| Author | Message | ||
     Koz5150 |
It was anounced (on ESPN.com)that WWE Wrestling will be conducting sterioud testing. READ HERE I think this should bring back a resurgance of Fat Guys again instead of the fake pumped up wannabees they have on TV now. So why does this matter? It doesn't, but wrestling is the last real american sport that isn't fixed... This change can only mean that normal fat guys can once again compete in this true unpolluted sport... Here is my all-time favorite wrestler George "the Animal" Steele  | ||
| Kdan |
 So why does this matter? It doesn't, but wrestling is the last real american sport that isn't fixed... | ||
| Xldevil |
Don't you think that almost all american top athletes take steroids?There is no clean sport.No clean olympics.That's just an illusion. Removing of steroids-that makes me laugh! Regards,Ralph (Message edited by xldevil on December 05, 2005) | ||
| Spiderman |
WWE is not a sport it is a male soap opera. If you are oblivious to the fact that the whole WWE or WWF or whatever it is called now is not scripted, well sorry hahahaha. The only real wrestling is what you see on the olypics. | ||
| Phatkidwit1eye |
I don't see what the big deal is. Rocky was able to beat Drago. Drago was pumped up on all sorts of roids. And all Rocky had to do was work out with farm equipment. It seems to me that steroids don't always give you the edge. Then again, The "Eye of the Tiger" might have actually been a secret Asian steriod that Mickey was giving to Rocky. | ||
| Koz5150 |
Hmmm, very good point! All his farm equipment training must have also increased his stamina since he is coming back for Rocky VI. | ||
| Ryker77 |
Anabolic Steriods. is a class of drugs that have anabolic and androgenic properties. There are many many different compounds that fall into that AS class. So when ever I hear about "steriods are bad" I just now that the person making such a comment is either stupid or just doesn't have any medical knowledge. Food is an Anabolic. If you eat too much food your fat cells increase (anabolic). Which is why Americans are fat asses. Food also causes the release of insulin which is one of the most powerfull Anabolics know to man. Insulin is the reason most people get fat, by not controlling the blood sugar levels. Man made Insulin which came about in the late 1970s-1980's is the reason why todays bodybuilders are the current huge size. Show me one medical study that moderate steriod use is bad. And for every 1 study you show me I can show you 10 studies that are 100% solid that fat asses are in worse health than a steriod user. BTW testing for AS in any sport is a JOKE. Becuase GH, IGF-1lr, insulin is not testable. Plus other AS compounds can be taken daily so that if given a few hours notice the person can have about a 50% chance of passinf the test. Now if your high paying job depened on you being a certain size or skill level. Wouldn't you spend 100-300 per month to make thousands? | ||
| Bcordb3 |
You tellin me that the WWF is fixed! I am so disallusioned. | ||
| Loki |
ohhhh for the days of the old AWA | ||
| Tramp |
ryker said : ( text in italics is tramp-response )Anabolic Steriods. is a class of drugs that have anabolic and androgenic properties. There are many many different compounds that fall into that AS class. So when ever I hear about "steriods are bad" I just now that the person making such a comment is either stupid or just doesn't have any medical knowledge. Ryker- most anabolic steroids with a high anabolic index and a low androgenic index are relatively benign when used for the targeted condition, such as osteoporosis or muscular atrophy following corticsteroid use. using anabolic steroids for hypertrohy really IS bad, bacuse every time you introduce a glandular compound, synthetic or natural, you're giving the secreting gland a signal to slow down or stop production. even at low amounts or shgort duration, the (typically) secreting gland shrivels a bit. also, bear in mind that testosterone will degrade to estrogen, and not vice-versa, hence the introduction of even limited anabolic steroids with a high androgenic index wwill cause a testostereone overload, so that the gonads produce less testostereon, AND the excess testosterone becomes etrogenous in vivo, causing demasculinization in males with the attendant gynecomastia, etc. I had to study this sh*t. oh, yeah- the hepatic load which these htings create, with the attendant bilirubin/AST/ALT spike causes typically permanent liver damage, even at low anabolic steroid doses Food is an Anabolic. If you eat too much food your fat cells increase (anabolic). Which is why Americans are fat asses. Food also causes the release of insulin which is one of the most powerfull Anabolics know to man. Insulin is the reason most people get fat, by not controlling the blood sugar levels. Man made Insulin which came about in the late 1970s-1980's is the reason why todays bodybuilders are the current huge size. what are you talking about? synthetic insulin has absolutely nothing to do with hypertrophy, and pro bodybuilders don't shoot insulin. you're confusing synthetic insulin (which mimics pancreatic secretions) with synthetic anabolic steroids, which have been around since well before the '70s. Show me one medical study that moderate steriod use is bad. And for every 1 study you show me I can show you 10 studies that are 100% solid that fat asses are in worse health than a steriod user. BTW testing for AS in any sport is a JOKE. Becuase GH, IGF-1lr, insulin is not testable. ummm... hate to tell you, but you're confusing somatotropic hormone with synthetic anabolic steroids. all synthetic anabolic steroids are highly detactable. somatotropic hormone, however (STH/HGH) is not as detectable, that is- high amounts can be detected, but tracing such to an extraglandular source is very difficult, esp. STH/HGH derived from cadaverous sources, Plus other AS compounds can be taken daily so that if given a few hours notice the person can have about a 50% chance of passinf the test. not true at all. any daily anabolic steroid (ie water soluble orals such as anavar, dianabol, etc.,) is a highly detectable in urine. they are synthetic derivatives. the fat solubles decadurabulin, etc.) are far more detectable, as they reside in fat cells over long periods, and create slightly less hepatic/renal laod due to the IM administration. again, bodybuilders are not using insulin for hypertrophy. Now if your high paying job depened on you being a certain size or skill level. Wouldn't you spend 100-300 per month to make thousands? by your anaology, then, accountants and chefs should invest in cocaine and crank as well, as those compounds will ceratinly increase their work output and make them far more money. Interestingly, Ryker- you forgot one of the biggest reasons not to cycle anabolic steroids. that is- the first cycle (usually two months, "stacked", which means both a high androgenic and a high anabolic index compound are employed synergistically) will ALWAYS yield the greatest result, with all following cycles providing less and less ourtcome over time. Now, given that fact, wouldn't most athletes be far better off to first truly "plateau" in their hypertrophy, so as to ahve gone as far as possible before employing a 'failing-over-time' chemical? fast answer: of course they would, but few want to work so hard to get there, first most steroid abusers are administering FAR before they every hit their own natural plateau.. | ||
| Glitch |
Now if your high paying job depened on you being a certain size or skill level. My high paying job does in fact depend on me being and keeping a certain skill level. That's why I go to school, and get training. Now, what's wrong with that? Wouldn't you spend 100-300 per month to make thousands? It's closer to $100 to $350 per quarter. Is that wrong? What exactly is your point? Wahoo McDaniels was always one of my favs, back in the day.  | ||
| Tramp |
all that being said, I will own that there are extramedical circumstances where anabolic steroids of a low androgenic index are indicated, but these are rare cases. | ||
| Xring |
There is an excellent article in Outside magazine about using steroids in endurance sports. This link is the 1st page of the 11 page article: http://outside.away.com/outside/bodywork/200311/200311_drug_test_1.html Controversial subject, to say the least. Good luck, Bill | ||
| Ryker77 |
Tramp... not all AS compounds cause estrogen spikes. For example Deca and Tren cause an increase in progesterone. And not all AS compounds convert at a high rate in estrogen. Stuff like test and primo are very mild. Something like anadrol will cause larger amounts of estrogen. But estrogen can be controlled with? anti-estrogen novladex, armidex and lestor (spelling) Liver damage.... oil based AS does not cause any more liver damage than an asprin a day. Oral steroids is NO different than any oral med. All oral meds must be processed through the liver 17aa the first time then once again as it metabolizes out. Which is why all the TV comericals for oral meds state that liver test must be done. Lets see what else can I educate you on. "all synthetic anabolic steroids are highly detactable" look up half life. Deca can be tested for up to 18 months. Test no ester is out of your system in less than 2 days. "and pro bodybuilders don't shoot insulin" I can promise you that 90% of all pro BB take insulin. Either humalog post workout or a split in the morning time. Insulin shuttles ATP and all of the other good stuff into the muscle cell. You really don't have a clue about what pro's take if you think they don't take insulin. "again, bodybuilders are not using insulin for hypertrophy." http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catinsulin.htm NOTICE I DO NOT ADVISE THE USE OF ANY ILLEGAL DRUG Since you appear to have some book knowledge look up long acting insulin growth factor "IGF-lr3" This stuff is insane. It actually causes new cells to form! Ryker- you forgot one of the biggest reasons not to cycle anabolic steroids. that is- the first cycle (usually two months, "stacked", which means both a high androgenic and a high anabolic index compound are employed synergistically) will ALWAYS yield the greatest result, with all following cycles providing less and less ourtcome over time. That is true if the person using AS was underdeveloped. I can train somebody who never set foot in a gym and without any illegal drugs have them gain 15-20lbs. But each and every single pound after that will require even more effort. Since this is a motorcycle chat board. I'll explain it like this it might take XX amout of HP to hit 100mph but after that each 1mph increase will require a heck of a lot more power. but few want to work so hard to get there, first most steroid abusers are administering FAR before they every hit their own natural plateau.. 110% agreement My main point is that there are a heck of a lot other problems than steriods to worry about. 400,000 Americans die each year from being out of shape and a bad diet. Meth has touched nearly every household in America. | ||
| Xldevil |
I'm into bodybuilding for more than 20 years. I tried most of AS. I can tell you, there is not a single harmless steroid. They all have severe side effects. They all cause arteriosclerosis.They all lower the good kind of cholesterol.Outside you look healthy and strong.But your inside is poisoned. I used AS for more than 10 years.I can tell you a lot about side effects. I'm out of AS for 5 years now.I will never ever use them again!I will never be an addict again ! Nobody needs any fake power,that comes from chemical crooks. When I make my workout now,it's just me and my power.When I look at my body, it's just me.Not a pill or an injection. Btw.What is moderate in taking drugs? Ralph | ||
| Tramp |
ummmmmmm....Ryker, you're going to "educate" me on this stuff? seriously: all anabolic streoids will trigger testostereone increase, the excess of which will degrade into estrogen. all of them. and you are waaaay off about all bodybuilders using insulin. incidentally, the use of insulin in individuals with healthy pancrease will effect hypopancreasis, or shrivelling of the pancrease into a raisin so that the user becomesdiebetic as a result. your statement about oil based (just say IM) anabolic steroids causing no more liver damage than aspirin is false and dangerous. bear in mind that the synergistic effect of the initial damage from overworkingt the liver, THEN the actual hypertophy of the liver as anabolic copmpounds cluster to it in serum, causing it to heal quickly and hypertrophy. saying that i "seem to have some book knowledge" is offensive and presumptuous. in the early 80s when i was a premed, and anabolic steroids were not yet classified as illicit substances, i did a LOT of work with many anabolic steroids at the time, and I've administered literally hundreds of IMs. I also never used any of the stuff myself and pushed a 415# bench while weighing 167. The overnight trainer gurus are a dime a dozen, half an education from reading 'ripped' and 'M&F', are always looking for the easy route. lemme tell you a funny story: in the early 80s we got a few cases of Bolasterone. It was kind of a cool, boutiquey juice of the day, and a bunch of the guys wanted to cycle it. soooooooooooooooo..... we started administrating, they paid good money, AND they did what all good hypertophists do whe cycling: they ate three times as much, worked three times as hard, so as to maximize the effects. we had a good half-dozen guys break gym records in squat and deadlift. anyway, one of the gym managers said he wanted to have the bolasterone tested, as it seemed SO effective that he thought it HAD ot be Deca or some Dianabol derivative snuck into IM form (it was tried a lot in the 80s, the li'l blue pill being so effective). I had a graduate student at my school run an ampule in the lab and, lo and behold- it was * * * * * * * * sesame seed oil. * * * nothing more. straight sesame seed oil. you see, the guys were eating three times as much, and working three times harder, so they got the gains. real gains. hell, I had half the gym doing upper-body plyometrics, including myself, (which, as it turns out, was a mistaken experiment on my part, but that's another story) the supplier (guy in texas) got a phone call, too, and he made up for the whole shipment with some fat deca. Ryk- it's one thing to disuss things on the 'net, another thing to state "facts" that have no back-up, and yet another to tell somoen you don't know that they seem to have read some books. that's outta line and presumptuous. your main point, however, that there are FAR more health issues to think about before anabolic steroids is well-taken- I absolutely agree. I cannot belive that there's such an uproar about anabolic steroids, which work on your body, and every other commercial on TV is telling parents to "talk to your doctor about zoloft", which works on your melon, and twists it far more and in similar ways. The amount of garbage that people eat in this country is scary. medicating your kid every time he or she fidgets or is distracted is sickening to me. really- sickening. so, in summation, I agree, in priniciple with your primary point. anabolic steroids are relatively benign in comparison to other compounds that are not only LEGAL (!!!!!) but which are being pushed to and used by every other soccer mom and her 3.5 kids in america. I weep for the future. (oh, and incidentally, I'm a good 30# underweight due to some debilitating infections I've had for many years. the temptation to get a scrip for a case of anavar and a case of deca is a strong one. won't happen, but.... the temptation's there. please don't convince me otherwise, as I'm on enough antibiotics to make my liver explode, as it is.  ) | ||
| Djkaplan |
"This change can only mean that normal fat guys can once again compete in this true unpolluted sport..." One could only hope..., one could only hope... My favorite old school body slammer... Mr Wrestling 2!!!  | ||
| Djkaplan |
"If you are oblivious to the fact that the whole WWE or WWF or whatever it is called now is not scripted, well sorry hahahaha. The only real wrestling is what you see on the olypics." It's real and these are the finest athletes in the world! Can't you tell by the picture I posted of Mr Wrestling 2? That stuff they do in the Olypics, that's just for kids, these are men! If you don't think it's real, just let me get you into a SLEEPER, or a FIGURE FOUR. Don't forget the deadly and dreaded HEART PUNCH, or the sneaky SHINEN NOMAKI. No way you could ever survive an ATOMIC KNEE-LIFT or the stool loosening ATOMIC DROP. Not real..., phffffft! | ||
| Bigdaddy |
What a subject to get going here -- could quickly degenerate to something akin to politics/religion. I've been involved in competitive power lifting for 22 years and my anabolic of choice is biscuits. I guess what I'm saying is I eat a typical southern male diet, do very well in competition. I have respect for the bodybuilding types -- I've tried it but the dietary restraints are beyond me. Based on my experience guys that are juicing at any level have a shorter shelf life. I've seen some great lifters, with enormous power, break down by the time they reach 30 years of age. There's not many of us over 40 who have spent anytime playing with D-bol. I've read a number of the studies on long-term usage of roids (strangely enough the majority of empirical data comes from East German Olympic training models) and there may be some truth to controlled usage with no long-term health degradation. Personally I'll stick with biscuits  See ya'll in the gym, G2 | ||
| Djkaplan |
"Personally I'll stick with biscuits..." Ah, yes - the same supplement my favorite mat man Mr Wrestling 2 apparently abused during his illustrious career. | ||
| Djkaplan |
Here's another photograph of Mr Wrestling 2 with some guy.  | ||
| Tramp |
like i said about the guys getting great gains from bolasterone that turned out to be plain ol' sesame oil.... | ||
| Koz5150 |
Well I started this thread in hopes that it would be a fun one (unlike the dreaded wal-mart discussion)... Oh well, back to Wrestling info. Back in 2001 I flew to Tampa for a weekend vaction with a few of my old Air Force buddies. I get on the plane only to find Hulk Hogan sitting in front of me. He was the coolest. He had on a RAW T-shirt so he kinda stood out, but was nice to every person that talked to him. The best was when we got off the plane and I was walking right next to him as my buddies picked me up form the airport. The then tok the time to leave a voicemail for a guy's kids on their home phone. It was a riot! I really wanted to ask him about the time he bodyslammed Andre the Giant at wrestlemania. Maybe next we fly together I guess. | ||
| Ryker77 |
Tramp, all anabolic streoids will trigger testostereone increase, the excess of which will degrade into estrogen. all of them. Nandrolone is proven to be a progestin. This fact is of clear importance in bodybuilding, because while moderate Deca-only use actually lowers estrogen levels as a consequence of reducing natural testosterone levels and thus allowing the aromatase enzyme less substrate to work with, Deca nonetheless can cause gyno in some individuals. High levels of progestogenic steroids can kill sex drive in male bodybuilders, though there is a great deal of individual variability as to what is too much. Incidentally, this progestogenic activity also inhibits LH production, and contrary to common belief, even small amounts of Deca are quite inhibitory, approximately as much so as the same amount of testosterone. To some extent, nandrolone aromatizes to estrogen, and it does not appear that this can be entirely blocked by use of aromatase inhibitors – indeed, aromatase may not be involved at all in this process (there is no evidence in humans that such occurs) with the enzyme CYP 2C11 being in my opinion the more likely candidate for this activity. In any case, Cytadren, an aromatase inhibitor, has not been found effective in avoiding aromatization of nandrolone. Different steriods aromatise into estrogen at very different rates. So the statement that all steriods cause increase in estrogen is not fully true. Most estrogen problems pop up after the use of AS. The use of anti-estrogen block nearly all of those effects. But then those normally cause there own problems like HDL/LDL problems. __________________ and you are waaaay off about all bodybuilders using insulin. incidentally, the use of insulin in individuals with healthy pancrease will effect hypopancreasis, or shrivelling of the pancrease into a raisin so that the user becomesdiebetic as a result. Do a quick internet search on insulin and bodybuilding. You'll see that most pro's above 220lbs have used or recommend the smart use of insulin. Key word is smart. If that is possible. 10ius of humalog post workout with a ratio of 10 carbs per 1iu of insulin is the normal starting use. Most pro's use HGH along with insulin. here is a quick link to show you that some BB take slin http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catinsulin.htm your statement about oil based (just say IM) anabolic steroids causing no more liver damage than aspirin is false and dangerous. So would you say that taking 400mgs/2ml of testosterone every week causes more harm to the liver than 200mgs of oral asprin taked ED? http://www.totalityofbeing.com/ArchivedDailyAspirin.html "aspirin and the entire class of Cox1 and Cox 2 medications (the Non Steroidal anti Inflammatory Drugs) kill 20,000 Americans a year and hospitalize another 100,000 with kidney, liver and intestinal woes. (Wall Street Journal article on Celebrex, 19 April 1999)." | ||
| Ryker77 |
FAR more health issues to think about before anabolic steroids is well-taken- I absolutely agree. I cannot belive that there's such an uproar about anabolic steroids, which work on your body, and every other commercial on TV is telling parents to "talk to your doctor about zoloft", which works on your melon, and twists it far more and in similar ways. The amount of garbage that people eat in this country is scary. medicating your kid every time he or she fidgets or is distracted is sickening to me. really- sickening. Oh so so true. Looks like your medical training hasn't brainwashed you into a pill pusher. I refuse to see those kinds of docs. Sorry if I offended you with my comments. Its just that my current knowledge is somewhat different than what you had in the 80's. 20 years ago My buddy has been on nut case drugs ever since his divorce. He is now just a pill poppin legal drug user. | ||
| Tramp |
Ryker- I dropped out of PREmed in the 80s because that workload wasn't for me. got a ride with language and got right back into sports. I still keep up on med. reading, though, bizarre as it sounds. your point about the near-20 year difference in our anabolic steroid know-how is well-taken, though. good point. -tramp van winkle  | ||
| Xldevil |
the excess of which will degrade into estrogen.  | ||
| Ryker77 |
Tramp, too bad you didn't make it. You'd probably would have been a good doctor. The last doctor I spoke with asked me how he could "bulk up" and "is cell-tech and good?" When I told him its mostly nutrition he said great I have to go back to school and learn more. | ||
| Tramp |
nahhh- I woulda sucked. I woulda never made it through med school, and, if i'd had, I'd lost my license immediately for telling patients to get a life and lay off the twinkies. it'd make for a swell sitcom, though "T*R*A*M*Pper John, MD" (anyway, never happen. everybody has to know their limitations. I couldn't sit in class while the sun was shining and the waves were breaking a half-mile away) | ||
| Blublak |
Hmmmm.. Wrestling is pretty real.. If'n you don't believe me.. Ask This Guy --  I'll bet he could tell you about playing hurt in a way that most supposed 'Pro-Athletes' would never consider doing.. As in, that would be career ending.. He did it sometimes as many as five nights a week.. let alone once a week.. or fewer.. Yes, that's a real third degree burn healing there..  Ya gotta respect someone with that kind of work ethic.. for small money to boot. I think he didn't clear six figures until he entered WWF/WWE and even then, it wasn't right away. Just some thoughts.. | ||
| Speedfreaks101 |
Here is my take. If you give a rat 130 lbs of anything in a week it will cause cancer. If your rat wants to eat french fries let your rat eat french fries. It is his body so he is the one that will pay for it. If your rat can make more money by eating french fries because more people want to see a big rat then by all means let your rat eat all the freaking fries he wants to. Now if your rat eats a moderate amount of french fries it will have little effect on his body, if any at all. Now if he eats a lot of french fries it will be worse on his body, just as with ANY other food or substance. In fact I would be willing to bet if you removed all the chemicals and hormones from the rest of his diet he would be in even better health , even if you still gave him moderate amount of french fries. It is not the substance it is the amount. Replace french fries with steroids, apple pie, sugar, Tylenol, Vitamin C milk, soda, eggs, Ramen Noodles, or red meat. Speaking of which red meat is our largest source of free creatine which can actually help your performance. Red meat has also been linked to colon cancer, Rheumatoid Arthritis , type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high cholesterol, iron toxicity and if you watch the Simpsons, you know beef poisoning actually killed Red Barclay in the steak eating contest with Homer. Also you should avoid eating meats that are smoked, cured or charred meat, as these methods of preservation and preparation promote cancer. With this enlightenment you should be able to come to the conclusion that athletes should be banned from eating red meat along with steroids. added thoughts: * if your diet is not made up of strictly free range chicken and home grown collard greens then you are going to die! * *the players are not the only thing in baseball that are juiced, the ball changed the year that the records were broke so don't blame the roids.* BTW this the most.....interesting site for any wrestler around. I just wanted to find out if the guy died instead I find out he has a web site he takes very seriously. http://www.ultimatewarrior.com/ Later, Bart | ||
| Phatkidwit1eye |
I'll have to go with Mad Dog Vachon. I wasn't even born yet when he started wrestling. I have had the pleasure to sit down and talk to him on many occasions. Two years ago my Bro-inlaw was in a pretty bad motorcycle accident. We had a small fund raiser for him at my Uncles bar. Mad Dog showed up, signed autographs and t-shirts all day, and donated all the money from it to my Bro-inlaw. If you are ever around Omaha, you can find him at Franks Tree House. He always has a good story to tell.   The best is if you ask him to say his catch phrase. "It's a Dog Eat Dog World!" Even after all these years, when he says it, you feel a bit intimidated. (Message edited by phatkidwit1eye on December 07, 2005) |
