| Author | Message | ||
     Eboos |
I have been having trouble with first gear on my 2000 M2. It either makes a clunk or a gear grinding noise when shifting into first. After that, it will shift fine into other gears, it just doesn't like 1st. I have tried several different clutch adjustments (the grinding noise sounds like if you try to shift a car into gear with the clutch pedal not pushed in), and have noticed no changes. Please help. | ||
| Whodom |
I think a mis-adjusted primary chain can cause this too. Check your primary adjustment and make sure you are adjusting the clutch according to the shop manual. | ||
| Lake_bueller |
When has the last time you changed the primary fluid? My Buells tend to shift poorly if the primary is changed on a regular basis. | ||
| Eboos |
Checked the primary chain. Free play is within specs (.375" - .500" ). (Message edited by eboos on November 02, 2005) | ||
| Reepicheep |
What rules do you follow for your belt (main drive belt) tension adjustment? | ||
| Henrik |
Did you adjust the clutch both at the clutch pack (the nut in the center) as well as the cable? I pretty much always have a clunk when shifting from neutral into 1st. However, clutch adjustment (on the clutch pack itself as well as cable) affects how much of a clunk. Henrik | ||
| Jackbequick |
What Henrik said! First the primary chain, then the clutch pack, then the cable length adjuster (in the middle of the housing), then the lever. Jack | ||
| Eboos |
I adjusted the clutch pack until the adjuster screw lightly seated, then backed it out a quarter of a turn, as per the manual. Where should I go from here? Should I seat the adjuster more? | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Using synthetic oil won't solve your clutch problems, but once you get the clutch adjusted properly, you may find that your bike shifts more smoothly with Mobil One 75W90 gear oil in the primary. | ||
| Blake |
What Henrik said.  (never let it be said I don't give good advice) Eboos, One other thing to check... is it possible that you may have a slightly over-filled transmission? Even just 1/16th inch too high a level will cause the clutch to drag and make shifting from neutral into 1st very difficult. If you add an entire quart of tranny lube when changing it, that could well be the culprit.  Capacity is one full quart, but there remains undrainable about 3 to 4 ounces of old oil inside the transmission. So when refilling, typically you only need add around 28 ounces of new tranny lubricant. If over-filling is not the culprit, here's some inarticulate blathering trying to make sense of why some Buells, especially when cold, can be uncooperative in the neutral to 1st gear shift. The difficulty sometimes encountered in shifting from neutral to 1st gear boils down to the fact that even with the clutch disengaged when the transmission is in neutral, the input or clutch-side of the transmission gets to spinning at a good rate right along with the engine, primary-drive and clutch. Yes even with the clutch fully disengaged (lever completely pulled-in). In order to complete a nice smooth easy shift, each side of the transmission must be turning (or not turning in this case) at virtually the same speed. If that isn't the case, then difficulties in shifting will arrise. Your experience is common. I myself know it well.  Transmission Neutral and 1st Gear Configurations On the left and right, respectively the two sketches above illustrate the configurations of a Buell transmisison in neutral and 1st gear. The clutch is not shown but is connected to the mainshaft on the left. Idealy, when the clutch is disengaged (hand-lever fully pulled-in) there should be zero transfer of torque from the spinning input side clutch plates to the then disengaged tranny side clutch plates. Alas that ideal scenario is darn near impossible to achieve in a wet clutch. Why? The transmission lubricant is viscous, more so especially when it is cold, and it will coat the clutch plates in effect connecting them via a film of oil. If the oil is hot and thin, more on the watery side, the oil film is thin and less robust and will thus be less able to transfer torque via viscous action. But if the oil is cool and thick or if there is too much of it bathing the clutch, it can easily transfer enough torque to get the input-side transmission parts all spinning and whirring when the bike is in neutral. There is then no easy way to get those spinning input-side tranny parts to stop spinning so they can be shifted and mesh into their first gear orientation. So they slow down in one of two ways, a hard clunk due to a deliberate actuation of the shift lever instantaneously jamming the mating piece-parts together, or through tentative shifting that causes mating piece-parts to make light contact, machining off little peices of themselves like a dull lathe tool until they stop spinning and are able to engage the non-spinning output side parts. Better to clunk than grind! Are you a glutton for punishment? Want some more? Transmission in Neutral: When in neutral and with the clutch fully engaged (lever released) the mainshaft is driven by the engine via the primary chain and clutch and so spins accordingly right along with the running engine. Any gear that then engages the mainshaft via a splined interface or that is engaged via its dogs to an adjacent gear with a splined interface will also spin right along with the mainshaft. With the transmission in neutral, the countershaft 1st gear (indicated by the "1" notation) does not engage and is free to spin/freewheel about the countershaft. Thus the countershaft is not driven and what we have is a spinning mainshaft, spinning mainshaft 1st gear, and spnning countershaft 1st gear. The rest is stationary as it is engaged to the output side of the tranny and ultimately held stationary by the rear wheel. Now take a look at the countershaft 3rd gear, the one shown in red. When the tranny is in neutral, that gear and its dogs (dovetail looking protuberances on left side of gear) are moved (shifted) to the right to prevent any contact/engagement with it neighbor to the left, the countershaft 1st gear. That red countershaft 3rd gear is always engaged via splined connection to the countershaft. So when in neutral with clutch fully engaged you have countershaft 1st gear spinning right next to countershaft 3rd gear, which is stationary. In order to shift into 1st gear the countershaft 1st gear must be made to engage the countershaft and pass torque loading through it. Now to the diagram on the right. Notice that in 1st gear the red countershaft 3rd gear has been moved (shifted) to the left so that its dogs are fully and solidly engaged to the mating slots in countershaft 1st gear. The colored path shows the load-path supported by the transmission when in 1st gear. Remember how we talked above about how the output/tranny side of the clutch and thus the input side of the transmission will get to spinning when in neutral due to viscous action of the tranny oil? Well, that puts the tranny in virtually the same situation as described above for when the clutch is fully engaged. The only difference is that with the clutch disengaged, it transmits torque only through the relatively weak viscous action of the oil. Thus a little interference/grinding between tranny input and output gears (specifically those gears' dogs and their mating slots) and the clutch output plates are soon coaxed to cease spinning. So when you hear that loud grinding noise, that is the result of the dogs on the stationary countershaft 3rd gear being forced tentatively against a spinning countershaft 1st gear, until that is the contact causes the countershaft 1st gear to cease spinning thus allowing it to engage. Better to actuate the shift lever deliberately and bang those dogs all at once into engaging the countershaft 1st gear. The tranny is built to take that and it results in no serious wear or damage. Not so for the hesitant or tentative shift that produces the grinding noise. When that happens you are making little metal bits and/or rounding off the edges of the dogs. So, please avoid at all costs any tentative/hesitant shift into 1st gear from neutral. You'll always get grinding with a hesitant/tentative actuation of the shift lever. Grinding bad. Clunk okay. So please always shift very deliberately to avoid that grinding noise, which is the sound of your transmission trying to machine itself into bits.  Again?... What is happening is that the wet (meaning bathed in transmission lubricant) clutch in your Buell is not ever really 100% fully disengaged (unable to transfer torque from input/primary side to output/tranny side) and thus when in neutral is not allowing the mating internal transmission bits to synchronize very well, since half are spinning and half are not. But it is in neutral; how can that happen? Tranny lubricant coats the clutch plates and especially when cold or over-filled the input/primary-side plates will apply torque via that excess/viscous oil film to the output/tranny-side plates. So when the bike is sitting and running in neutral even with the clutch fully disengaged, the input plates are spinning, the output plates which you want to be stationary are not stationary; due to the viscous actio of the oil, they are spinning right along with the input plates. It only take a very small bit of excess oil film between the input and output clutch plates to support some very small amount of torque. And when in neutral, it only takes a very small amount of torque to get the input side of the transmission spinning right along. The solution? First, check to see that your transmission oil level is correct. It should be just barely touching the clutch spring plate. Even just an extra 1/16" will prevent your clutch from disengaging fully. Second, try giving the throttle a quick blip just prior to shifting from neutral into 1st gear. Doing so will speed up the clutch rotation and thus sling excess oil off, which in turn will momentarily remove the vicsous linkage between the input and output clutch disks, thus allowing the tranny input side to cease spinning so that the shifting engagement mechanisms (dogs) may easily engage and avoid the clunk or the most dreaded grinding noise. Third, ALWAYS actuate the shift lever very deliberately to avoid the grinding. A hard clunk is much preferable to the grinding. Fun stuff. (Message edited by blake on November 03, 2005) | ||
| Blake |
Just one more comment re the synthetic oil issue. A good synthetic tranny lube can indeed improve the cold condition neutral to 1st gear shifting action. Good synthetic lubricants provide superior purability meaning they not so extremely viscous in cold temperatures; meaning they remain much closer their viscosity at operating temperature (hot) even in cold temperatures. | ||
| Cyclonecharlie |
Or you could (after bike is properly warmed up) start with a dead engine, put bike in 1st gear, then ( with clutch lever pulled) start the engine and drive off. No clunk or grind...Charlie PS Please don't do this at stop lites. | ||
| Eboos |
AWESOME POST Blake! That makes perfect sense. After I get it into first, with the clutch still pulled, I can go through all of the gears without trouble including back to first. Then if I go into neutral, let the clutch out and pull it again, the same issue continues. It is getting a little colder up here in Massachusetts, the primary fluid is probably the problem. It is just becoming more noticable now. You are the man. If you are ever up this way, I owe you a beer. | ||
| Blake |
Eboos, I'm impressed that you were actually able to make sense of all that blathering. Maybe you could come down to Texas and help translate for me? Sometimes I get the feeling that my wonderful wife can't understand much of what I try to communicate.  | ||
| Rocketman |
Rookin ell Blake, you could talk a glass eye to sleep!! Rocket | ||
| Blake |
I fell asleep three times myself while typing all that. | ||
| Eboos |
My tranny is working just fine after taking Blake's advise. I ran about 50 miles today with a lot of stop and go. No problems. | ||
| Frogbuster |
01 Blast 7K Miles. Just changed oil, filter, primary oil (AMSOIL 20-50). When I first cranked her up, I hear this rattling noise, seems like it is coming from the primary area. The noise is just at idle. Give her a little gas (gently) and noise seems to go away, then back at idle and the rattling continues. Please help anyone. Thanks Need help fast! | ||
| Ezblast |
Primary a tad loose go in 3 to 5 flats. EZ | ||
| Paul2281 |
I just bought an 03 for my Son and he went to put it into 1st from N and it did the grind...I told him to make a firm,positive shift into 1st gear to avoid the grind...After telling him this he did the firm shifts and NO MORE grinds.... |
