| Author | Message | ||
     Jandj_davis |
I was under the misconception that flat-track or dirt-track racing were the same thing as speedway racing. From a little investigation, I have found that not to be the case, but I still don't know the differences between the two. So, those of you that know, let us all know! Also, I can't find any difference between Arenacross racing and Supercross racing. I would guess that the arenacross series is a poor man's supercross, but I would probably be wrong there too. So, for those of you in the know, help me out! | ||
| Davegess |
Speedway is 500cc singles running on very tiny , 1/8 mile or less I think, tracks with no front brakes. I think it is run in 4 lap heats with the winner or perhaps top two advancing. Flat track is run on everything from 1/4 mile (short track) up to mile dirt tracks with bikes form 400 singles up to 750 twins depending on track length. the also run a TT whinc has right turns and a jump. | ||
| Bcordb3 |
Dave is correct in what he says, to elaborate a little, speedway bikes are a totally different animal, the frame configuration is a very short wheelbase and a severe rake on the front end (almost straight up and down, very low seating position, most of the race is done when standing on the high side peg and crossed up. I am sure there are more modern speedway bikes and engines around. The old Jawa's and JAP singles ran a dead loss oil system in the crankcases, oil would feed through the oil tank to the crankcase and drip on to the track. Not only did they not have front brakes, they didn't have rear brakes either. Very exciting to watch speedway racing. It was big in SoCal a few years ago, Orange County Fairgrounds raced one or two nights a week, A track in the San Fernando Valley, if I can remember correctly and one Perris. No one used brakes on flat trackers until the disc brake became widely availible to motorcycles. Then it was just a rear. Riders used the rear tire to scrub off speed. Back in the day, so to speak, a half-miler would reach speeds, into the 80,s and enter a corner, no brakes. Exciting stuff. I say this first hand. I raced for a couple of years or so, both in the 250 class (novice) Bultaco Pursang and a Ossa DMR, as a junior I rode a 650 Triumph Bonniville, rode a couple of races on Harley XR750. The milers would get to speeds upwards to 130 with no brakes! There was a very famous man from Corona California who made what was called a hot shoe, a steel plated devise that fit under your boot to reduce friction while cornering. His name was Ken Maely, I died a few years ago, he is also in the Motorcycle hall of fame for his hot shoe and other parts that he invented over the years. I am ranting about the old days, I guess that happens when one gets into their mid 60's | ||
| Jackbequick |
Speedway racing is one of the most exciting forms of motorcycle racing for the spectators. It is about 98% rider skill and you're right on the track and can see it all. They have good guys, bad guys, regional favorites, and the regular fans really get into it. And beer, they have beer too. AMA Class C flat track is the other institution that Bcordb3 is talking about. Bigger tracks, bigger bikes, and riders with much bigger cojones. If you've ever seen anything like the Sacramento Mile with about 30 bikes in the main at well over 100 MPH, you've never seen American style racing. Ken Mealy was the Hot Shoe Guy - R.I.P Ken, you helped bring a lot of joy to a lot of people. Ken made every major event on the West Coast and you could watch him at work. Free minor repairs were given to the racers at the track and they knew he could do it without screwing up the character of a shoe that was well broken in shoe and working right. I watched him in a good natured argument with Dick Mann at Champion Speedway in Daly City one night. Dick had an old shoe with an almost non-existant bottom on it and he was trying to get Ken to "repair" it with a new bottom, and about half of the "cup". Ken was saying that's not a repair that's a free shoe. Ranting is good Bill, it is a tribal legacy and good for the youngsters! Jack | ||
| Mikej |
Your basic Speedway bike:  And one in action:  Your basic flat track bike:  And in action:  More info here: http://www.1800flattrack.com/article.php?UID=FQtycTskAw27bNSVBg1U94m59DhHSn&sc=1 079&aid=4813 If you've never been to a Speedway or Flat track race, you owe it to yourself to go someday. | ||
| Bcordb3 |
38X - I think that is Dave Aldana's BSA. Da boy could ride a bike! | ||
| Mikej |
I've always wanted to get a speedway bike. There's a track in Plymouth a short distance from where I currently live. This could be dangerous. We may be moving later this summer locally. This may reduce the danger. Maybe. Temptation. Maybe. Maybe Maybe (maybe...) | ||
| Road_thing |
"Speedway racing is one of the most exciting forms of motorcycle racing for the spectators." (In my my best imitation of a Canfield Kansas twang): That is an accurate statement. More exciting racing is hard to come by. The bikes run on alcohol, I believe, and the sound is most satisfactory. They absolutely leap down the straights, crossed up and carrying the front end. I don't think they ever actually hook up to the track--they're powersliding the whole time. Lots of short heat races, 4 to 6 laps, it's easy to keep track of who's leading (unlike motocross, in my opinion). The program is easy to understand. Oh, and there's the beer thing, too...  If you haven't been to a speedway race, go check it out at your next opportunity. rt | ||
| Bomber |
Class C bikes ran with no brakes due to AMA rule for ever and ever -- the rule change and disc brake availability weren't linked, so far as I know, but did happen at more or less that same time I'm sure the Sacramento Mile is a great race, but Springfield is THE Mile (sez the illinois native modestly) -- even today with brakes, watch the riders enter Turn 1 three or four abreast at a buck thirty is a sight not to be missed Class C racing started as a way for AMA members to race their Street Bikes (ride to the track, take off the lights, and run what ya brung) -- that concept didn't last long, and purpose built racers became the common scenario -- most of the races started out on County Fairground Horseracing Tracks, and amny still take place at these venues (makes sense when you consider how smooth these track generally are, and the lack of purpose built racetracks) I too used to run a Bultaco (also Pursang) at the local track (Only one speedwar, has a track of clay . . . ), Santa Fe Speedway outside of Chicago -- I worked my way up to a Yamaha 650 before realizing the I was more of a Hazard to Navigation than I was a racer . . . . Flat Track (and TT) is still the best racing available to watch, IMO -- close reacing, sportsmanlike conduct (nothing like the drama queens in other venues), and a great family atomosphere -- the show travels around the entire country, and the price of admission is very reasonable -- if you've never seen one of these races, you are missing a great time OK, some other old-timer pick up the rant {grin} | ||
| Road_thing |
A couple of photos from http://www.iancharlesphotos.net/coppermine.html   Check it out. rt | ||
| Road_thing |
Flat track is my second-favorite. I tried it on a Kawi 120 way back before I broke the 200 lb. barrier. Like Bomber, I realized I would never be real fast so I moved to the other side of the fence (where the beer is). rt Hey, who're you callin' old, there, Mr. Grey-Beard? | ||
| Bomber |
Thang -- I believe you self-selected for that status by anwering the call, yes ;-} signed The Residant Silverback | ||
| 99buellx1 |
Josh, You should come with us to the AMA dirt track race in Farley this year. It's August 5th. It's a good time, but tends to be a late night ride home. | ||
| Jandj_davis |
Craig - Awesome! I'll be sure to make it. Also, does anyone know if there is any speedway racing here in Iowa? Also, Illinois and Minnesota are not too far away. I was a little disappointed the first time I watched a dirt track race. I figured the riders would have the rear out more. Then I saw those speedway pics that Road_Thing posted, and that is the kind of racing I want to watch. I absolutely love it when road racers step the rear out. If there is one skill that I want to have on a motorcycle, it is riding with the front wheel pointing in one direction and the rear in another. I've tried it a few times in the rain, but it mostly just makes me flop around with my feet off the pegs. So, not to change the subject or anything, but does anyone have an opinion on AX vs. SX? | ||
| Jackbequick |
I'm sure you're right about The Mile Bomber. I was a left coast guy and we had San Jose and Sacramento so those were our benchmarks. Through the 60's we also had an AMA Class C road show that had some of the best riders in the U.S riding Ascot in L.A. on Friday night and Daly City (San Francisco) on Saturday night. Mann, Aldana, Romero, Roberts, Savage, Rayborn, Nixon, etc., etc., were all in that at one time or another. That was the old class rules that pitted the 750cc flatheads (i.e., H-D KR-750) against 500cc OHV bikes (virtually every brand of British 500cc single and twin ever made) and the bikes were very well matched. The best riders won. I hope the recent changes in AMA rules that will let the XBRR's run against various smaller I4's turns out to provide a similar level of closely matched racing. If the HoKaSuYa guys have any brains they will stay involved, get the new program working, get the fans to the track, and let them vote with the lungs and their wallets. Jack | ||
| Sleez |
speedway website, good info! http://speedwaybikes.com/ lee | ||
| Oldguy |
Worked the infield at the Orange County Fairgrounds speedway races in the early 70's. That was some fun. A 4 lap race lasted less than a minute. Can you say tiny track? In England and Europe speedway is a really BIG sport. They have leagues with teams that will race several times a week, and on large (1/4 mile) tracks. This leads up to the world championship races in the fall. Kind of comparable to our baseball leagues and the World Series. Speedway was popular in this country before WW2 and the 1937 World Champion was Jack Milne from Pasadena, CA. His brother, Cordy, was 4 time US champion in the 30's. They were intrumental in getting speedway going in SoCal in the 70's. Glenn | ||
| Iamike |
The movie 'On Any Sunday II' does a nice portion on Speedway. | ||
| Iamike |
Oh, Arenacross is similar to Supercross but is usually run at smaller auditoriums. It also has more amature races. If you like to see crashes Arenacross is the venue. I told my son that if his mother had been with us, neither would have ridden dirt bikes. |
