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Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 04:21 pm: | 
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Am contemplating the purchase of a new Works Performance rear chock, fully adjustable model. Would appreciate comments and/or comparisons to stock and also to a comparable Penske. The price of the WP is significantly less than that of the fully adjustable Penske.
They offer three variations (race, street, street/race) and custom spring stiffnesses in 10 LB increments of rider weight.
Would really appreciate comments/advice from anyone knowledgeable.
Al of American Sport Bike, and any others who sell these things, can you advise?
Thanks in advance. |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 07:09 pm: |
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Help!? |
Steveford
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 07:37 pm: |
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Okay, just for you but you have to bring back the R-Rated Section.
I put one (Works) on my X1W a year or two ago and it's a VAST improvement over the Showa. When you hit a bump, the shock actually moves - what a concept!
I got mine from Works and it has rebound, compression and preload (is that race?) and I think it was in the $7-800 range.
No problems with the shock whatsoever although the compression is a bit much for my scrawny body.
Can't comment on the Penske but highly recommend the Works Performance. |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 10:16 pm: |
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How about the spring stiffness they provided for your body weight and did you opt for street or street/track? |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 01:23 am: |
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I replied to you Blake, but let me say it here so that others get the benefit.
You won't find those words "race, street, street/race" in Works web site, and they don't tune to 10 lb increments. I just have it on the web site in 10 lb increments so that it's easy for someone to click the button to communicate their particulars to me with a prompt for it. Otherwise, they might not give me their weight info when they order. I then pass that info on to the shock manufacturer when I order it so that they can build it to spec (Works or Penske). They don't come off the shelf there, that's why it takes a couple/few weeks for me to ship them.
Shock springs come in finite values: 400 lb/in, 450 lb/in, 500 lb/in, etc. But people come in all weights. In general, a race application will use a stiffer spring than for a street application.
If a person is at the edge of the range, knowing how it's going to be used will help the shock builder to know whether to go up to the next range or stay in the lower range. This is true with the shim stackup too. Race tech has the "Street" or "Racing" selection on their spring and damping rate calculators. Two choices probably suffices, but I figure the more info the builder has, the better.
I can order Works shocks from Drag Specialties, off the shelf. They build them generically for sale for the same price that way. If you happen to match the generic person they built them for, it's the way to get the shock faster. But if you're heavier or lighter than that generic person (I'll have to ask them what the generic weight is), you're not getting as good a shock for your money for YOU.
I've got a Works on my S3, a Penske on the S1W. Both kick butt on the stock shock.
Al |
Mikej
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 08:00 am: |
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I thought I read on here that one was more easily rebuildable that the other one, or one company was more rebuild friendly, or something like that. |
Rick_a
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 12:15 pm: |
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I made a "race" shock out of my Showa. It was rebuilt using Race Tech Gold valves, seals, and bushing. I put a long braided reservior hose to get the thing away from any heat sources. Definitely worth the savings in $$, but a real PITA to work on and Buell has no literature on the procedures.
The Penske shock has ride height adjustment, but damn that's a lot of money.
The Works shocks come in three versions. IMO the 3-way adjustable unit is the only one worth it.
We get 'em through Drag Specialties, too. They can tell you where there's a dealer in your area.
If it were me I'd do the forks at the same time. Having only one end of your bike sorted can make for "funky" handling IMHO.
(Message edited by Rick_a on January 19, 2005) |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 12:53 pm: |
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Al,
Thanks. I see you are continuing well American Sport Bike's history of pro-active customer service above and beyond the norm.
Rick,
Hey old BadWeB friend. I'll be taking your advice and installing new springs and custom valving in the forks as well. There was a time when I thought that I had my suspension well sorted. Am looking forward to seeing the difference that a custom shock and fork valve kit will make.
Rick, tell me about how you went about getting your Showa shock worked over. Sounds like you performed that work yourself. What if any special tools are required? Are there shops that will do that for the tool impaired? How does the worked over Showa rate compared to a Works or Penske. |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 02:36 pm: |
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Hey Rick, if you're having trouble with the shaft on that shock, I can send you my other one. It might be in better shape. |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 05:57 pm: |
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Al,
Tightwad me is still agonizing over a new shock purchase. What is ETA from time of order for one of those? I am planning a track practice day coming up in early/mid February with races following on 2/20.
I'd definitely want a race oriented shock. I weigh in at around 210 LBs in my finely tailored birthday suit. With leathers and riding gear I probably top out at 230 LBs or so. Not sure which weight the folks at WP use. All I know is that even with preload maxed out, the stock/recall-replacement Showa is darn near bottoming out in the knee dragging turns on the track and also when hitting a dip or two in the track.
Does anyone know if a stock/recall-replacement Showa for an S3 would have a stiffer/higher spring rate? |
Rick_a
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 06:46 pm: |
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The only special tool needed is a press to dissassemble/assemble the shock body. Other than that, a good assortment of picks/screwdrivers and basic tools will do it. A vice makes things easier, too. Race Tech sends a super cheezy video that is actually pretty helpful when it comes time to bleed the thing, which is the only really tricky procedure. Other than that you'll need to find a shop to re-charge it with nitrogen.
As far as how it works I won't be able to install it 'till the weekend. Turns out the cat made a playtoy out of a critical snapring and I haven't seen it since. I'll have to wait until I can take the other shock off the bike. If it's anything like the fork it'll be phenominal.
The front end is so stable it's amazing. The feel is awesome. I actually have to drop the front end some now that the forks don't dive through most of their travel in hard corners. Sharp edged bumps are harsh, but still controlled. I'll let you know when I get it on. With the stock worn-out, leaky shock, though, she most surely handles a bit "funky" and feels unbalanced.
I haven't found anyone that carries a optional spring rate for the Showa's. It's a damn shame. I think you can get one custom ordered from a couple sources. I'll call Buell tomarrow and see if the S3 shock would have a higher rate. I'd like to know myself!
Most stuff we get gets here anything from two days to a week.
Hootowl...no need, man. You've been most helpful already. I'm sure it'll be alright. |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 09:20 pm: |
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I spoke at length with the production manager at Works, the guy that supervises the assembly of all their shocks. I asked what gets shipped to Drag Specialties when they make an order, since they aren't ordering for anyone in particular. He said that they order a shock that is built generically for a 161-210 lb person for street trim, with a 475 lb/in spring. HOWEVER, if I ordered a shock for a 161 lb person for street use, it would be valved differently than it would be for a 210 lb person for street use. If I ordered one for a 180 lb person for track use, it would be valved differently than it would be for that same person if for street use, but would have the same spring. If I said that the 180 lb rider was an aggressive street rider vs a mellow cruise type rider, he would valve it differently.
I told him the info I collected, his response was "the more info you give me, the better I'll match the shock to the rider". He indicated some other things that would be good to ask:
1) Will the person be doing a lot of touring with the bike (i.e. heavy pack loads?
2) Will the bike be used mostly for 2 up or single person riding?
The answer to those questions have a big effect, it might push them up to a 500 lb/in spring if it is used predominantly with a passenger or touring for even a 180 lb rider.
Two weeks is about the best turn around I get if I order it specifically for the rider, and three weeks is far from unheard of. Springs have been a stocking issue int he past that have delayed it even longer, but they have a good stock of springs at the moment. But I can get generic one in 2 days from Drag :-)
Al |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 07:19 am: |
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I was wondering about the heavy laden touring and two-up scenarios as well. Thanks for the research and information.
If I work up the will to order one, it will be for my particulars and with the help of those more knowledgeable.  |
Rick_a
| | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 01:53 pm: |
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I talked to a Buell chassis guy...he told me the spring rates and types differ quite a lot between M2/X1 and S3 shocks. The S3 spring is a 8.8kg/mm straight rate while the other bikes use a 6.5kg/mm progressive wound spring.
The early Showa shocks were more softly sprung...the one for M2/S1/X1 is a 5.5kg/mm progressive rate and I didn't get a spec for the S3...but it will be comparably stiffer and a straight rate.
He said the original WP's were typically oversprung and that he felt the standard spring rate would probably work well in a roadracing application.
Traxxion Dynamics used to supply the springs for the early Pro Thunder efforts.
(Message edited by Rick_a on January 20, 2005) |
Rick_a
| | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 02:03 pm: |
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Blake, have you raised the back end of your bike any? It makes a huge difference. The Buell Race dept. has a billet shock mount to raise 'em up about an inch. Doing so will make it feel stiffer due to the steepened swingarm angle. |
Djkaplan
| | Posted on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 01:24 pm: |
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Ooooh, this should be a good thread.
Blake,
Are you still running the stock M2 fork or did you replace it with USD forks? One of the sore points of my Cyclone has been the suspension (front and rear), and I'm really interested in how your planned upgrades work out.
The updated factory reservoir shock with adjustable rebound was a major improvement over the SRP leaker, but I wonder how much I'm missing compared to a more sophisticated Works unit. |
Lornce
| | Posted on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 02:37 pm: |
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Rick,
Can you post a pic of that Buell Race Dept. billet shock mount? I'm assuming you're referring to the front mount? Can you tell how much they off-set the hole centre for the shock eye?
In frustration over cornering clearance issues with my own S1 on the track, I made my own front shock mount... by modifying the stock unit. I cut the clevis portion from the mount, turned it around and rewelded it with the mounting hole off-set about 5/8".
The swingarm length/bellcrank length is near enough 2:1, so the 5/8" off-set raises the rear of the bike approx 1-1/4". This also steepens the rake angle and shortens the trail, as you eluded to in your post.
The mod works. Cornering clearance is dramatically improved and steering is sharp and quick at the higher settings. Enables me to carry speed further into a corner before peeling off to change direction. ie: It provides many passing opportunities over more conservative chassis.
With the Works Performance shock I can run the spring preload nice and soft for compliance without compromising cornering clearance.
As it should be.
best,
Lornce |
Rick_a
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 12:34 pm: |
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I've got picks of the mount but don't have access to a scanner.
My solution was changing the location of the swingarm shock mount. I like my rear suspension a little on the softer side...I found the altered swingarm angle made it feel too stiff for my tastes. The bike is now 1" higher with 1" more travel in the rear. I've noticed that most tube frame racebikes also had the forks raised anywhere from 10-20mm in the trees...the front end does feel "tall" with it sitting more upright.
I went out testing the mods to my shock. If the forks feel 100% better I'd still rate the shock mods about a 75% improvement over stock. To my understanding the only real drawback to re-valving the stock shock or even the forks is the lack of adjustment range. I haven't the cash for either an Ohlins front end or a Penske shock, nor do I have the skills to make the most of such components  |
Kdkerr2
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 10:04 pm: |
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> I take it you fabricated a new front shock mounting bracket and moved the geometry of the hole forward? How far did you move it? And what did you make the bracket out of? KK |
Iamike
| | Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 10:46 pm: |
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The stock (replacement) shock on my S3 has gone south and I was trying to decide what to do. What are the options on rebuilding it, buying a new one or an aftermarket?
I really don't want to spend $700+ if I can get the stock one rebuilt for a whole lot less. If I go with a rebuild, does the dealer do it or do I have to send it somehwere? |
Firemanjim
| | Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 11:52 pm: |
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Send it out.I had mine redone out here at Aftershocks in Palo Alto.IIRC it was about 275-300,but had several bikes done in same time frame(KTM,S-2 Showa,and my Penske that was damaged when my motor handgrenaded.) |
M1a65
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 05, 2005 - 10:20 pm: |
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Sounds like the Works performance is the way to go, even for the money. You get what you pay for... Gonna pick up a shxt stock shock so I can ride while I'm saving. |
Iamike
| | Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 08:53 pm: |
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I just got my new WP shock installed. It's pretty amazing how bad a stock one is that has lost all of its oil. I mounted the reservoir up on the frame above the rear exhaust. I would like a better place but that's where the hose ran out. |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2005 - 12:00 am: |
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Mike,
Works Performance, not WP (White Power). Same initials, but WP used in Buell context elicits a White Power thought because the 95-98 bikes came stock with WP shocks.
That's odd about the reservoir cable length, mine reached all the way around the front over to the other side of the bike, mounted on the frame tube that reinforces the front heim joint triangle (left side, next to front cylinder).
You're gonna like it a LOT better than the pogo stick you just took off. Sorry it took so long to get from Works.
See ya next week!
Al |
Iamike
| | Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2005 - 11:34 am: |
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Al,
My apologies on the abbreviation. I didn't try going around front, I was trying not to have to dissaseble too much to get it mounted. One of the hose clamps came apart too so I will need to run up to the hardware store. Other than that, it is a sweet looking rig. I'll se how it works and performs (pun intended) next week on all those sweet curves in AZ. |
Joesbuell
| | Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 03:42 am: |
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 G'day Badwebbers! my showa shock dropped its guts at 23000klm's Buell Australia didnt want to know about it or offer any discount on a replacement.So was at Kingaroy Motor Cycles (Harley dealer) and Steve the owner said a bloke in Brisbane can fix them cheap as chips! I removed it and dropped it off and 2 weeks later I had it back (better then new!) the bike now has 42000klm's and it handles and better still no leaks! have had no problems since and it only cost $160 Aussie dollars.
 |
Iamike
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 03:23 pm: |
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I just got done riding 800mi. on the fantastic roads in the mountains around Phoenix on the new Works Perf. shock. I wish I had a better comparison that a totally worn out stock shock (kind of like comparing a brand new sticky tire to a worn out flat one).
It was great. Even though I don't ride like Ferris does, I was still quite happy with how well the suspension worked. Now I need to rebuild the forks.
I think I'll go ahead and rebuild the stock shock in case I ever want to put it back on. |
Kelly
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 01:41 am: |
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What was the downfall of the original exposed spring shocks? |
Iamike
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 08:27 am: |
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In my case it had plain worn out. I tried to get Aftershocks to rebuild it but they never returned my inquiries.
As a general type rider it is still nice to have top notch equipment. |
Vindigni714
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 11:05 pm: |
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YES,
What was the downfall of the original exposed spring shock that came with my 96'S1?
I had such a easy time adjusting it, just stop drop the kick, turn a few numbers and off I went.
Ido the right thing and bet the recalls,aside fron Baton Rouge HD DROPPING my bike,and not even telling me, I get this closed can that has a mind of it's own!
Now the d..n thing is turning counterclockwise, and you need to be Blake to adjust it!
What was the deal with the GOOD Stock Shock?
Why does it cost an arm and leg to get one like it? I've never seen an original one anywhere, on ebay or anywhere!
Johnny
vindigni714 |
Buelldyno_guy
| | Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 12:01 am: |
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Can't comment on the Penske but highly recommend the Works Performance.)
At H-D Buell of Vallejo, we race Penske's that the team pays for. I have used Work's on my Blast and S3 that I pay for. They work great and the price if fair for what you get. ... Terry |
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New Works Performance Shock for Cyclone - Comments, Advice, Ratings?