| Author | Message | ||
     Halbard |
Dana... my friends showroom R1 is one hell of alot closer to a race R1 then the XBRR is to anything Buell is selling on the showroom floor. That is asking for trouble. Running bikes on the street teaches riders and crew what to look for, what potential problems are, and how to quick fix it for race time. Sure as hell the machines are modified... but you don't see them with troubles like, um, say... getting a bike off the track stand, do you? I'm sorry, but I did expect to see a race out there today. Saying stuff like "well, we never expected them to finish..." and the such dosen't cut it. Harley Davidson. Name ring a bell? They make millions a year, just off f'ing t-shirts. They invested FAR more then $30,000 a bike in these machines. Get real. They had months to work out the bugs. They had months to work on the bikes, and teach pit crews. If you didn't expect them to finish... I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Love Buell... just wish Harley wasn't running the show. They just ruin it. | ||
| Dana P. |
Don't really want to argue with someone that has it all figured out in a nut shell. Glad that you have it all figured out. Have a good my friend. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Yes, your buddies R-1 is REALLY close to Rossi's. Yes. A couple of months is PLENTY of time to straighten everything out. If I'm not mistaken, there was another teams front wheel changer that looked like he was doing a hooker while trying to get the front tire into position. How does a street bike teach the rider and crew what to look for? I'm going into the Honda dealer Monday and asking them to sell me Zemke's bike. I want a bike set up EXACTLY like his. I'll bet you the price of the XBRR that I can't get anything CLOSE to it. Well, maybe the grips. Anyone that thinks those bikes are any where near stock are nutty. Stock frames, swing arms, engines. No way in hell. Months versus YEARS in development AND FACTORY BACKING makes all the difference in the world. | ||
| Bcordb3 |
Halbard - You got it backwards, racing is the lab. The factories use the race track for development, not the other way around. In my nearly 50 years of riding and racing, I don't think I have seen one thing that came from a street bike to a racing machine. | ||
| Lowflyer |
Ummm. I bet you could go pick up a repli-racer and set it up to race for less than Buell spent creating the XBRR from scratch. I think that is largely the beef that the Jap teams have. You had to know that when Erik and co. had to ask the AMA for permission to run their race bike, that meant it would mean trouble. They would have had an easier (read; less controversial) time if they had modified an existing XB model for racing. | ||
| Paint_shaker |
NONE of the Buells wrecked.... Rumor has it 3 of the 4 suffered some kind of mechanical failure in the primary... I was directly across from McWilliams's pit when he had the bad pit stop... It looked like they failed to put the front axle back in and set the bike down... All in all, not bad for a bike that most people knew nothing of 8 weeks ago... ALL 4 of them qualified in the top 15 (out of 69)... And the riders had little seat time with them... I would NOT count the XBRR out for this season!!! Go Buell!!!!! | ||
| Thepup |
Rocket,he never said the R1 was close,he said it was closer to a race bike than the XBRR is to a XB12R.Do you dispute that? | ||
| Halbard |
Thank you Pup. Thats my point. Bcord... true, for the most part. The big boys use the track to test... but alot of the issues faced one the track are ironed out by amature racers, and on the club circit. Mort of the time, those of us on a budget, and working without factory support come up with brillant f'ing ideas to fix crap... stuff that the million dollar engineering teams overthink. Youre on the tracks, you know what I mean. Um... rocket... hate to burst your bubble... but Michaels Power sports here in Reno has a Yami R1, all set up, and running well under two minutes on the Daytona track for sale... might not be exactly like the one in the race... this one has headlights and stuff... that can be had for 10K. As far as factory backing goes... again "HARLEY DAVIDSON". Guess it's just the wrong factory... | ||
| Kdan |
Factory backed racing? Maybe you're just hanging at the wrong racetrack...  | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Puppy. I dispute the fact that you and Halbard understand the rules of racing and modifications that are allowed to certain type engines. Yes. I dispute the following from his post which states "Dana... my friends showroom R1 is one hell of alot closer to a race R1 then the XBRR is to anything Buell is selling on the showroom floor". Again, neither bike is. NEITHER. That and the fact that in just about every class of motorcycle racing, air cooled V-twin are allow UNLIMITED modifications. Your argument has no validity if you read the rules. I know the rules. Do you? Halbard. Not bursting my bubble. I would hope a stock R1 with a good rider could run under 2 minutes there. You just proved my point as well. If the have to modify a stock R1 to run under 2 minutes, how heavily do the have to modify the 600cc bikes to run 1:42's? No where near anything you can get off the show room floor. NOT EVEN CLOSE. Found a dealer that is open today. They carry all the Big 4 bikes. Going there this afternoon to see if I can pick up a Race Spec bike for around $30,000. Not just one painted to LOOK like their race bikes. I'll post my results. I bet I already know what they're going to be. | ||
| Thepup |
Rocket,look at the Supersport and Superstock lap times.These bikes are pretty close to stock.I would say the 600's have no problem running 1:42's,pretty close to stock.Take a stock 600 and a stck XB,which is going to have better times? | ||
| Halbard |
common rocket... I ain't talkin about specific rules here... if I was, how about... rule E2h1: "Formula Xtreme competition is restricted to motorcycles (engines and frames) produced for US street use and available in the US through retail dealers." or maybe... Per the AMA rulebook, four-stroke twin cylinder motorcycles between 850cc and 1350cc must be air-cooled. Buell's own press release openly admits that the XBRR engine is not purely air-cooled: "The Buell XBRR features a modified XB Thunderstorm 1339cc (103.6mm bore x 79.4mm stroke) air/oil-cooled V-Twin motor rated at 150-hp (measured at the crankshaft)." So, yes, to answer your question, I have read the rule book. Remember... I WANTED BUELL TO WIN! The mods to the R1 on the showroom floor are: new exaust cans, chipped, filter. It ran 1:46 with a club level rider on it. While youre out, ask your Harley dealer how much it would take to put your XB up to the XBRR's 150 horses. Working with an existing platform makes sense. God... don't get pissed with me because of the results of this race... In my opinion, It would be better to modify the racing XB's which people have been successfully running in races... instead of throwing millions into a program which created more unsolved problems at race time. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Well, I'm not pissed at the results because, going against opinions here, I figured the bike would do pretty much what it did and was berated for saying such. What I am saying is you and the pup think those FX bikes are "Close to stock"? Boy, keep dreaming. Have you ever seen one up close? Again, go to your local dealer and see if you can purchase a race ready bike for $30,000. Oh, and ask your Yamaha dealer how muck it would take to get a R1 up to 210 horse power. Pup, I would sure hope a stock 600 could beat a stock XB. Again comparing apples to tennis shoes. Makes no sense to me. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Oh, can't make my trip to the dealer. Instead going to look at a GSXR 600 race bike that's for sale. How ironic. | ||
| Oldog |
Warning: The surgeon general has determined that benchracing leads to splinters in the arse. That some individuals who get this condition are subject to Brain damage from it. It is recomended that the facts be reviewed and conjecture about racing related issues be strictly avoided to prevent this. GO BUELL! | ||
| Thepup |
Rocket,I never said they were close to stock in FX,but they are closer to stock than the XBRR,do you disagree?Superstock and Supersport are way closer to stock than the XBRR. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Yes, I disagree. And the XBRR doesn't race Superstock or Supersport so that point is wasted. | ||
| Lowflyer |
Okay, everyone stop talking about the race unless you are going to post a "Go Buell!" Go Buell!!  | ||
| Thepup |
"Your argument has no validity if you read the rules. I know the rules. Do you? Halbard. Not bursting my bubble. I would hope a stock R1 with a good rider could run under 2 minutes there. You just proved my point as well. If the have to modify a stock R1 to run under 2 minutes, how heavily do the have to modify the 600cc bikes to run 1:42's? No where near anything you can get off the show room floor. NOT EVEN CLOSE. Found a dealer that is open today. They carry all the Big 4 bikes. Going there this afternoon to see if I can pick up a Race Spec bike for around $30,000. Not just one painted to LOOK like their race bikes. I'll post my results. I bet I already know what they're going to be." Well here you asked how much a 600 has to modified to run 1:42,Supersports are running a 1:42,Rocket I remember having this argument with you last year.The Buells are way more modified than the 600's,spin it any way you want,sorry you can't deal with reality.By the way for $10k you can get a Japanese IL4 that would have no problem doing better that the XBRR did at Daytona. (Message edited by thepup on March 12, 2006) | ||
| Smoke |
seems to me that the reason FX exists is to entice more types of motorcycle engine configurations and manufacturers to the race track to benefit us, the spectator, and also to widen the fan base to increase gross revenues. this is a good thing, especially if some of that money goes back into the infrastructure. read the rules and every engine design has it's own restrictions. hell, i think 2strokes are still eligible in FX. have fun, tim | ||
| Loki |
UNLESS the XBRR has an oil cooling system ala the old 'zuki way. It is not oil cooled. It simply has an oil cooler to reduce the oil temp. The same could be said for a water cooled bike that has an external oil cooler or a pass thru on the water cooling systems radiator. The internals of both are cooled by the oil to some extent. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Puppy, must be thinking of someone else. I just remember you having a shit fit about your bike. And you must be smoking something if you think a STOCK 600 will beat a XBRR. Where are your facts based? In reality? Can someone say Chronic?  With that, I leave you to your delusions. | ||
| Thepup |
I said a $10k IL4 bike,that would be a 1000,not a 600.By the way no XBRR finished Daytona,I bet a stock 600 would of. | ||
| Honu |
pup, Check the perspective by Gowindward over in Stormfront/Daytona Happenings on the bikes that did not make 68 laps at Daytona. | ||
| Pupu |
"I said a $10k IL4 bike,that would be a 1000,not a 600.By the way no XBRR finished Daytona,I bet a stock 600 would of." in that case, a stock xb would have finished the race too  | ||
| Rocketman |
Rocket,he never said the R1 was close,he said it was closer to a race bike than the XBRR is to a XB12R.Do you dispute that? Pup, please don't abbreviate Sprink's name to 'Rocket'. It's very misleading, and not good for me when you're disagreeing with one another. Sorry to be so finicky but I'm the only Rocket here. It is my genuine nickname, and not just on the BadWeB, but everywhere, and has been for at least 27 years, and with respect I've earned it. Thanks for understanding. Rocket  | ||
| Rocketsprink |
God, not this again!  I've been known as Rocket for at least 28 years. And don't worry, YOUR reputation precedes you. Pup, let's agree on one thing. Neither one of us will ever know cause I know in my racing I'll never make it to that level. | ||
| Thepup |
Rocketsprink,I never watch any kind of racing,but I tuned in to root for Buell.I knew they wouldn't podium,but at least finished the race.When was the XBRR introduced?How long was it worked on before that?I would have hoped they would have had the primary,clutch problem worked out after 2 seasons of FX and other lower classes,that would have been the last thing that would cause a DNF. | ||
| Lowflyer |
Go Buell! | ||
| Rocketman |
Sprink, it might be flogging a dead horse to you, but I get myself into enough shite around here without having to take on board your shite too!!!!  Rocket |
