| Author | Message | ||
     Brokeneck |
I just picked up a new 2000 leftover S3 Sunday. It's a little too cold and snowy to ride so it's time to wrench. I really want to lose the "lunch box" air cleaner. Any suggestions about intake or exhaust alternatives? As you all know this bike is injected, will I need to remap? As this is my first V twin since a couple of 1960's vintage Sportsters 30 years ago any other handling or maintenance suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Bneck | ||
| Oldog |
1. get Factory Shop Manual Then Force winder with filter and sock or Hamcan ih perf filter, home brew breathers or xb rocker box cover/ breather, your favorite slip on muffler, I like the super trapp race ecm, get tps reset, see asb if you got a lap top or the correct palm. check the recall list run the final drive with extra slack manual will likely call for about 1 5/8" slack think real close to 2", Dig into the KV for all kinds of stuff Oh yeah check the brakes the fluid is 5 years or more old. and welcome to the madness! .... (Message edited by oldog on December 06, 2005) | ||
| Koz5150 |
Take the time to read the knowledge vault, it will be your friend. Many of us have taken the time to put good information there. | ||
| Iamike |
Bob- Click on my name and you'll see what mine looks like with the carbon fiber race kit. The problem I have with it is that my knee sits to the outside of it. I think the forcewinder gives more knee room. | ||
| Djkaplan |
If you get a Forcewinder, make sure it has the appropriate modification outlined in the Knowledge Vault. I think you can see part of my Forcewinder in my profile. | ||
| Djkaplan |
Oh, btw, I did away with the breather tubes you can see in the profile pic. I use XB rocker covers for a cleaner routing to the catch-can. | ||
| Tramp |
i would never put, or recommend puttting a forcewinder on that machine. adavance apologies to you guys who are for them- I'd go with a buell race kit air cleaner. it'll keep a constant pressure, high volume still-air intake condition. look at real race bikes and get back to me..... | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
year 2000 bikes are fuel injected and therefore don't have the bloat bowl breather bernouli effect thing to worry about. I also did away with the forcewinder breathers since they condense the water out like a perfect still and dribble the babysnot on your right boot. I used banjo fittings and put the breather to the street. I routed them in much the same way that your profile pic shows except because the banjo fittings are shorter, I was able to snake the hoses behind the frame tubes. | ||
| Blake |
Tramp, The dyno results don't lie. The Forcewinder, with float blowl vent cavity adequately sized flat works on my '97 Cyclone. I've run them both. I like the Forcewinder better, more knee room, better looking, better performance too, win-win-win. | ||
| Grndskpr |
look at real race bikes and get back to me..... Not arguing, this is just a data point, but the Hobans Bros S1 race bike ran a force winder In my dealings with the Dyno folks(not a dyno but the guy who flys around and calibrates them) he stated the only filter that made power on a buell(from a stock point of view) was the race filter. I ask the Hobans about this, and they mentioned a mod thats done to a force that makes more power on the dyno than a race filter, didnt go into detail, but they were and are very good builders So, in reference, it seems everyone is right, to one degree or anotherIie is the bike stock, super duper moded, do you have a larger filter in the race, is the force moded, so on so fourth) Cant find the pics or i would post them up, maybe next time i am up in that area(its been almost a year, shame on me) R | ||
| Tramp |
well put, rog. excellent point. do many dynos work with a fan strong enough to emulate the velocity wind created by an object moving at 60+ mph? much like trying to breathe with one's head out of a moving car's window, as opposed to breathing the big reservoir of 'still air' volume within the car, it would seem that a really enormous fan would be indicated on a dyno in order to reproduce that effect. now, if that seat-of-the-pants test still grants deference to the forcewinder, i gotta trust that. sounds like it does, plus I put tremendous stock in the advice of engineers, being that i'm not one  . gotta trust scientific method | ||
| Oldog |
The reasons that I did away with the suitcase are 2 fold, 1 its a pita to work on, and covers up the mill 2 it lets dirt into the engine, the x1 still air box has a long permiter gasket and several seals that are prone to give trouble. It is an effective intake noise arrestor and offers little restriction, so I am not inclined to believe that it is a major impedement to the performance of a stock motor, also bear in mind that I am refering to an X1, in the HP department here are some comparative numbers. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3842&post=403676#POST403676 (Message edited by oldog on December 07, 2005) | ||
| Djkaplan |
"year 2000 bikes are fuel injected and therefore don't have the bloat bowl breather bernouli effect thing to worry about." My fault, wasn't paying attention to the S3 part, but M2s were always carburated and they were sold from 1997 to 2002. I'm not a huge fan of the Forcewinder but it does clear my knee pretty well. | ||
| Bomber |
I've run both the forcewider and the race filter on my Deuece (both stock outa the box -- old styloe force b4 you had to complete their manufacturing for em by hoggin out the float recess) -- seat of the pants gives the slightest nod to the race filter -- the Forcewinder IS more comfy, though, for those with longer legs | ||
| Blake |
From the dyno run, you can see that the race can performs better in the lower end of the rev range then at the upper end, the Forcewinder provides a tuned intake runner effect that provides real benefits.  Note that the effect of air moving relative to an intake at 60, 80, even 100 mph is virtually nil. | ||
| Oldog |
odd, various builders, Kawasaki being one use the ram air effect and get a few inches of water column air pressure by collecting air and pressurizing the air box, this is said to enhance the performance of the cycles at speed. | ||
| Xldevil |
I've run the forcewider and the race filter on my M2,HSR 42,flowted heads,race ign.module,race muffler/header. Couldn't feel any difference at any r/pm. Must be marginal. Regards,Ralph (Message edited by xldevil on December 07, 2005) | ||
| Road_thing |
I like the extra legroom of the FW. I was running a ham-can with a 3" K&N before. My BDD (Big Denim Dynamometer) can't tell the difference. rt | ||
| Blake |
Jim, The RAM effect works, just not until speeds climb well into the triple digit realm. The pressure increase created by stagnation of airflow against a moving object is proportional to the object's speed squared. The governing physics reduce to a surprisingly simple equation as follows: Where Q is the stagnation pressure, r is the air density, and V is the relative velocity of the object wrt the airflow. When air density is close to that for standard temperature and pressure conditions, the equation reduces to... With V in mph and Q in LBs/SQ-FT (PSF) So at 80 mph the stagnation or "dynamic" pressure (Q) increase over ambient atmospheric pressure is around 802/391=16.4 PSF. Sounds significant, right? But compare that to atmospheric pressure of 14.7 PSI... still sounds like it might be significant, right? How many square inches in a square foot? Answer: 144 SQ-IN/SQ-FT. So atmospheric pressure in units of PSF is 14.7PSI*144=2,016 PSF! So what seemed like a significant 16.4 PSF increase in intake pressure amounts to a mere 16.4/2,016=0.00775 or 0.775% increase. You gotta get up to 150 mph for the ram air effect to provide a boost of around 57 PSF, a 2.7% increase to intake air pressure. Ram air is for airplanes and really fast racing vehicles. It's mostly a gimmick on a street bike. Fun stuff. | ||
| Oldog |
Interesting point Blake: not being a butt here Kawasaki being one use the ram air effect and get a few inches of water column air pressure the additional pressure number ignores the static pressure number of 1 for the air box pressure at rest is the result not .775% but 100.775% which is just over 3" of water column above atmosphereic as I see it |
