| Author | Message | ||
     Voltage_vector |
Anyone check out the 2/27/06 issue of Autoweek? There was a short bit on Mr. Bruce Crower of Crower Cams fame, making a 6-stroke engine. Claims are 40% cut in fuel consumption, with the same power output, and no need for external cooling. It works by having a extra two piston strokes in the normal 4 stroke system. The second set gets water injected in, and when it flashes to steam from the high cylinder temp, gives a steam power stroke. Then when the piston come up to exhaust, it pushes the heat away through the exhaust valve and out the pipe. They show a working prototype. Interesting idea if it works...  | ||
| Roadsurfr |
How does he keep the water out of the oil? | ||
| Voltage_vector |
dident say...but that is another good point....maybe run the oil through a water separator on it's way to the cooler? | ||
| Tq_freak |
if its flashing to steam that fast there is prolly very little later left to get in the oil, water ingection is very popular in the tuner world to help with ping at high boost | ||
| Voltage_vector |
it is a cool, no pun intended, idea...they also have some diesel applications they say...check out the article, it's very interesting... | ||
| Bake |
H20 injection was done with piston engine aircraft during the 2nd world war. From what I remember reading about it there was horsepower increase and a cleaner burn. We are not talking about a lot of water! | ||
| Buellnuts |
How about number of cylinders. Everyone has made singles A lot make twins A couple make triples Most make fours Honda makes a five and used to make a six eights are even made So whats wrong with seven cylinders huh? Bob | ||
| Crusty |
I kinda like nine cylinder radial engines. Someone should mount one as the center of a wheel like the old Megolas did. Clamp the ends of the crankshaft to the fork legs, and let the engine rotate with the wheel. | ||
| Voltage_vector |
The key here is the added stroke cycle, a normal 4 stroke cycle then an additional piston stroke not using fuel, but water injection, and that flashing to steam to make a power stroke down and an exhaust /cooling stroke up and out. As far as engine configurations goes, the WWII four row Radials of around 3450 CID's have got to be the coolest rendition of pistons on a crank IMHO...Pratt and Whitney's I believe tough to keep running good, but oh what a beautiful sound! | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Cool idea at low speed Crusty, but you'd have too much unsprung weight & the gyroscopic effect would probably be fatal at the first bend;  Mind you, might make a good Drag bike, (Message edited by Mr_grumpy on February 26, 2006) | ||
| Voltage_vector |
Crusty, Grumpy, they had a WWI radial engine with the crank fixed and the cylinders spinning for cooling. Are you familiar? Not sure if it was French or German. They made some fantastic machines back then...there was no throttle per say, just wide open. and to adjust power, they just cut the mags...that is why you heard the BRAAP...BRAPPP...BRAPPP...as they were landing, as the pilot was chopping the ignition...I had the wonderful opportunity to see some old WW1 aircraft fly in NY this summer at 'Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome' Tri planes, Spads, Fockers, and lots more...it was fantastic, plus some old timers were there to talk to....a must go to if ever in the area...I left sad though...the place is in dis-repair. The folks who run the place are just getting old, and the founder died, and it needs a big influx of cash or we will loose a big piece of history... | ||
| Phillyblast |
3nuts: here's an aircraft radial 7 - but I'm guessing that's not what you're looking for. Take care of that ticker, btw. Make sure to tell Deb the Doc said you can't exert yourself so she has to do all the work.  D | ||
| Rhost |
Here is the article from autoweek online if anyone is interested in checking it out. | ||
| Voltage_vector |
Hey Rhost, thanks for posting that!  pretty cool guy eh? | ||
| Mountainrider |
That is a great article. | ||
| Buellnuts |
Philly, I told her!!!! Uh, I guess you can guess the answer  Bob | ||
| Jlnance |
I read the article. Enjoyed it quite a bit. The guy sounds like he knows what he is doing. People have played with 4 cycle water injected engines since at least WWII. I wonder how the 4 and the 6 cycle compare? | ||
| Roadsurfr |
As we all know everything doesn't go out of the exhaust. Blow-by would allow some vapor past the pistons which would probably condense in the crankcase. Is this thinking sound? Butch | ||
| Socalbueller |
Roadsurfr, That would be a problem on short trips. After the engine is driven for 10 miles or so at highway speeds the oil temp is above the boiling point water and there wouldn't be a problem of water condensing. I wonder if a water seperator would work as stated above. | ||
| Roadsurfr |
Let's say you shut off the engine, that last charge of steam sits in the cylinder, the engine cools down the vapor condenses inside that cylinder, rust forms on the cylinder walls. Then you have rust on the cylinder walls,and water on the rings, at the next start-up you have more water in the oil than if it were a four stroke engine. Just curious. Butch | ||
| Socalbueller |
That would be easy to solve. Just cut off the water injection 2 seconds before gas or diesel, when you turn the engine off. | ||
| Jlnance |
Roadsurfr - Yes. There is a research paper you can find on the net. It was done by the army in WWII to analyize the effects of water injection. They did note in the report that sludge would accumulate in the oil, indicating that water was getting in. I suspect this is a fixable problem. | ||
| T9r |
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| Chauly |
Voltage_vector, The engine that you're talking about was the "Le Rhone" a French design that was used in the "Nieuport 17" and the "Fokker Triplane" (its engine built under license) as well as some Russian planes. (Message edited by chauly on February 27, 2006) | ||
| Voltage_vector |
Chauly, your correct...a golden era. Get to Old Rhinebeck if you can, you'll really dig it. Plan on the DAY  if you like to just look and explore these old designs. They had several hangars full of old aircraft, some were junk honestly, but still worth a good look. Also some very early motorcycles... hey I like to wander junk yards too, does that make me odd?  All of the above comments are great. Some very valid problems and well thought out solutions. I really feel this would not be a impossible idea, given the state of electronics for timing, injection, all the sensors that can monitor and adjust about everything, and modern metallurgy. I mean look at some of the engines out there now that a few years ago would have been ultra exotic, and now they are common. I say RIGHT ON Mr. Crower!  |
