| Author | Message | ||
     Interex2050 |
I have wanted to go to a track for a while now, and my desire has been growing with every day. Although the work load this semester doesn't allow me to do much in regards to getting out to the track (even for a visit). But I have been thinking, and realized that it would be simply stupid to take my firebolt out to the track, as if anything was to happen I will be left on foot (I don't have a car). Then I remembered that I have a bare 89 zx750f sitting outside. Winter break is coming up... project time? So here is the question: Is the zx750f worth fixing up for track purposes only (if so where would I be able to find parts), or is it a better idea to just part it out and use the money to buy a newer salvage bike? Thank you | ||
| Fusa21 |
Interex, If you don't want to ride over your head, and risk a crash, then don't. I have seen many, many, many guys who take their pristine Ducs, MotoGuzzis, etc. on trackdays and ride fast but well within their limits. You should have no problem having the same fun, and still get your XB home at nite. I have raced my Firebolt for 3 years, an S1 for 4 years before that. The XB is a very forgiving bike and should be a great bike for you to take your first RACE School on. There are many reputable schools that help you make the jump from being an accomplished street rider(where you're more at risk of getting hit by a deer/granny/semi that didn't see you) to a smooth track rider. If you're not a racer, you shouldn't be any less comfortable riding on a track than going out your driveway. One of the best quotes from a race school that I have ever heard is to "Learn to go fast, Slowly". Take your time, learn the track, and go fast at your own pace. You do the same thing when ripping down a backroad you have never seen. You wouldn't be doing 100+ without knowing what was around the bend. Same goes at the Track. If you need a starting point check out www.learningcurves.com. Good luck | ||
| Interex2050 |
Excellent, sounds like a plan. Makes life quite a bit simpler. The question still remains, as to what to do with the kawi... Fusa21 thanks for the prompt reply | ||
| Cochise |
Interex, I have a friend with a couple of Race Bikes, built only for the track. One, The ZX9 is a 2000 model converted for the track. He also has an '02 R1 that is a bike for the track from the factory. I know that because it has the VIN tag has never been stamped. He wants $2500 for the ZX9 and $4800 for the R1 | ||
| Fusa21 |
Interex, how long have you been riding? If I may ask? The two nice sounding options from Cochise may be more bike than necessary for a first time trackday rider. Just a humble opinion. | ||
| Buellgirlie |
go to a school, and focus on learning and being smooth, not on beating/passing/winning/going fast, and you'll be much more comfortable and get much better sooner. i went to penguin at loudon earlier this year, and rented a ducati racebike and leathers, and earned my race license. it was a huge learning experience. i'd recommend a race school/track school to anyone. then you can practice on your own, like i am doing with my 04 XB, at trackdays. i am currently trying to decide if i am going to race next year. (financial considerations may force me to limit myself to trackdays for a year or so) good luck, D | ||
| Oldog |
If I may ask, what are you laying out for school, equipment rental, what does a track day set you back? | ||
| Buellgirlie |
it really depends on where you go to school, and what trackday you go to. school will cost a "lot" more (several hundred) if you need a bike, leathers, boots, helmet, but i wasnt ready to race-prep my buell for school, so it was worth it to me. i also kept everything i rented through the entire weekend, and raced after i got my license. however, i'd still recommend a school before you go ripping around a track on your streetbike - it teaches you some pretty useful things like throttle control and racing lines that you can practice on your own. trackdays cost anywhere from $75-200ish per day, depending on track, host organization, number of riders, number of staff, amenities, etc. D | ||
| Interex2050 |
I haven't been riding for long, but then I haven't been alive for that long either. I started riding 7 years ago at the humble age of 12. -started with a 2 speed 50cc 2 stroke a year later got a 4 speed 175cc 2 stroke (neither were dirtbikes) summer of 04 restored a 78 honda cx500 april 05 bought the xb12r -Fusa21, I agree that I won't need that much bike on the first track day. The only thing that's favorable about the ninja is that if something was to happen (hopefully not a wreck, but just wear and tear on the engine and other various components), I will still be able to get around town on the bolt. Also my intentions about making a "track bike" may have been misunderstood; what I had in mind was basically get it running and slap on a fairing (at the moment its stripped down to the bare minimum: rolling chassis, engine, wiring harness) -I do agree that racing school is a fantastic idea, it should be a great learning experience and great jolly fun. Thanks for all the advice and help | ||
| Interex2050 |
 fun in the canyons | ||
| Skully |
Hello Delioussine, I ride my XB to work nearly every day and then convert it for track days and have even road raced it. Once all the initial prep work is done, it's not too bad. Having a second set of wheels with race rubber makes it even easier. If you have any questions that I can help you with, PM me. The track preparation required by CMRA (our racing club in the south central US)may be different than what is required in your area but I would expect a lot of it to be the same. I have taken photos of this and posted them at http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/6817/17831.html?1130093252 Keith | ||
| Gearhead |
Interex2050, I totally understand your desire to get on the track and the apprehension of using your daily ride, but "JUST DO IT!" Is apparent that you're comfortable on your XB which is why you should do a track day on it. As mentioned above, you're not there to race, you're there to learn, so learn on what you ride. If you're nervous about having an incident on the track, that's GOOD! That will keep you safe and riding within you ability whereas riding a track bike that you don't care as much about may push you into situations you're really not ready for. Of course these are just my opinions but I have many track days under my belt on my daily rider Buell, started with my old M2 and now on my XB12R. The main problem is once you zip by an inline on your XB you'll be looking for another XB to build a race/track bike out of!!  | ||
| Interex2050 |
I am overwhelmed by all the support and motivation. Then this winter I shall try to get into racing school and get the license. Thank you | ||
| Slaughter |
Peter, Come up to Willow Springs every third Sunday of the month (and the Saturday before it) - there's a dozen of us sometimes racing all forms of Buells. You can learn a BUNCH by asking questions. We have all run many different track day operators (Fastrack Riders, CalSportbikeTrackTime, Hypercycle) and have also raced many different race organizations from Willow Springs Motorcycle Club to CCS/F-USA to WERA to AMA. You don't have to race but getting some track time is an awesome experience, will do wonders for your comfort and confidence - and it can be addicting. Come on out - you can't miss our group under the Glendale HD/Buell black pop-ups to your left after you come in the gate. We always pit with the Bartels team. You'll be in friendly territory. We always have a BBQ with burgers or other things to eat for people that just come by to hang out. This month might be chili instead of burgers but you never know until you get there. Next race weekend is December 16-18 (Friday is combo race practice and street rider groups) $10 gets you in the gate. Come out and hang out with us! | ||
| Choptop |
for yer first couple of trackdays the XB will do just fine. Dont go out and try to be Rossi and you'll do fine. Just get teh feel of track riding, the process, and where you abilites are at. After you get some track experience under yer belt, then see if you are going to get to the track enough to justify a dedicated track bike. There is alot to be said for one, if you do bin it, yer not off your street wheels. I'd prolly lean more towards a more modern bike for a dedicated track bike. As you start to go faster yer gnuna want to tweak suspension, get sticky tires and such, this can be hard to do with older, funky bikes. Set up track bikes in decent shape can be had for $2-3k (depending on year, make, model). | ||
| Slaughter |
Wot Chop sed - Mild power of the SV650 or a 500 twin - like the GS500 or EX500 - can be had really cheap and the first crash won't hurt so badly if the bike is already a track bike that you're not emotionally attached to. My SV got really abused while I was learning to ride it quicker but again, that was mostly racing and race practicing (3 track days a month including 4 races) - The EX500/GS500 can be picked up track-ready for maybe $3000 with a first-rate suspension. You can find FZR400's cheap too. The SV maybe $4000. The SV has room to grow and in EVERY race organization that I know a little about, (CCS, WSMC, AFM, WERA, CMRA) there's a class that suits it perfectly. The 500-class twins are also pretty dang competitive in lightweight twins-class racing The GREAT thing about the lighter bikes is that you can get 2 months (or more) on a set of tires. The big bikes burn a set every month... think about that if you're doing 2 full days with 100+ HP - track day or race day - you'll really use up the rubber. Believe it or not in Willow Springs 500 Singles and other organizations - the Blast with XB heads and cams - hydrosolids, roller rockers and heavy valve springs - makes a dirt cheap (and class-winning) 500 single racer without a whole lotta more mods (though you REALLY need to play with the suspension) - check the threads on racing the Blast here. The XB-class bikes are very competitive in middleweight twins-class racing and fun - but a very expensive way to get into racing. Trust me, I know. If you think you might want to try racing or regular track days, think CHEAP first. Start thinking in terms of getting all the LEGIT advice you gan get on suspension setup and riding technique and getting all the seat miles you can afford. All things being equal, you'll get faster sooner by putting $2000 into your suspension and brakes than $2000 into your motor. I'd always take great pleasure passing a litrebike or big Duck with all the trick jewelry on a track day on my little 68HP SV or 90HP Buell (OK, the Buell is more built now but in the day, stock+race kit). (Message edited by slaughter on December 04, 2005) | ||
| Slaughter |
Oh and grab a couple track days to get comfortable with the racing environment. Better yet, if you think you might try racing, I'd encourage you (since you live close to here) to check out the WSMC discussion board. They are super kind to newbies - unlike the sportbike boards. Racing discussion groups/bbs are serious and fun kinda groups. None of the BS that you have to deal with on sportbike boards. Out West there's Willow Springs Motorcycle Club, WERA and AFM (though AFM is mostly Buttonwillow and tracks North of here) - all of them have good discussion groups that you ought to lurk on - and ask questions as a newbie - I guarantee you'll be treated kindly on any board. They all are Club racers and are really free with race-based advice. WSMC http://www.ducatitech.com/bbs/index.php (there's a good discussion on Lightweight Twins (BOTT Lightweight) AFM http://www.afmracing.org/webforums/index.php WERA http://forums.13x.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=12 | ||
| Gearhead |
Alright, Choptop and Slaughter!! All this talk about getting on the track has caused me to lose sleep and wear out my keyboard doing searches on Ebay!! I've had my 12R at a couple of track days and had my M2 at several before trading. I really enjoy the XB on the street and on the track but finding a wreaked 9 or 12R to build a trackbike out of is very difficult. You REALLY got my attention when you mentioned the older EX500, GS450 and FZR400s. I'm not living in la-la land and expect to be a world-class racer but it would be fun to have something like this to cut my racing teeth on without breaking the bank. Choptop's comment about the bike's age makes me wonder which bike(s) would be the better choice. I'm aware of the strength of the SV's but there's something about wringing out an old timer that has peaked my interest. Any other comments or thoughts from either one of you guys would be greatly appreciated!! | ||
| Slaughter |
The fizzers really seem to have a cult-like following in every race organization - and the network out there is pretty big. The 500cc twins are really nifty. The older Kawi EX500's can be had cheap and with the liquid cooled motor, seem to do a little better than the Suzuki GS500 bikes out here in the Desert (Willow Springs) WERA and CCS both race out your neck of the woods, check their rules about different classes and then ask on the discussion boards. You probably ought to look at getting a bike that is eligible in a few classes - you get more bang for the buck that way. Again, ask questions on the racing discussion boards about the bike you are considering. You will get some really good advice. you can get some of these older bikes for almost throw-away prices - but the stock suspensions and brakes are awful on the stock bikes and you might have to do a ton of setup if you're picking up a street-legal beater. Also check the classifieds on http://www.roadracingworld.com | ||
| Slaughter |
Besides (sorry Blake) - the tubers are such pigs to man-handle on the track (excuuuuuse me - PERSON-Handle) I had the chance to run the ex-Hal's S-1 Thunderbike for a session during Fastrack Riders track day at Fontana and it's a huge workout compared to the XB. Once you get your race license, you do get access to race-only stuff from Buell Racing through your dealer there. Makes it less painful when you break stuff or need spares. Still aint cheap buy a throw-away bike. There's a race-ready SV for $3000 in WA state for example (RRW) | ||
| Blake |
No fare! It's that ZTL front wheel/brake! | ||
| Gearhead |
Slaughter, Thanks for your input! I guess I hadn't thought about an M2 or X-1 because of parts availability issues but it would be soooo cool to have a Buell track bike!! I have a good friend who owns an SV 650 and have done two track days with him on widely different tracks, Mid-America near Omaha and Road America. At Mid America I could keep him close but his skills greatly overshadowed any power advantage I had. Road America was a blast because we were very evenly matched. It was a riot scooting around the inline's on many of the turns! Sorry, Interex2050, I didn't mean to hijack your thread but I hope this info helps everyone. | ||
| Slaughter |
Gearhead, you're still young. Give it a shot. | ||
| Rubberdown |
I think I'm getting race school tuition for x-mas. Anybody know about Frank Kinsey's school at Robling Road? | ||
| Gearhead |
Thanks, Slaughter, CCS's Lightweight Formula 40 looks really appealing!! It won't be long, I could ride in a Formula 50 if it was available!! I'm having the time of my life these days!! | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
Both the EX500 and GS500 are good solid bikes. The EX500 comes outta the box with about 12 more horsepower. My wife rides an EX500 and that little thing is fast. With some suspension work it could get real fun real quick. Check out www.EX500riders.com There are a lot of beginners there, but there are also some pretty experienced guys there, and you can often find a good used EX or one already setup for the track for a pittance. Tell 'em JohnnyLunchBox sent you. | ||
| Gearhead |
Johnnylunchbox, WOW!! This looks like a great resourse with lots of racers posting. Thank you. | ||
| Slaughter |
I had my first expert race at 50, first podium at age 51. I can ride 3 twins classes and Formula 50 (gotta hide from the kids somewhere) | ||
| Interex2050 |
Great thanks to everyone, this was much more info then I could have hoped for... I will try to get out to Willow springs next weekend | ||
| Slaughter |
Heck, If you stop by the Buell booth, Ernie Snair and Chris Matty (the "Matty" on this board) will be working the Buell booth. Tell em HI and that you're gonna be coming out to hang out next race weekend. By the way, we're putting on a pot of chili so bring your appetite on Sunday! We're always providing food. |
