| Author | Message | ||
     Ryker77 |
Just was curious if/when the gas/ethanol mixture is sold. Will it have a higher octane rating? I don't know how they could lower the octane.. And yes I know ethanol has less BTU -less MPG and less horsepower. Just curious about octane. | ||
| Biker_bob |
From what I read 91 and up octane gas not effected. So it shouldn't matter to us. YMMV | ||
| Blackbelt |
Accually The E85 mixture INCREASES HP. but decreases MPG. if you look on most new car stickers it reads the MPG rating for E85. There are sparse stations around detroit and flint that already have E85. | ||
| Jkhawaii |
if the gas companys added ethanol a gas formulated to 93oct then the octane would go up. but I am sure the gas company's reformulate the fuel so the octane remains the same. ethanol is something like 30% oxygen so it burns cleaner and makes more power than gasoline, but also requires more of it to burn | ||
| Iamike |
In Iowa the regular gas is 87 octane, ethanol is 89 and some stations carry 92 that is also 10% ethanol. Very few have offered 85% ethanol (E85) yet but it is becoming more popular. You shouldn't use E85 unless your vehicle is designed for it. I have been using the 10% ethanol in all of my vhecles since it has been offered. The only time I had a problem was when I first put it in a vehicle that hadn't used it before. Due to its solvent quality some of the varnish that had built up in the fuel system clogged the filter. New filter-no more problems. | ||
| Ryker77 |
"Accually The E85 mixture INCREASES HP. but decreases MPG. if you look on most new car stickers it reads the MPG rating for E85. " Not true. Ethanol has less BTU's per gallon. BTU's is the thermal measurement of energy when burned. Just like diesel has more BTU's that gas. Thus diesel's get better mpg and make lots of torque. Also why biodiesel gets lets mpgs than dino diesel fuel,, since b100 has less BTU's. I was just curious because my bike has really high compression -- I have to run 93 plus off road octane booster. | ||
| Jkhawaii |
race cars make more power on methanol and ethanol | ||
| Jlnance |
Thus diesel's get better mpg and make lots of torque. I think it's the compression ratio, not the fuel, that gives Diesel those qualities. | ||
| Biker_bob |
Here's the facts from the E85 website. More hp less gas mileage.. DON'T use it in your motorcycle the rubber and plastic parts can't take it. Only FFV vehicles are set up for it. What is the range of a flexible fuel vehicle? Response: Ethanol has less energy content than gasoline. However, E85 also has a much higher octane (ranging from 100 to 105) than gasoline. FFVs are not optimized to E85, so they experience a 10-15% drop in fuel economy. This will vary based on the way one drives, the air pressure in the tires, and additional driving conditions.. For comparison purposes, aggressive driving habits can result in a 20% loss and low tire pressure can reduce mileage by 6%. Research indicates Ford FFVs experience a 5% horsepower gain on E85. The range of any particular vehicle is dependent on the size of the fuel tank and driving habits. Current Ford Taurus FFVs have an 18-gallon fuel tank and will normally travel 350 miles between refuelings. | ||
| Court |
We, as a nation, are not ready for alternative fuels yet. But, we will be soon. Gas will be $5.00 per gallon next year and, at that level, the economic incentive, now absent, will be there to make the leap to "practical use" for some of the current fuels that are suitable for only tree huggers. My wife and I have both purchased new cars in the last 3 weeks. I commented that I am confident they will be our last gas fueled cars. Court | ||
| Lord_deathscyte |
Court, Unless u plan to drive those cars another 7-10 years. I think you will be buying another gas powered car. Until Lithium-polymer batteries come down in price it will be hard to make an electric vehicle that can perform on day to day bases. Bio-diesels just plan smell bad....the person who tells u that they smell like Mcdonalds fries is lieing. Hydrogen fuel cells still cost to much to drive...my numbers on this are a bit old(2003) but back then it cost $400 to fill a car that could travel 400 miles and that car had an aluminum frame. I know there are other combinations of fuels out there but these are the most common cars that are made and talked about at alternative fuel conferences(been a while since I was at one) Mark | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Buy a Diesel, buy a farm, grow your own biodiesel. There, simple, you telling me the US isn't big enough to do this? Hell even the farmers here a forming co-ops to produce the fuel for their tractors. The supermarkets regularly sell out of cheap cooking oil as it's cheaper than diesel! On a 50/50 mix, only difference you'll notice is the smell! Oh, & the fine if the customs boys catch you.  | ||
| Court |
IT may be 10 years, but the first step is going to be getting the American public conditioned to higher prices. Folks didn't smoke less when cigarettes hit $8.00 in NYC, I'll bet, regardless of what they say, they will grumble and drive just as much. We just bought a pair of gas guzzlers. Call me old fashioned but as a "child of the muscle car era", I like my 300HP. I am going to be eager to watch the development. There certainly are a number if viable alternatives, be fun to see which emerges. | ||
| Ryker77 |
I run 100% Biodiesel in both of my VW cars. In my area b100 cost 2.37 a gallon thus its 40-50 cents cheaper than dino fuel. Diesel fuel has a much higher BTU rating thus they have more enegery per gallon. I am not goining to attempt to discuss the pros and cons of alt fuels. Too much fake, false, lies and misinformation. Even this months issue of Popular Mechanics has alot of wrong information. | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
Well, over this side of the pond we've had to get used to the high fuel prices. I believe the UK has around the highest priced road fuel in the world. Recently the price has risen to just less than £1.00 per litre. (About $1.75 per litre). The UK gallon is larger than the US Gallon (4.5 v 4.0 litres) and we've got used to driving Diesel cars. My last gas powered car was bought in 1988. Since then I've had all Diesels. Presently I have a 2.5 Ltr V6 160 bhp Turbo Diesel that returns around 46-49 miles per gallon and a 1.9 Ltr 130 bhp Turbo Diesel that returns about 49-52 Miles Per Gallon. I think more than 50% of the new car market in the UK is Diesel Powered. I suppose that given the poor miles per gallon of the typical American V8 SUV, I suppose our pence (cents) per mile figures are not so different as the fuel price difference alone would suggest! | ||
| Aesquire |
When you use a nuclear reactor to make the heat to make the booze, you have a sustainable setup, not till then. (assuming breeder reactors & a complete & reasonably secure fuel cycle. Fusion is still 40 years off, and has been for at least 40 years. ) Electric cars need Nuclear to be a rational choice. The conversion efficiencies from coal to wire to car are not good. Coal fired cars are worse polluters than gasoline ones. Many of the new power plants use natural gas. Cheaper plants, cheaper to clean up, & who cares if people can afford to heat their houses, if short term profits are better than coal? Not the kind of guys that ran Enron. We still burn too much fossil fuel to make alcohol for it to be more than a propaganda tool, or farm subsidy. What, I wonder aloud, is the problem with methanol for fuel? ( someone here knows, & I'm lazy tonight ) | ||
| P0p0k0pf |
Technically, fusion has always been available in the form of solar radiation. We have had the power to harness it since Ohl invented the solar cell in the 40s. I've though off and on about buying a compact project car (old mini or similar)and using an array of DC golf cart motors, batteries, and a small diesel generator to recharge on the go... Rather than mounting solar panels to the roof of my car, if I could plug into a power supply at work (solar panels) I could also accumulate some energy for the drive home. I would love to see more solar-power innovation in the world, since it is already a proven technology. Heck, as the smog disappears, everyone will get a free horsepower upgrade! | ||
| Xgecko |
a big problem with the E85 movement is that all the Ethanol must be trucked/trained to the refinery for mixxing. This is because it gets contaminated by water in a pipeline and the Jones Act (don't get me started on that) elimiates a large number of barges/ships that can transport ethanol because of flag of origin. Trucking ethanol isn't very cost effective, rail travel is better but neither the cars (to fill with ethanol) nor the storage (for the required number of cars) exists at present and in some places (such as California) it will be really hard to find/build such storage. Now I'm a big fan of Diesel and Biodiesel in particular but BIO has it's own issues, most noteably it gels at low temp and is rendered useless. There is also the problem of algee growth in the fuel though this is a lesser problem. ULSD will bring USA diesel's to a much lower polution level; ULSD was required in 06 but that has been slow in reaching the market. The big problem with this is that the EPA has polution limits for new diesel vehicles that take effect in 07 thich cannot be met without ULSD. So far the 07 limits haven't changes but we are still being sold LSD and will continue to be sold it for the forseable future. Bio is all but unknown in the Northeast (strange that the bastion for liberals wouldn't have more treehugging fuels present) and it has the most expensive Diesel that I've seen ($3.17 more than High test in many locals). Of course the whole anti-diesel stance of the US government is what I find more sad than anything. | ||
| Ryker77 |
BioDiesel can be used at 100% mixture down to 30-35 degree's. Any colder temps require a mixture of dino fuel and Bio fuel. I run B100 nearly year round in Georgia. In the winter during cold spells I'll just top off with dino fuel. I can get b100 for 2.57 a gallon. Most of the time its 20-40 cents cheaper. But at 100% strength I take a loss in MPG. So the gain is I have a cleaner engine and don't support the Arabs. | ||
| Xgecko |
30-35 degree's pretty much counts out 75% of the nation for use of Bio...that's Ok since D2 gells at the same temp which is why the oil industry puts soo much straight Petro-Diesel in the mix during the winter. Straight Petro has a really really low Cetane rating meaning that your fuel milage in the winter goes into the toilet. OK a bit more of my EPA rant...no new (or for that matter most if not all existing) diesel engines can be approved for 07 yet since most can't make the emmisions requirements without ULSD and yet you can't get it in the States. The EPA won't approve other methods of reaching the emmission levels such as Urea injection (BlueTec) unless the manufacturer installs a dangerous failsafe that will place the vehical in feeble/wimp mode if the urea run out. Sadly Diamly Chrysler will be selling diesels everywhere but the USA not even the new hot selling Liberty CRD looks like it's gonna be for sale in the states again until 08 when the EPA gets around to doing their job. of course the worst offenders for diesel is the state of Kalifornia where a gas guzzling Hummer H1 can be bought but new CRD's and TDI's can't because CARB doesn't allow for such a thing as a Clean Diesel. I wonder what's gonna happen when DC, Ford or GM makes a Diesel Hybrid? Because diesel is a much better motor for hybrid use than gasoline. | ||
| Ryker77 |
I fully agree. In Europe there is a HUGE selection of cars that get above 40mpg with ample power. A few smaller mini type cars still have good power and get above 60mpg's. The average American MPG is 20.. DOWN 4 mpgs since the 1980's. That is sad that we have allowed this to happen. Government has allowed the lower standards and the people have bought larger cars. --WHich is why I sorta like seeing the high fuel prices. | ||
| Iamike |
Be careful what you wish the government to do. It wouldn't take but another liberal administration (a la Joan Claybrook) to decide for our own good that motorcycles are unsafe. Then whammo - we are outlawed. Don't belive it? Just ask the smokers, the dirtbikers & atvs. We are much better off without our government trying to live our lives for us. I hate the Hummers, Escalades and other gas hogs as much as the next person, but at least we have the right to buy one. I work with a bunch of guys that drive huge pickups to work every day yet vote for the party that is against that type of activity - go figure. | ||
| Xgecko |
my point was while it's legal to buy those gas hogs it's not legal to buy a fuel efficient Diesel vehicle in some states Kalifornia, New York, and I think Massachusettes to name a few. There is also the EPA'a obsession with Nitrogen emmissions though from all that I have read the evidence that it's harmfull (in any way) is dubious at best (hence the reason Europe doesn't care any more). Europe (and most other countries) promote public transport, train systems ,gas effeciency and motorcycles as part of their overall people moving plan. The USA??? can't even plan enough parking lots!!!!! | ||
| Aesquire |
My GS1100E had a Joan Claybrook 85 mph speedometer. What a joke! I predicted, ( correctly, but don't have the data any more, moves do that ) that the death rate to auto accidents would increase, with the '85' gauges. Reason? Back in that day, "pegging the speedo" was a rare thing. Many cars in the crappy 70's & 80's were so bogged down by new & add on pollution gear that 120 was not going to happen. Suddenly, with a 55 straight up speedo, ( not just a bad idea, it's the law! ) most cars could "peg the speedo" and after you exceed the indicated speed, how do you know your stopping distance? Especially with the new teenage drivers who don't have a fund of experience to draw on in guessing speed & clearance. I'm debating a diesel Jeep. Here in Imperial New York, pricey fuel make it iffy. Diesels are the best engine for a hybrid. The era of cheap/free biodiesel is going to be fleeting. As soon as some one figures out how to make money on it, KFC etc. will quit giving away grease. | ||
| Diablobrian |
I personally love the fact so many politicians have spent a bunch of money on converting public busses from diesel to CNG to get rid of the polution. Of course they are so busy patting themselves on the back that they don't have time to find out that the carbon in the diesel exhaust while ugly is no where near as bad for the environment as gasoline fumes. This same thinking is why they have banned the more efficient diesel powered cars. They figure why allow them when they got such good press out of converting the busses. | ||
| Aesquire |
How far can you drive on a bushel of corn? Crunching the numbers on alternative fuels. Popular Mechanics. http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/earth/2690341.html?page=1&c=y See the pdf file at http://media.popularmechanics.com/documents/Fuel_of_the_Future-e852.pdf | ||
| Ryker77 |
PopularMechanics article has several items of wrong information. In general its a good article. But for those with some GT we can spot the wrong info. They list b100 as 3.50 a gallon. I've never paid more than 2.57. Always 20-40cents cheaper than dino fuel. |
