| Author | Message | ||
     Swede |
Hoser, was your compressions ratios the same on both setups? I would perhaps think that the T-storm pistons, being domed, would give a higher compression, even though you had decked the cyls? | ||
| Sarodude |
FWIW, my dead Blast fell victim to a dropped valve and the accompanying internal damage that usually follows. Under 500 miles.  First, I'm relieved that it wasn't warm-up related - the Cold Stick I'd previously mentioned. (I have a sudden urge for a popsicle) I didn't think I turned the dial up too high on the toaster but I tend to look first at the man in the mirror for faults. Second, I'm a touch concerened how a brand new bike drops a valve. Just plain bad luck (ie - bad part)? Mis-aligned valve seat / guide? Karmic retribution of the bazillions of trouble free miles I got from my 2 Honda cars? Wait, my Astro took care of that... This is my first bike. I LOVE it. However, I'm clueless on Harley issues and don't understand what the weak point are of the motors beyond the obvious design limitations. I'd love some input as well as some reference material I can look up... -Saro | ||
| Hoser |
Swede: The S1 version did have a higher compression ratio which is reasonably simple to do but must be done correctly. Double check your math & measurments BEFORE removing metal. Comp. ratio was 10.8 . The S1W version is a little more conservative at 10.25 , it can be "adjusted" from there using various thickness gaskets or more machining but if I do any of that I would purchase a pair of forged pistons allowing me to safely run a higher compression ratio. Both use adjustable pushrods due to dimensional changes , shorter or longer pushrods are available too. Jeff | ||
| Blake |
Saro: That's the first time I've heard of a "dropped valve" failure on this board. I'd say you just ran into some really bad luck there. Hope your dealer gets you fixed up real soon. | ||
| Mikej |
I know of one demo-Blast that had a busted valve guide. Probably just a bad install. A friend (sp?) was riding it when it broke, I got to retrieve it from the freeway at 2am. Just one of those things that happens sometimes. I think I posted about it last year. Oh well. Saro, I'd say it's just an anomoly, which is why most vehicles have a free 90day-1year warranty period. Just part of the "normal" variations and tolerances in manufacturing. Still though, it ain't no fun to be without a bike. | ||
| Swede |
It seems to me that improving compression by using domed pistons will be cheaper (?) as I don't have to worry about new pushrods and covers. That will also allow use of standard gaskets which hopefully will keep the oil in its right places... | ||
| Sportyeric |
I think domed pistons in S1 heads would require machine work to the heads which would be more expensive than simply machining down the cylinders. Consider the CR changes we're discussing over only .030". Domed pistons are domed considerably more than that.Domed pistons in S1 heads would require a lot of material to be removed from the head. Basically a complete weld up and reshape al a Branch, I would think. Thinner head gaskets don't seem to be a problem but I haven't had much luck with base gaskets, especially thin ones! Interesting numbers, Hoser,thanks. The opposite of what I would've expected. I'd have thought that the T-Storm heads would lack velocity at lower rpm. I guess the piston/chamber shape gives a better burn to make up for it. Swede, picking away at the "Handbook", a lot seems outdated now, but a couple of things popped out. He says: more than 500 cam lift is a waste of valve life on a street engine. Also, piston speeds at 7500rpm equals F1 cars'. Not good for long engine life. | ||
| Swede |
Hmmm, I am under the impression that domed pistons, deisgned for raising compression on "stock" cylinders and heads can be used without any modifications of the heads. However, I have never seen a Buell combustion chamber. All my knowledge is HD. Yeah I can imagine that with the relative long stroke of a "HD" engine that piston speed is pretty high... | ||
| Badbart |
Swede, If T-Storm (domed) pistons would work okay with the lightning heads, I think we would have heard about it. Assuming the valves would clear the piston (doubtful?), the resulting compression ratio would probably be frighteningly high. Not sure about other domed pistons. You may have a valid idea. A very slightly domed piston (not a T-Storm piston) might work fine. Over and out, Bad Bart | ||
| Sarodude |
Went to look at my Blasted motor yesterday. Wow. Everything north of the case was toast. Hope the mechanic checks to make sure the conrod is straight and the big end bearing is still good. The culprit? Tip of a valve stem broke. Ya know, I don't even remember if it was the intake or exhaust! Just ugly. The spring retainer and keepers were still together. Blake - the dudes at the dealer hadn't ever seen a failure like this on a street bike. Guess I just got lucky... I want my Blast back... -Saro | ||
| Sportyeric |
Re squish as applied to T Storms. I've just found the XL List (I may leave you all for my people). Maurice Riggins ( does anyone know him) has given an interesting explanation and comparison of 883 heads, modified, cf. T Storms. He says that T Storms have a ridge that prohibits the use of 27 thou gaskets and that if that ridge was removed. there would still be an issue of head- to cylinder sideways movement that would prohibit tight squish and that HeadQuarters or some such can fix that. Comments from the wise? Specifically, why would T Storm heads shift around and stock 883 not? I can't ask Maurice 'cause I've been being rude over there. | ||
| Sportyeric |
Sorry. Missed the other important point. Is the non-adjustability of squish of T Storm heads common knowledge(or mis-information?) I hate to think that factory assembly can't be improved on by a little TLC. | ||
| Aaron |
Eric: I assume you're referring to this post? Here's the relevant excerpt: "The chambers of the Thunderstorm valves (he meant to say "heads") are cast in. The squish bands are recessed .025" so you can't really get effective squish even with a .027" head gasket. If you do mill these heads to get squish tight, the pistons domes might hit the squish bands because the cores that are used in casting can shift around and often the chambers are not dead center over the piston dome. So the squish bands need to be recut with the heads on a lathe. Both Head Quarters and Nallin does this kind of work, and will install even larger valves if you want." I think you misinterpreted what he was saying. He said with a .027 head gasket you still won't get effective squish, not that there's anything that prohibits the use of .027 gaskets. And he's not referring to side to side head movement, he's referring to what's commonly called "core shift" (which is more accurately referred to as machining shift). Essentially, when a raw casting is pulled from a mold and they go to do the machining, there's some inaccuracy in where they start that causes some unceratinty with respect to the exact chamber wall position. What he's trying to say is that a mass produced head with a cast-in squish band on the chamber wall has a lot of error, it has to be machined to be right. And he's 100% correct. AW | ||
| Sarodude |
FWIW, someone else just dropped a valve on a new Blast. Check the Blast section if interested... -Saro | ||
| Ron |
Don't know if I should list this under lubrication. But am going to try here as my problem is not quality or type of lube but where the heck its going. Since it was new my 2000 S-3T has used oil. I have installed a Krank Vent, and something called "The Cure". At this time nothing but a very small amount of vapor comes out the vent hose which I have routed out of the air box, no matter how hard I run it. I also found some leaking valve guide seals. The dealer replaced the seals and installed new rings. After a good break in (500 miles) and a 2200 mile back and forth run to Sturgis in very hot riding conditions I have found the following. At engine speeds over 3700 rpm I loose oil. Much over 4000 and it goes away rapidly - almost a quart in 570 miles of mixed 75 - 100 mph. If I ride under 3700 rpm there is zero oil loss. I have been all through the way to check oil. I only check it after I ride and everything is not just a bit warm - but full operating temp. I have been using Harley Oil as it hurts less to know that's puking out the pipe rather than some good synthet that I would like to run. Which by the way is what I just changed to in order to see if that will help. Could I have warped cylinders? Any ideas or experience with a similar problem out there? Latus Motors in Spokane by the way, has really been going the extra mile for me on this. | ||
| Skeptic |
The BRAG curse? I just became the Director of our local BRAG chapter last week, and since then, have had 3 failures of my 1800 Mile, out-of-warranty M-2. My rotor is warped (see brakes page) My speedo quit (see electrical page) My rear spark plug disintegrated, leaving 80% of the tower in the rear cylinder (presumably) The ceramic insulator is now loose in the metal housing. combustion gases were exiting between the ceramic and the metal of the plug. What causes this? photos to follow | ||
| Skeptic |
here is my disintegrated (HD) plug:   | ||
| Sportyeric |
Aaron. Thanks for the clarification. Playing here at the witching hour doesn't do much for comprehension. It's good info to have posted here anyway, don't you think. Keeps almost-competents like me from expensive mistakes. BTW. Do you follow the mech threads over there? It's an interesting HP competition he reports on:modified 883 vs modified T-Storms. The details would be interesting. It could be apples and oranges but depending on a person's starting point and budget it might be bang for the buck info. Johnson Engine Technology also likes the narrower ports (and exhaust valve) of the 883 for some big numbers in an old Thunder Alley but charges a fortune I believe. | ||
| Johnsachs |
Eric, T-Storm heads can sucessfully be modified in the quench area.T-Storm,and Wiseco pistons have a 10 degree dome on them.Most T-Storm heads that I've done,cast that shelf in around 14 degrees.If you mill the heads about .020",and then cut a 10 degree shelf out to 3.495" you'll be in good shape. If you try to use 883 heads and T-Storm pistons, you better angle cut them,and use some long cams to scrub off compression. | ||
| Hardie42 |
Hi, my name is christian and i am from germany. I am looking for a pinion gear (OEM 24057-91) its colorcode is red. Harley delivers just a complete set (cams/pinion gear/cover) and thats a little too expencive for me... Does anybody know where i can get one. I tried to order at jp-cycles, but they told me that it can take several month to get one. My email is: c.hartmann@talknet.de It would be great to hear some good news (my baby is in the garage for 6 weeks now) Thanks Christian | ||
| Jmartz |
Hardie42: Let me know what year your bike was manuactured or whether you plan to use a 2000 and later camset. My dealer has a yellow code pre 2000. $50.80 | ||
| Hardie42 |
Jmartz: Is yellow bigger or smaller than red? If its smaller i take it! I would need the phone no. of the dealer than for ordering and paying. | ||
| Jmartz |
I believe it is smaller but remember that HD is using the "high contact" gear teeth on later models for the pinion and rear intake cam drive as they do on later model transmissions. The reason this dealer has this is because in order for owners of newer bikes to use camsets already on the shelves. I am not absolutely sure but I think think the changed occurred in 2000. Ask for Frank at (770) 919-0000 plus all the rest of the #'s you have to use when you dial internationally. Jose | ||
| Sportyeric |
Johnsachs, Thanks for the info. Where Swede and I are at is owning S1 heads and wondering where to go. I'll be looking at new pistons and total head rebuild on account of old age sometime soon. Swede just wants to spend money for more power. So, is there anything interesting to do with S1 heads? Or are they just a poor starting point? Before I get flamed, I love my current set-up but more is always better. | ||
| Ron |
Anyone know the web address for American Air Cooled Cylinders? Thanks Ron | ||
| Johnsachs |
Sport and Swede, You can make power with 1200c.c.heads,but for the time and expense,it really doesn't pay.Retail on T-Storm heads is cheap,and with nothing more than a little fluffing up of the ports,big valves,small amount of chamber work,and a set of Wiseco pistons you can make 100 r.w.h.p. John | ||
| Az_M2 |
American Air-Cooled Cyclinders - www.amaircool.com | ||
| Rempss |
Does anyone know the length & quantity of each length screw (1/4-20 I believe) that hold the gearcase cover on? There are 11 total, it's seems as though I read there are 4 sizes. Thanks, Jeff | ||
| Cyclonem2drew |
Alright, what do you all make of this: 4400 miles on my '00 M2. After a long ride at moderate to high speeds, I arrive home to find oil splattered along the left side of the bike. It seems to be most concentrated around the front motor mount and the front cylinder sparkplug area. Oil is splashed along the bottom (on the Derby cover and surrounding tranny area), and on the rear "quarterpanel" area as well. There were no drivability issues...no problems detected until I stopped. Gasket failure? | ||
| Hardie42 |
sorry, first message was a mistake! Christian |
