| Author |
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Sandblast
| | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 09:32 am: | 
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I am sure there are a relatively small amount of Mexican citizens who, like your in-laws, travel back and forth and benefit both economies. And by the way I hope you did not take offense to my post above, this morning it looks a little ruder than it did yesterday. Sorry if you did.
The problem is that, while it may not be 100% a one way street, for the most part it is. Have you been to Santa Ana or parts of San Diego lately (I dont know where you live). There are signs everywhere (mostly in spanish) advertising cheap money transfers to Mexico. I'll go out on a limb and say a huge portion of that money is earned here illegally by people who reject our language and main stream culture, sent home to Mexico, and never sees an American business again. And we are talking a pretty penny too. Thats not even taking into account things like our state resources being strained by non-citizens. There are always exceptions (like your family) to the rule, but the standard is pretty bleak right now. |
Bake
| | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 09:33 am: |
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Tim, I think you have to beleive in your causes but know how to pick your battles.
I'm in for a boycott until justice is served!! |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 11:13 am: |
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It is very easy for SOCAL folks to see what Mexico is really like, as its illegal citizens line our streets.
Hey, if Mexico was such as swell place, why would its residents literally risk dying so that they can come pick our strawberries?
And of course, the Mexican govt will NEVER do anything about it unless something hits them where it hurts, ie, in the pocketbook.
I am all for boycotting Mexico, if I only knew what the h.. they actually export here.
As for actually visting Mexico, well, I would forget it. Not worth the risk and you can get the same feel by visiting El Cajon!
(Message edited by brucelee on March 18, 2006) |
Oldog
| | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 12:56 pm: |
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Mexico is exporting to the US a number of things
1. electronics
2. building materials
3. raw materials
4. cheap labor
5. machine parts
It is patently unfair to label the mexican people because of this regrettable incident
BUT
I AGREE WITH THE IDEA THAT IF CITIZENS OF THE US VISIT THERE AND ARE HARMED,
AND THAT THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT FAILS TO DEAL WITH THE PROBLEM
THEN OUR CITIZENS SHOULD AVOID THE AREA OR IF NEED BE THE COUNTRY.
When Tim posted the original incident I said then and a re-interate
"Get them by the wallet the mind WILL follow"
Publicizing(sp) the incident and Tims' story will get their attention and may be
spark some positive action from the authorities there
Tim, I hope that things will continue to improve. |
Curtyd
| | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 02:42 pm: |
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The unpleasant exchanges that follow the expression of political ideas not viewed as "right" to the powers that be here and others who frequent BADWEB is what led me to abandon this site for the better part of a year. This even though I am a very active BUELL enthusiast. I have related my Mexican experience. Since even that provokes again the common and oftentimes vile and bigoted responses, I will do my best to stay on topic in the motorcycle areas and avoid these political mine fields. I WILL TRY.... |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 04:03 pm: |
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I don't think there is anything political about this thread. Fact is, Mexico is a very dangerous place to visit, and by report, the police and legal system are as corrupt as the criminals they are supposed to deal with.
If saying that makes anyone a bigot, then we need to revisit the definition of the word. |
Bake
| | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 07:31 pm: |
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I should elaborate, maybe boycott isn't the term. What I meant was "I won't be going there as a tourist till..." |
Curtyd
| | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 08:04 pm: |
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OK, I'll bite, but just this time.
"I don't think there is anything political about this thread."... Let's go to the record.
"the police and legal system are as corrupt as the criminals " "I am all for boycotting Mexico, if I only knew what the h.. they actually export here." "the Mexican govt will NEVER do anything about it " "I'll go out on a limb and say a huge portion of that money is earned here illegally by people who reject our language and main stream culture, sent home to Mexico, and never sees an American business again." "Thats not even taking into account things like our state resources being strained by non-citizens." No need to revisit the definition of political, these quotes just about hit the nail on the head.
Let's visit the definition of bigot and vile...
"As for actually visting Mexico...Not worth the risk and you can get the same feel by visiting El Cajon!" "It is very easy for SOCAL folks to see what Mexico is really like, as its illegal citizens line our streets." "BOYCOTT MEXICO. the seething cesspool of poverty stricken decay and debauchery" "UH...You need a town in Mexico burned? " "I am sure there are a relatively small amount of Mexican citizens who, like your in-laws, travel back and forth and benefit both economies." The last is pure bias to state my family must be a small example of the legal citizenry of a whole country.
Yes, Mexico is poor by our standards, but you know what my first hand impression was? We have comparable examples of the same level of poverty in this country from NY to LA to Mississippi, Alabama or Chicago. Didn't seem that much poorer than our shining examples here, maybe a bit more widespread, but still had shopping districts, Wal-Marts, a burgeoning middle class of families raising their children, going to work and strolling in the parks and city squares, a deep catholic faith. Crowded, sure, Mexico City is the largest city in the world. Ever read the crime beat in NYC? Murder and rapes don't even make the papers they are so frequent, it takes something sensational about the crime to even get reported.
Illegal immigration? Heck the "governator" is out there in the Republic of Calif with his right wing allies. George W. and Co. control Washington, and all the halls of gov't there now, why don't you right wingers start solving some of these problems, instead of just promoting the same old hate filled speech? (as hard as it may be try staying within the bluprint of our great country, the U.S. Constitution, although with "the black-robed packed NINE", I guess we know which way all the referee calls will be going) |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 08:09 pm: |
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well, you certainly brought politics into the discussion but I did not.
I don't have an issue with Mexico being poor just corrupt and dangerous.
I don't have any issues with legal immigrants from any source.
I have an issue with illegal criminal immigrants from everywhere.
This is the rule of law, not politics, nor bigotry.
YOUR point is what? |
Curtyd
| | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 08:58 pm: |
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Aren't you the one who advised Rocket-something on another thread that his credibilty can never rise, if he never can admit he was wrong?
You said this thread wasn't political. Political isn't just about yelling out about republicans or democrats. It's simply opinions on social issues. I cut and pasted from this thread to show all these various opinions be bantered about, that's political. Throughout the thread, opinions were bantered about on the Mexican nation and people based on opinions of illegal immigration here. That's bias and the clearest example of bigotry I noticed here.
Mexicans didn't just start coming to Calif., you know. California was Mexico, remember? Did they miss that point in the immigration exam?
And finally I said everyone complains, but then asked now that the right wingers are the party in power when are you going to stop bitching and start solving some problems? That's a call to action and not the only political opinion being propounded here.
You say the Rule of Law like it is an abstract that functions outside this steaming mass of society, not true, never has been. It's an integral part of our day to day lives, that's why cases to be heard require partys, i.e. people to bring disputes before our courts.
Criminals are prosecuted by a person in the name of the State and that person has a vast amount of power and discretion over every outcome even in our society. Lady Justice is neither blind or even-handed, at least not at the lowest levels where 99.999% of all persons end up interacting with her. So we might not be so quick to judge the corruptness of even Mexico,until we look squarely at how our system prosecutes our members in it's own way. Want justice in a criminal or civil matter, how deep are your pockets? |
Bluzm2
| | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 09:12 pm: |
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Curtyd,
You are defending the indefeseable.
If there aren't problems with vistors to Mexico (Mexico city, Iratuato, etc. etc.) why do we have to hire armed guards to escort us to and from our business locations and "safe" hotels?
The government of Mexcico is just plain corrupt!
When you have to bribe local officals just to get anything done it shows its rotten from top to bottom.
The rape and resulting inaction by government officials only reinforces what I have personally experienced.
You are way off base... |
Skyguy
| | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 09:19 pm: |
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Ummmmm Guys,
This thread is about a really terrible thing that happened to one of our own and his wife.
I would be all for dragging the piece of crap out of the town jail in ANY country and setting him on fire.
However, as Blake pointed out to me. This s not a good forum for politics. |
Curtyd
| | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 09:28 pm: |
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My point is it's their problem and system not ours. We have our own problems, crime, corruption, etc. This thread starts off asking to write off an entire country because of this bad experience of one person. Do you think every visitor to this country who was a crime victim here has had their cases successfully prosecuted?
Sure, I understand there are systemic problems in Mexico, but who knows in 50 years what it will be like then? Look back 20, 30, 40 or 50 years back in our country, pretty darn corrupt then on every stage. They are at a different point in their democratic history is one point I am making. Fox was different for them down there, first time in 100 years. I have been there a few times in the last years from the inside with Mexicans, it's been truly a pleasure. No armed guards either.
(Message edited by CurtyD on March 19, 2006) |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 10:48 pm: |
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Oh blah de, oh blah dah.
Curt,
Illegal immigration is well, illegal. Legal immigration is legal.
Can you dig it!
YOU brought up political parties, not me.
YOU brought up bias, not me.
I have no issues with legal immigrants. PERIOD.
Illegal immigrants are criminals, by definition.
Can you dig it?
Mexico's government and police are totally corrupt. If you would like to chat with some of my former Mexican buds here in San Diego, I can hook you up.
Get your head out of the clouds. Some issue ARE black and white. |
Curtyd
| | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 07:22 am: |
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Look, here is my point, my experience of Mexico is nothing like all of what has been bantered about here, heck my wife and 2 y/o daughter travel there without me at times, my 80 y/o mother and brother and sister and their spouses all came there to celebrate my daughter's chistianing and were safe and happy.
Plenty of folks around the world don't care for our GOVT very much either you know.
This was a crime in another country. Apparently for the moment the criminal is in jail, but also the laws down there are different, even if prosecuted successfully, no way will he punished there like he would be here, probably not in the UK, Canada, or Western Europe either. Most other countries don't imprison it's citizens at the frequency and longevity that we do.
I always try to look at both sides of an issue and in this case I have actual experiences to draw on, my wife's family and my own. If you or anyone is not comfortable in a foreign country anywhere then you don't have to travel there. I am comfortable in Mexico and all my experiences, so far, have been nothing but positive.
I ask you this question again, do you think judges and prosecutors in Chicago, New York or New Orleans were any less corrupt here 75 to 100 years ago? Democracy has to evolve from within it cannot be imposed from without, they are pretty young politically in the whole scheme of that consideration.
Don't go there, most Americans call so much attention to themselves anyhow every time they travel abroad, it's no wonder they have criminals noticing and responding to them. Plenty of other tourists never have any problems or accept that is the other countries system and deal with it anyhow.
Don't you read these accounts from moto tourists, there are significant problems every time they cross from one boundary to another, but in most cases they find the people an actual charm. When was the last time an American village or family took a stranger travelling thru on a motorcycle into their hearts and homes for a a time, just because he was a stranger on a motorcycle?
I wrote about legal mexican tourists and asked if the BOYCOTT proposal was going to apply to them and then several posters, including BruceLee referenced illegal immigration and I addressed it briefly. Whenever Mexico is the topic it's always about the illegal Mexicans in the USA. Actually had nothing to do with this issue, this Mexican was in in his country. That's BIAS, that's BIGOTRY.
(Message edited by CurtyD on March 19, 2006)
(Message edited by CurtyD on March 19, 2006) |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 09:44 am: |
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"That's BIAS, that's BIGOTRY."
Always lead with this charge, no?
I will say it again; if Mexico is such a swell place, why are millions risking their lives each year to sneak into the US illegally?
I don't see it working in reverse.
Any questions?
Now, on with the boycott! |
Curtyd
| | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 10:39 am: |
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Mexico is Mexico, it is what it is. Illegal immigration is our problem, not theirs, and what does is it have one WHIT to do with the issues raised in this thread?
My own daughter is, by definition and intent, a mexican-american, born of a USA citizen and a legal immigrant, I take bigoted comments about her heritage and country very personally and choose to expose them here in this venue.
Any questions? |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 10:46 am: |
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Pretty sure that BadWeB is nearly as diverse as America. Derisive political partisanship is sucky. Best not to play that card here. We've learned well that it does not serve any good. It serves only to bring the tenor of the board down to an unfortunate level, makes for lots of hard feelings, it's just sucky all the way around.
Two of my good friends and classmates at SMU, a pseudo neuvo-ivy-league wanna-be university in Dallas, Texas, were Mexican. One was a room mate my Sophomore year. He used to tell me stories of having to pay off corrupt police. Oton Velez.
Pretty sure their is rampant corruption there. That Misato has to hire an attorney and pay what I would call extortion in order to try to see justice served against a brutal rapist pretty much says it all for me.
Yes there are plenty of great folks in/from Mexico. I've visited tourist areas there for more than a week on two occasions, once in 1982 and once in 1985. That darn Montezuma had his revenge on me both times.
Don't forget from who we basically stole most of the Southwestern United States of America. I might feel a bit entitled to walk across the border had the situation been on the other foot.
It is a problem that needs a solution. I'm disappointed that political partisanship seems to prevent one.
Hang in there Misato. Be strong, and keep figthting the good fight. There is no real alternative at this point. Let us know if we can help. You have my sincere admiration. |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 10:53 am: |
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, "I take bigoted comments about her heritage and country very personally and choose to expose them here in this venue. "
Ah, playing the bigot card. I don't recall questioning anyone's "heritage" however you may want to define it.
I stand by my comments on Mexico as a corrupt and lawless country. And, you haven't addressed the essential question, if Mexico is such a swell place, why are the millions sneaking across the border to ILLEGALLY enter the US?
hmmmm,
Anyway, let the boycott begin.
PS-I welcome all legal immigrants from wherever. |
Ducxl
| | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 12:01 pm: |
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I think we need another "General Pershing" and this time annex Mexico.Then there will be no more Illegal immigrants. |
Ricky
| | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 12:01 pm: |
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Anyway, let the boycott begin.
NOOOOOOOooooooooo......
What would happen to the Tequila?  |
Skyguy
| | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 12:43 pm: |
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Okay My two cents are coming so ya better duck!
My Aunt is a legal immigrant from Mexico. She does not support illegal immigration. Nor do I. However, it is a difficult issue. If I was poor and uneducated I would be running for "El Norte".
I have spent a lot of time in the Baja and I can safely say I have had nothing but wonderful experiences with the Mexican people. Despite going through many checkpoints with a 20 dollar bill in the glove box it was there upon my return.
There is no denying that there is a "culture" of corruption amongst many of the powers that be. I think we suffer the same level of corruption here in the U.S. one just needs to look to the inner workings our current political system and the number of no bid contracts being awarded to "friends of the administration". Corruption happens in EVERY country.
I was once set upon in my sleep by two backwoods Georgia cops rotweillers. I was riding my bicycle across the U.S. and had long hair. I barely escaped with my life and managed to make it to the front lawn of a small hospital the next morning and passed out. I was very torn up. The hospital staff patched me up and smuggled me and my bicycle 150 miles away. They paid for three weeks of hotel and gave me a ton of meds. Seems I was not the first "hippy" this had happened to. They said I was lucky as some people had died. Bad things can happen to people in ANY country.
Misato is having to go through hell to get justice. I am in awe of his ability to try to use the legal system at all. Personally I would drop the charges and be waiting for the SOB to walk out the door. He would pay a price that would take hours if not days to exact.
Stay strong Misato. |
Smoky
| | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 01:14 pm: |
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Last year, just after christmas,I trailered my bike from Canada to Tuscon, my wife and I then rode into Mexico for a 26 day, 7000 km. journey.
We had a wonderful time, never feared for our safety, and went whenever and where-ever we cared.
When telling my travel plans to friends, many were concerned about how we would get through the States and safely into Mexico. For many there was a greater fear of trouble in America, than our travels through Mexico.
However, I have travelled long and far in America, and always had a great time, and seldom had concerns about safety.
Where ever I travel, I usually do my best to avoid large cities.
My 2 cents. |
Oldog
| | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 01:32 pm: |
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It's sad that we are bickering over the words and ideas here, when one of our own has had trouble and is suffering,
This thread was about Misato's problem and could we offer encouragement, help, or advice.
I have to admire him for sticking it out as Blake put it so well above,
There is no denying that there is a "culture" of corruption amongst many of the powers that be. I think we suffer the same level of corruption here in the U.S. one just needs to look to the inner workings our current political system and the number of no bid contracts being awarded to "friends of the administration". Corruption happens in EVERY country. Sky well said my friend.. |
Misato
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 01:30 pm: |
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so I got the site.. now I just have to build it. I'm just going to put what happened and what its taken to get this far. If nothing else it might help someone be aware of what can happen, in mexico or any other country.
http://rapeincabo.com |
Lake_bueller
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 01:50 pm: |
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Misato....first let me say that I hope you eventual get the justice you deserve.
Secondly...because of your fiances experience, I have imposed a boycott on Mexican vacations in my household. My wife has been begging me to take her on a beach vacation. She really wanted to go to Cabo. No f'in way that's happening!!!
We settled on Negril, Jamaica. Besides...the music is much better |
Skyguy
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 02:19 pm: |
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Lake Bueller, Send a copy of your post and a link to Misatos web page to both the Goverment in Cabo and the Bureau of Tourism in Mexico.
I will make up an email and send it as well.
the Mexican Goverment gets really pissy about anything that hurts tourism. |
Misato
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 06:44 pm: |
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so this is what I have so far..
suggestions?
I know I still have alot more work to do on it...
http://www.rapeincabo.com/
updated site again..
(Message edited by misato on March 21, 2006) |
Buellgirlie
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 01:20 am: |
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misato - you and your girlfriend remain in my thoughts and prayers. stay strong.
D |
Lovematt
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 09:41 am: |
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Misato,
I am sorry you are going through this but try your best to remain calm and think smart about things as they come up.
I would say take your time updating the site...give yourself time away from looking at it and have a fresher look at it after a few days. I do a lot of this kind of stuff and it works for me.
All I can say is look at the big picture, revel in the fact that you are getting married, and you are with someone you care about very much...that is a rare thing.
Over time I hope you will be able to move on or at least greatly minimize your struggles so you can starting living again. |
Lovematt
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 09:56 am: |
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Oh yeah...I agree with what was said about the dreams...let the person go through it on their own baring any physical damage they may do to themselves.
I have some experience with this. The best analogy I can think of is it is like a book that you really want to get to the end but you also want to read the entire book. If you don't get a chance to read through the whole thing you don't reach the ending to come up with some kind of conclusion and move on... |
Buellbozo
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 11:07 am: |
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Misato,
I too have kept you and your lady in my prayers. I know from personal experience the
pain and heartache that come with loving a woman who has been traumatized. Sometimes though, the toughest row to hoe yields the sweetest crop. I hope that turns out to be the case for you and yours.
I offer the following just as food for thought- not for debate or argument.
RIGHT HERE IN THE USA...
A man was arrested and taken to the Harrison County jail.Biloxi-Gulfport. He was tied to a restraint chair, beaten,had a bag placed over his head and pepper sprayed, had a Taser repeatedly held to his body and discharged,and was beaten some more. He was transported to the hospital in a coma and died two days later. The coroner said he died from blunt force trauma and ruled the death a homicide. The coroner also found no trace of drugs in the victim.
The entire episode was recorded on video tape.It happened last month.
The deputy that administered the beating is not only free today, he hasnt even been charged, nor has the District Attorney sent the case to the grand jury.Why not?
He's the son of a local retired judge.
So Badwebbers,stay out of South Mississippi. Don't come to the casinos and spend your money.Sheriff George Payne and his thugs have their own little Cabo right here in the USA.
I havnt mentioned the ethnicity of the parties involved. You can guess, and you'll be right.Please go to the Sun Herald web site if you'd like corroboration of what I've just related.
Also, this devastated area is being rebuilt by illegal Mexican laborers that work for Halliburton subcontractors and we're grateful for them.
Peace. |
Bomber
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 11:38 am: |
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lots of research on PTSD -- could be of assistance here |
Misato
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 05:48 pm: |
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I dont mean for this to be racist. I know it happens everywhere to all kinds of people. I dont give a •••• what you are, its WHO you are.
I've been working on the site. I know there is more to add. I keep remembering things.
anyway, check it out and tell me what you think. I want to get it all cleaned up before I start sending links to it everywhere..
thanks Blake for the help, and everyone.. |
Misato
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 11:46 am: |
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I've updated the site to 3 pages now.. |
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