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Panic
| | Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 09:06 am: | 
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And the answer is:
Because the prosecutor was either:
1. faced with a tough challenge in the next election, and needed to get his name on Page 1
2. indicted for official misconduct, and needed to get his name OFF Page 1
3. about to retire, and wanted to work for the PBA for 5 times as much money |
Buelluk
| | Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 11:20 am: |
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All I can say about this incident is that police are the same the world over, my idiot brother, a cop, chased a guy on a bike on a notoriously badly surfaced and twisty road in the UK.
The result - my brother wadded his patrol car into a brick wall and was thankfully unhurt , despite the fact that he knew the home address of the guy riding the bike.
Conclusion : we all make stupid decisions in the heat of the moment. |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 11:50 am: |
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Alan:
Any chance you could bring that tank to Homecoming?
I have an idea.
Be safe and THANK YOU!
Court |
Sanchez
| | Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 01:47 pm: |
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Heh. Notice the wording in the news article:
"He was killed Sunday night when his SUV crashed during a high-speed motorcycle pursuit."
You'd think from that sentence that the SUV just went off on its own and wrecked. It really ought to read more like this:
"He was killed Sunday night when he crashed his SUV during a high-speed motorcycle pursuit."
His death was tragic, and the motorcyclist was certainly in the wrong for running, but the officer made a conscious decision to pursue. He should bear full responsibility for his choice and for the consequences. |
Rokoneer
| | Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 07:52 pm: |
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According to news reports the motorcyclist charged in the NY case has stated that he knew the Trooper was behind him with his lights and siren on, but that there was another vehicle between his motorcycle and the Troopers Tahoe at all times and he thought the Trooper was pulling over that vehicle.
It should be noted that the motorcyclist 'supposedly' slowed to the posted speed limit of 30mph when he entered the town of Pompey. The Troopers vehicle was determined to be going 50mph in the same speed zone when it left the road and impacted the tree.
The motorcyclist did not have a motorcycle license and has had a number of prior arrests. His potential sentence could be 40 years. |
Sanchez
| | Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 08:03 pm: |
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Sounds like the guy could get hit with speeding, reckless driving, riding without a license, evading arrest, and all the other charges that usually go with fleeing from the police. If the state's story is true, I hope he never gets behind the wheel (or the handlebars) again. I don't think manslaughter really belongs in that list though. |
Ryker77
| | Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 08:44 pm: |
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Sanchez, have you note ever rode over the speed limit on your bike?
Because I often ride 10-20mph over the speed limit, if its not peak traffic or school bus time. So I look at it this way. I could have been that biker. |
Littlebuggles
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 04:07 am: |
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I think Sanchez's statement is a fair one. |
Sanchez
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 08:13 am: |
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> I could have been that biker.
You don't have a license, and you'd flee if an officer tried to pull you over??
I don't really buy that the guy was just speeding and the officer wrecked while trying to pull him over in a routine manner. It seems more likely that he really was running and the officer crashed out trying to pursue him. Does it make the biker a killer? I don't really think so, but it sure does make him someone who shouldn't be on the road.
The question of whether or not the biker was fleeing will probably be answered very quickly in court, assuming the officer's dash board camera footage was recovered. The big battle will be to determine the legal precedent of a manslaughter charge. |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 03:19 pm: |
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Jerry,
I agree, we don't know all the details. Excellent point. I wish the officer were still alive. It is a really sad unfortunate thing no matter who is to blame or what mitigating factors apply. Certainly if the motorcyclist had not been speeding or doing whatever it was he allegedly did to garner the officer's attention, the officer would likely still be alive.
Just one more reason to avoid that type of behavior, whatever it was.
I do hold to my view that any vehicle accurately described as an SUV should avoid if at all possible engaging in a high speed pursuit.
Again though, like you said, we don't have the facts. For all we know, the SUV may have gone out of control due to defective tires. We don't know.
Thanks for showing me the irresponsibility and rashness of my judgement. |
Jerry_haughton
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 04:03 pm: |
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thanks Blake, i appreciate your words.
FB |
Ryker77
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 07:23 pm: |
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I doubt the video tap picked up anything.. My guess was the car err 6000lbs SUV was too far out of range.
Thus the media request for drivers in the area at that time to come forward with tips about the biker.
So its hard to prove the cop was even close enough for the biker to have even been aware of the blue lights. Even so my guess would be he would have still ran. But thats not a legal judegment |
Midnightrider
| | Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 09:45 pm: |
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I am currently in central New York visiting friends. I lived there for a long time and still have several friends who are LEOs in different departments there(city, county, state). I was able to talk with some this weekend about the incident.
I haven't taken the time to read all the 100+ posts above, and I'm not here to reignite debate over what the biker did, should have done, or knew; or what the NY State Trooper did or should have done. Not even about whether any of us think the current law is just or not. And there is certainly a lot more details that will probably be made public as time goes on.
What I am here to tell you, especially if you ride in that area, is be careful and make sure you have your "stuff" together. You may be pulled over for any reason (like "1 mile per hour over" the posted speed limit - that's a quote) or even for a "routine" traffic stop. If you do get stopped you had better be prepared to prove you have MC on your license, your registration and inspection are current, and you have an up to date copy of the required insurance documentation. If there is anything on your machine that is borderline or might be "bending" the rules a little - you might want to address that too - or think about parking it for awhile.
Again - not trying to pour gas on the flames but at least one LEO told me their department is trying to send a message to ALL bikers. (Not sure exactly what that message is, though)
Anyway, forewarned is forearmed, eh? |
Panic
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 11:06 am: |
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"a "routine" traffic stop."
And it's been over 30 years, and cops still don't get it.
From SCOTUS, New York State Court of Appeals, NYS Commissioner of Criminal Justice Services, Commending Officer, NY State Police (longer list if you're not convinced): "There is no such thing as a 'routine traffic stop'. An officer may not detain a motorist, or any citizen, for purpose of inquiry without reasonable suspicion of criminal behavior, which must be clearly defined and articulated upon request". |
Jackbequick
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 12:45 pm: |
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The term "routine traffic stop" is about the procedures for doing the stop. It is, for example, a routine traffic stop as opposed to a felony traffic stop. Different procedures are used for different types of stops.
It does not mean that the officer does not have reasonable suspicions. If he intentionally makes a "bad" stop (no reasonable cause) he is a "bad" cop and should be punished for it.
Most of us here have never had a job that is as encumbering as being a police officer trying to apply the law fairly and evenly.
Jack |
Phat_j
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 07:09 pm: |
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"A few years ago I was on a ridealong with a CHP officer, and a motorcyclist blew through an intersection in front of us at an insane rate of speed. The officer just sat there for a few seconds, and then I asked him if he was going to get the guy. He said "I'd never catch him, his top speed's probably 170 or something and he's already a mile down the road." He recognized the big picture. "
so lemme ask ya....... if that chp didnt stop him and he wrecks and kills a kid in a cross walk down the road, is the cop at fault???? |
Midnightrider
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 07:29 pm: |
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sorry - i'm not LEO - "routine stop" was bad choice of words - I don't know what the right term is I was looking for a short way to describe ? a traffic check point? We (in NY) can roll up to a point in the road with multiple cars and multiple officers who check each vehicle for the display of current registration and state inspection (if registered in NY) - both are displayed on the windshield of your cage or usually the left fork of your bike
of course if they see you do a U-Turn before you get there........hmmm........ |
Ryker77
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 08:58 am: |
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Down in Georgia we have the routine insurance/DUI check points.
I actaully think they serve alot of good. People must have valid insurance if they want to drive a 3-6000lb car. I often think that what if instead of the old lady who cased my wreck was somebody without insurance. Myself and my family would have been $$$$ screwed! |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 11:34 am: |
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My First thought when I heard about the Trooper's crash was....
If that was me on the bike & I missed the crash, What would I feel if I got home after that ride & saw on tv that a trooper died?
That changes a good bar story into a massive guilt trip. In such a situation would you turn yourself in?
The road worthiness of SUV's and the skill level of the officer are, perhaps, worthy of question, but not argument. When I heard "SUV" on the news I also thought "that figures". ( not a kind thought, I admit )
The ongoing media rant against SUV's, affects even a cynic like myself. When the news reports accidents as though the vehicle, not the driver, is at fault, it is the same kind of wrong logic that blames the gun, not the criminal, or the country, not the dictator. In the case of SUV's it seems like deliberate propaganda. ( I think SUV's suck because they can be irresponsible wasters of resources, envy, and the notoriously bad handling. I STILL support your right to buy one. Choice, Freedom, what ever, I do reserve the right to laugh at you. )
The unanswered question is did the rider know he left a crash behind. I'm not sure that really changes the moral issue. |
Ghostrider
| | Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 11:46 am: |
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I have yet to see anything in this thread that shows whether the trooper had his dashboard camera going. Any word on that? Isn't it pretty standard for those to be operating when the lights and sirens come on? I'm sure that video would shed some light on the unknown aspects of this case. |
Midnightrider
| | Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 01:10 pm: |
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Suspect’s Lawyer Says Defendant Didn’t Know He Was Being Pursued
Last Update: 5/1/2006 10:44:24 PM
This story is available on your cell phone at mobile.9wsyr.com
(WSYR-TV) - Investigators say James Carncross of Jamesville was the motorcyclist State Trooper Todeschini was chasing when his SUV crashed, and Todeschini was killed. Carncross signed a statement telling police he knew he was the one that Todeschini was chasing. However Carncross’ attorney says his client had no idea he was the one being pursued.
Emotions are high surrounding the investigation into the crash that killed Trooper Craig Todeschini, but the lawyer for the man accused of killing him says emotions must not overshadow the evidence. David Savlov has not seen all of the evidence, but he says his client, James Carncross, insists on one thing: he did not know the trooper was chasing him.
“He was riding his motorcycle, there were a couple of cars behind him, behind those two cars, he saw a police vehicle with lights flashing. And frankly, he didn’t know if it was for him, or any other motorists in the area,” David Savlov told our Alyson Megur on Monday.
Carncross didn’t wait to find out, and took off for home. Savlov says Trooper Todeschini crashed about 6 to 7 miles from where Carncross last remembers seeing him.
“The police officer wasn’t really chasing my client. He was looking for him because I don’t believe the trooper saw my client for six or seven miles before the crash occurred,” Savlov said.
Savlov says it wasn’t until he heard about the crash later that night that Carncross realized he might have been the one being chased. Savlov says many may argue Carncross should have pulled over anyway, but that still doesn’t make him responsible for Trooper Todeschini’s death.
“It’s my client’s conduct that is alleged to have caused the trooper’s death. I supposed the dfense could be, it’s the trooper’s conduct that caused his death,” Savlov said.
Savlov says he will explore that possibility through speed and road conditions, and all of the other evidence against his client.
“Frankly I think it’s overreaching to charge him with these two charges. But the DA feels otherwise, and that’s why we’re here,” Savlov said.
from another article
Prosecutor Joanne Michaels noted in court that Carncross told police he was "trying to make it home without getting caught by the trooper."
(Message edited by midnightrider on May 13, 2006) |
Naustin
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 04:38 pm: |
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Ok, so a guy breaks into a store to rob the cash register and sets off a silent alarm.
Police dispatch an officer, who is doing 20+ the speed LIMIT when he wrecks his bloated SUV and is killed on the way to catch the crook.
Is the robber guilty of manslaughter?
I don't think so....
There is a cop who lives 3 blocks from me. 3 or 4 times now he's gone by my house doing 20+ (at least) the 30mph limit with lights and sirens, only to turn them off a block later and then proceed 1 more block and pull into his own driveway. I'd file a complaint but I'm afraid they would start hassling me or something.
I say if the SOBs wanna drive like that, its nobody's fault but their own when they crash. Its like the ambulance driver with the geriatric stroke victim that blows a traffic light and t-bones a school bus.... Way to go, idiot.
I think all police should be held to a higher standard.
I say the Cop's estate should be responsible for the replacement of the SUV. Why should the tax payers be responsible for HIS reckless driving?!
PS, A state Trooper in Minnesota recently RAN OVER a motorcyclist, Killing HIM because he - "didn't see the bike". The Officer was on duty in a marked car and NOT pursuing anyone... |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 06:03 pm: |
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Today I heard on the radio that the troopers family is in Albany trying to make fleeing from police a FELONY in NY.
Be wary in the Imperial state. |
Naustin
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 07:33 pm: |
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Fleeing should be a felony in every state! But, The police should never engage in highspeed chases. If there were harsher penalties for fleeing, they wouldn't have to. People who flee the police should lose their licence to drive Forever and then also be locked up for whatever appropriate sentence depending on WHY they fled.
That said, the public was way more endangered by the speeding SUV police vehicle than the Speeding motorcycle. |
Jackbequick
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 08:36 pm: |
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If the police did not pursue, the first thing the criminals would do is flee. It would be an automatic reaction. There is no simple or easy solution to the high speed pursuit thing.
I'd like to think that if you could get air assets with eyes on the fleeing vehicle, that high speed pursuit would be unnecessary. But that won't work everywhere.
And take it off the television! Don't ever again televise a hot pursuit. That will help.
Jack |
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