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Lowflyer
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 01:23 am: | 
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I did 8 years in the AF. 3 as an aircraft electrician and 5 as a combat search and rescue flight engineer on Pavehawks. I slept on boats with the Navy, and in the dirt with Army and Marines. If I had to do it again, I would go in the AF. AF has tougher promotions because the people you compete with are sharp as tacks. The AF retains recruits by offering a standard of living that is far and away the best in any of the services. This created for me a good environment for educating myself. When I got out in '99 I went to work for a military contractor making more $$ than I knew what to do with. I had two AAS degrees and a BS degree when I got out. I have been out for almost eight years and now have an MBA and an even more comfortable income. I owe it to God and my military service. If you want an education, go AF and take a job in electonics or computers. Don't be an SP or a Crew Chief. I would avoid Loadmastering as well. You will have to serve 3 years before applying for flight engineer, but it is worth the wait. If you don't care for formal education and want to work with your hands, consider the Marines or Army, although you can get a formal education there too; it's just harder to study because of the lower quality of life. I would simply avoid being a squid at all costs. I don't mean to dump on any branch (except the Navy). I enjoyed joint exercises with the Marines especially. They are awesome. |
Lowflyer
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 01:50 am: |
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BTW, if you join the AF, the job you sign up for is the job you get unless you wash out. To my knowledge, the recruiter never lied to me and none of my AF buddies ever claimed to have been lied to. But, you have to be smart about the negotiations. Don't let any recruiter push you around. Stick to your guns and do NOT sign up for any "open" field (i.e. "Open Electrical" etc...) Also, study for the ASVAB. If you score too low on the ASVAB to get the job you want, tell them to retest you in 6 mos. Use that 6 mos. to study some more. Last, make them tell you when the next slot will be available for the job you want. If they tell you they don't know, let them know that they can contact you when they find out and that you will sign up when you have a firm date for the job you want, but not before. They are trying to fill a quota and if they are going to lie to you it will be to get you to agree to the next available slot so you will add to their monthly numbers. You will know exactly what you are getting, but they may have stretched the truth to get you to agree to accept a job that you would otherwise have avoided. Sort of like how a car salesman will say that he has four other people lined up to look at the car you are negotiating for or that the discount he is offering will not be good tomorrow. This is to plant a seed of urgency and play on any emotional attachment you may be developing. Keep that in mind when you are talking to recruiters. |
Cataract2
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 07:02 am: |
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The armed services is a good thing for low to middle income kids. I would have not made it this far in life had it not been for the benifits of the military.
This is another part that has motivated me to look into it seriously. I'm just running in place right now and feel it's time to move on.
Thank you Lowflyer, you put out the exact reasons why I'm looking at the AF and Navy. |
Wardan123
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 07:09 am: |
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Cataract2,
Seems to me every one is telling you why one branch is better than the other. This is a decision that will change the rest of your life. Do your research on the different branches, ask as many questions as you can, find out about bonus info, look at schooling and how it may translate in the civilian world. If your scores are good, consider officer candidate school- I know the Army offers a Green to Gold scholarship after an initial enlistment. The Navy has a 2 year prep school for those who qualify - successful completion yeilds admittance to the Naval Academy.
What ever you do make sure (as sure as you can) that you explore all options and that you know (and want) what you are getting into.
All of my best...} |
Tramp
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 08:37 am: |
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...incidentally, cataract- if you're seriously trying to lose weight, cut out the fast food, the butter and the twinkies, and take a walk (doesn't have to be a long one- go half an hour) every day.
the walk will do a lot for weight loss and for getting your knees and ankles used to some consistent activity, and you'll reset your metabolism to burn more fat |
Lowflyer
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 09:37 am: |
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I agree with Wardon123, all branches have something to offer. I would not begin to tell you which one to choose. I am obviously partial to the AF, because that is where I achieved success. I have also had the unique opportunity to sample each branch except Coast Guard. I have friends in each branch and believe that gives me a bit of insight as to the strengths and weaknesses of each. My opinion is that the AF is best for guys who want a formal education. Again, that is not for everyone and there is nothing wrong with turning a wrench (I have an ex-Marine buddy that makes $30/hour doing just that and he is damn good at it). He got what he needed from the Marines and wouldn't change a thing either. I have another buddy that was a Marine infantryman and is now a high-level marketing executive in the company I work for. He has no formal degree. He is just damn sharp. Look at them all and go to the one in which you think you will thrive. Good luck. |
Kevyn
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 12:13 pm: |
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...the AF is all about flying.
The Navy may have a few more air frames and achieve more actual flying hours(wheels up, wheels down) but it's a different atmosphere with way different mission focus.
You'll want to become associated with a flying mission and be part of a crew. Expect to be away from home for a few days at a time. Expect to miss birthdays, anniversaries, graduations and holiday parties. The mission will come first.
I'm not sure where Lowflyer is getting the 'formal education' stuff. There are certainly opportunities within the AF community to pursue degree programs and there are satellite colleges at every substantial AF installation. However, you'll be so freakin' busy that you'll barely have time to relax and catch your breath. IF, you take on a specialty that is ground oriented, you probably will have time to accumulate some formal degree credits. But the AF world revolves around the flying mission and the crews...so you'll naturally want to be in on the action! There is nothing like a good pre-flight, a fast load and feeling the nose lift for take-off. "Honey, I won't be home for lunch"
I'll take this opportunity to re-iterate my suggestion that you explore opportunities in the AF Reserve components. There, you'll have a rigorous training schedule to get you up to speed in your chosen specialty, plenty of opportunities to perform duty days for extra pay, good opportunities for promotion( Professional Military Education--PME) and most likely you'll get education assistance at local and satellite campus schools.
There is a world of difference between 'technical training' and 'formal education'. May I suggest that you take time to 'test' for your technical strengths and interests and pursue a career field where you have interests and ability. College degree programs worthy of pursuing will cost you time and money--initially--but the payback over your life time will be worth the investment. So, do you want 'technical' training or 'formal education'?
The reserve and guard components of our defense system are heavily pressed at the moment with many deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. There is obviously a 'need' for new recruits with a desire to serve in war time. Education will come in its own time.
One last word; YOU WANT TO BE A COMMISSIONED OFFICER. The fastest way through that door in all branches is with a 4 year medical degree. Your military life will be better, promotions will come easier, you'll associate with other professionals and you will have a deeper longer lasting sense of personal fulfillment through helping others.
Like I said earlier, God has a way of putting you where you need to be to get you where you need to go... |
Tramp
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 02:06 pm: |
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Cat-a-rack...
you could always blow off the idea of joining the military, and maybe just actually get a civilian job.... |
Lowflyer
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 02:14 pm: |
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--"I'm not sure where Lowflyer is getting the 'formal education' stuff."
I finished my 8 years with three degrees and I was a required aircrew member for five of those. I was in AFSOC, ACC and AETC and was always deployed, but I was surrounded by folks who helped me succeed and I had great supervisors. My buddies in the other services were not encouraged in the same way I was. Having earned two of my degrees while under duress and deployed to several forward locations (e.g. Sikorski Hilton, prairie doggin' etc...), I can say that anyone that is in the normal AF and does not get a degree is either fabricating excuses or just doesn't want it bad enough (probably both). I cannot say that for my Marine or Army friends. They had it a lot rougher than I during deployments as well as at home. That is where I get the "formal education stuff."
Also, I would not worry about becoming an officer in the AF unless you intend to be a pilot. AF officers that are not pilots are treated by their pilot peers as red-headed step bastard children. Especially non-Academy officers that are not pilots. If your intent is to become a ground-pounding officer, then do it the respectable way and be a Marine. |
Kevyn
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 08:06 pm: |
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Lowflyer,
My hat's off to you and a snappy salute to boot. Congratulations on making the best of the opportunities presented. I'm glad to hear you had good supervision and kept yourself motivated and quite busy.
You're the exception and quite an exception.
My experiences were different. I still contend that Cataract2 will benefit from reserve duty. I served with many academy pilots, the finest AF officers ever. I also served with pilots who were just as skilled if not more so, excellent managers and in many cases they had other professional degrees. No one was ever treated as a step-child or looked down on because they weren't academy grads.
Your attitude is a bit odd. I'm puzzled that you'd advise anyone to pursue a commission in the Marines. You don't like officers? Army officers are 'less' esteemed in your view? Navy officers don't count? Flight surgeons don't count for anything?
There are many outlets and inroads to a professional military career. I suggest that Cataract2 explore his interests and opportunities and not have doors shut from personal opinion and experience. The military is an opportunity to serve and defend our country above all else. That you achieved so much is extraordinary.
And ya, a civilian occupation can be quite rewarding also...interests and abilities, interests and abilities.
(Message edited by Kevyn on September 22, 2005) |
Lowflyer
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 09:22 pm: |
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I don't need your limp-wristed slacker kudos. You have your experience. I have mine. I don't give a rat's a$$ if anybody takes my advice or thinks I am 'odd.' I think it's obvious from your bloviating that you were puzzled long before reading any of my posts. I am through with this thread.  Good luck Cataract2. |
Ryker77
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
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Branches of Service --- and education. Doesn't = ••••. Why becuase each unit is different. Each job is different. The same person with the same job but in different units will NOT have the same options of the other unit. PERIOD. Some commanding officers of units like to deploy. Like to work long hours. Other units are relax and much easier to go to school.
-- Myself with the Marines for the first 3.5 years I was deployed nearly every month. I was able to get one semester of school. But the last 6 months my job at a different unit was sweet. I was able to hit the gym at working hours and could have went to school. Had I been with that headquartes unit for the first 3.5 years I would have never deployed and would have gotten a degree. Same MOS just different units with different missions. |
Tramp
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 10:48 pm: |
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Cataract- maybe you should get into shape on your own, and hitchhike around America for a few months, picking up odd jobs with day labourers.
save a bit of money and see europe.
as a civilian. get a girlfriend. become a man on your own terms, on your own time.
just a thought. |
Kevyn
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 11:55 pm: |
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"become a man on your own terms, on your own time."
Sage advise and wisdom. |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Friday, September 23, 2005 - 02:05 am: |
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Did 6 years in the Navy. (87-93) Saw a lot of the Pacific, a little of the arctic, a little of the Gulf, and the various countries there-abouts. It is really nice to be able to get out and see how the rest of the world lives. Helps you appreciate what we have here at home. However, I agree with Tramp. Take some time and make your own way if you can find a way to do it. |
Cataract2
| | Posted on Friday, September 23, 2005 - 06:55 am: |
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Erm... Tramp, I'll do that once I'm feeling ready to do so. Right now, I'm ready to get the skills and education to start my life in the world. I'm kicked around bs jobs for some time now and am ready for a career. |
Jackbequick
| | Posted on Friday, September 23, 2005 - 07:53 am: |
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I grew up in an Air Force family, went in the Navy and made a career of it. The Cryptologic field ratings have some good technical training. I had good overseas shore duty, some sea duty, managed to keep one marriage going and raise a family (two sons) through it all too.
I served tours at Air Force and Army bases, did one 3 year Joint (all services) assignment. Saw them all up close and was always happy that I had chosen the Navy when the Army was trying to choose me (I got my draft notice in '64).
The difference between the Navy and the Air Force? The Navy has over 200 years of tradition and adult leadership. :>
Jack |
Road_thing
| | Posted on Friday, September 23, 2005 - 08:29 am: |
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Tramp
| | Posted on Friday, September 23, 2005 - 08:37 am: |
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cat-a-rack- fair enough.
i just saw too many dead and dying young guys in the field who were also "ready to get the skills and education to start my life in the world".... many not even old enough to buy a beer back home.
many died slowly and wept openly, knowing their short little lives were over and they'd never see their families again.
there are other ways to get 'skills and education', cat...... |
Cataract2
| | Posted on Friday, September 23, 2005 - 12:58 pm: |
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Tramp, and many of the other ways have closed to me due to some bad decisions I made. I feel the military will give me the kick in the arse to square myself up. |
Jackbequick
| | Posted on Friday, September 23, 2005 - 01:28 pm: |
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Hey! I'll bet the Road_thing was a Skivvy Waver!
Don't worry man, I'm thinking that boy's school up on the Hudson doesn't have a chance against Navy! At least I'm hoping that.
Jack |
Light_keeper
| | Posted on Friday, September 23, 2005 - 01:31 pm: |
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Someones got to hang around the QM's mights well be them. |
Road_thing
| | Posted on Friday, September 23, 2005 - 01:55 pm: |
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No worries, Jack, we've won the last 3 straight!
rt |
Tramp
| | Posted on Friday, September 23, 2005 - 02:06 pm: |
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cataract- no need to explain those decisions. get a nice mos with skills that'll translate to later civilian life and be proud of the fact that you're serving our great country. do NOT discount going army, either. |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Friday, September 23, 2005 - 05:23 pm: |
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cataract,
Make sure that the jobs they offer are things that you enjoy. Don't fall for the "you'll get specialized schooling later" and go in as an Airman, seaman, or fireman. (if you go Navy) Make sure you get guarranteed schooling In Writing. I went in as a MM (machinist mate) and because I was willing to join for 6 years from the start I got nearly a years worth of schooling off the bat (In propulsion plant operation) and a "C" school (air conditioning and refrigeration repair) after 2 years at sea also. There are some pretty good deals available if you ask the right questions.
I cannot stress enough that you should pay into the GI bill, even if you don't intend to use it. The GI bill will pay you for a lot of college or trade courses later.
Also remember the jobs that sound like the most fun might not be the most marketable skills when you get out.
If you like making things I would suggest MR (machinery repairman) as a job. You can get uncle sam to pay you to become a CNC machinist. just my $.02 plus or minus around $20
(Message edited by diablobrian on September 23, 2005) |
Tramp
| | Posted on Friday, September 23, 2005 - 05:32 pm: |
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brilliant advice from diablobrian.
cataract, what, exactly, would you like to learn while you're in?
there is no dearth of prior service personnel on this board, and you'd likely get some good advice.... |
Daddyhogx
| | Posted on Friday, September 23, 2005 - 05:46 pm: |
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I enlisted in the Army in '62. Retired in '94 at age 51. The Army paid for my BS and later an MBA and they paid me while I was going to school. Now I have a monthly retirement check including health care. No job, I just ride bikes or do whatever I feel like. My experience is that if you make the military a hand they will take care of you. I recommend the military to all including my own sons. Downside - oldest son is in Iraq now for his second tour. |
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