| Author | Message | ||
     Tripper |
Also, good news for the reliability of the VRod: Porsche to manufacture the engine! | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Sorry Aaron, was a joke (the gifts remark)...shoulda used a smiley. Also sorry that you see it as hostility, not meant that way at all. Would like to know how my clamor for more factory hp is any differant that BHR's??? Other than the lack of hp, and what *I* think was a poor engine choice given a relatively clean slate they started from, I've been nothing but complimentary towards the new bike. Never said I wanted buell to make anything other than what they are (well a fully faired bike IF they go racing)...just don't see why they can't/don't make bikes w/ comparable hp to the competition (which I see as Bandit/ZREX/speed tripple/etc...)? Don't know what to say...yes, I'm a smart-ass, maybe we need an icon for tounge-in-cheek? ==================== FWIW since you made the snide suzuki remark...I've been contacted twice by Kawasaki USA. First was a phone call asking if I'd like to participate in a satisfaction survey, which I did. Second, was a follow-up phone call about my survey responses to discuss certain points I raised! Then they sent me a coupon for a free oil-change/service at ANY Kawasaki dealership. FWIW#2, never heard a thing from the selling dealer, but don't expect to either. NEVER heard of BMC doing any kind of customer feedback like this. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Aaron |
You've been nothing but complimentary toward the new bike? Are you serious? A week ago weren't you slamming oil in the swingarm and perimeter brakes and fuel in the frame? Here's a small excerpt: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 - 02:49 pm RE: Travis's referrence to details: Oil in the swingarm? Right. Did EB get hit in the head so hard it was shoved up his ass? You really think they take this as constructive criticism and not hostility? Not that I really care ... I ain't the BBS police, if you think things like that are actually constructive and taken that way, and it's a "fault" of mine that I don't say things like that, well, go for it. Like I said, whatever floats your boat. AW | ||
| Axtell |
Mike, those patterns aren't going to line up as they are now. The waterbuf has a 3.940 bore-much to big for that XB pattern. Ron | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
First, that was pre-release when all kinds of speculation was flying. Don't believe since the 12th that I have maintained that attitude, and in fact pointed out to Court that not only did I eat those words, they were tasty. I was wrong...wasn't the first time, won't be the last. Second, yes, you are correct that wasn't the nicest, most polite or most constructive comment ever made. If I've offended, again, for that I apologize. Was meant as nothing more than a bit of tounge-in-cheek, friendly ribbing. Guess I'm used to a courser group of people. Third, as a touch of clarification; (a) I was slamming the oil in the swingarm, yes, still not 100% sold, but will agree that any effect on suspension is most likely negligable. (b) I felt that it was unlikely that perimeter brakes would appear due to cost and added gyroscopic effects, I was wrong and didn't foresee the use of an ultralight, non-magnesium wheel setup. (c) Again, I was wrong on the fuel in frame. So what? It was all pre-release guessing, we all had opinions, mine just happened to stink worse than others. Yes, I am serious. I had a few caveats as there are still some nits I pick on. Obviously you DO care, which isn't a bad thing. Everybody needs to be put in their place upon occasion (me included), no harm, no foul in my book. I'm sorry that you seem to be taking it too personally, I never said, nor implied any "fault" on your part. I'm honest about myself, I am an a@@, I have strong opinions and will speak them, if I'm wrong, I will admit as much too. Where have I said that it's anyones "fault" if they don't think or see things my way? Jeez, that's the last thing this world needs. Us Garretsons' are a difficult lot, the world can't handle a couple billion of us.  ...this is dead, I return you to your regularly scheduled programming... Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Mikej |
Ah, okay, thanks Ron. Too bad, that would have made for some fun combinations of parts if they were interchangable. Someone could have had an S3X1XB-Vrod | ||
| Aaron |
So you didn't say I'm "pro-Buell to a fault"? Or does it just not count because you said it yesterday?  You're a piece of work, Neil. AW | ||
| Davegess |
OK I can’t resist sprouting off on this topic. The 45% twin is good ‘cause the narrow angle allows you to stuff the engine up close to the front wheel improving handling. You can build a short wheelbase bike with a short swingarm. To see the opposite look at any Ducati race bike. They have to work very hard to load the front end and the bikes tend to have long wheelbases. Ducati’s are often known for great stability in high speed corners but being hard to flick over from side to side in tight ess bends. Pushrods are good cause the engine is shorter than OHC allowing a lower COG. The knife and fork crank is good for two reasons. It is compact, see above, and it allows Erik’s mounting system work ‘cause it has little to no rocking couple. Any other crank arrangement would mean our bikes would vibrate since they are solidly mounted. And don’t mention counter balancers, they add weight, size and complexity. The XB is the smallest lightest bike imaginable, adding any weight would defeat that. As to a totally new motor, the development of this engine and the new Vrod has to have sucked the whole HD development budget pretty effectively. I don’t believe HD has the resources to do two complete motors in the same year. Erik is pretty happy with the HD motor, not that he wouldn’t take a water cooled engine BUT it would have to be the right water cooled engine. If you look at Buells development over the last decade the following things are very clear. One; the bike’s have gotten shorter with steeper steering head angles to increase responsiveness. Two; the bike’s have gotten lighter for all the good stuff that does. Three: we have seen steady improvements in both engine and transmission performance as well as in suspension. I believe quite strongly that Erik will not go backward on any of these items. He won’t build a water cooled ohc motor if it increases the bikes size or weight. He will trade ultimate top end for a more responsive bike. Not to say that Buell won’t someday have water cooling, heck th enoise regulations may force it sooner rather than later BUT if Erik is involved in the design of it it will be as radically different form the Vrod as the XB is from a springer softtail. Could Buells be better? You bet. Is Buell working on that? You bet. Will it be just the bike we expect? I bet not. Dave Gess | ||
| Ralph |
Aaron, my eye-ball says those heads'll fit no sweat. The intake port looks to be at the same angle as current heads. Don't really understand why, 'cept to interchange with the old ones. Far as better goes, I'd figure they are. It's not like Buell to take a step backwards (just never far enough forward to suit me). Evidently, a large portion of the extra revs will come from the valves and springs now being used. Looks like a decent amount of squish. The piston dome is there, but not so big as to cause any problems would be my guess. Mr Buell has made a few remarks about interchangability. My thinking is here's a portion of it. Neil, don't sweat it. My usual verbal style is full of sarcasm. Irony is what I am made of. But my experience in this forum over the years has made me be really careful how I use it in text. Lots and lots of smilies. Half of what I type in gets deleted 'cause I figure some will take it the wrong way. Just goes to show how powerful the written word is. People take it very seriously. bighairyralph | ||
| Ralph |
Mr Gess, missed your post the first go-round. That was mouye excellentay (no, I obviously don't speak spanish, much less spell it). Just the stuff I done been lookin' for! bighairyralph | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
D. Gess, I concour w/ ralph, that is the details/POV that have been lacking from this discourse. ===================== Ralph, your absolutely right, and I'm learning a big leason. Future posts will be different.  ====================== Ok, back to the original discussion. Seems to me w/ Buell's current engine mounting that engine COG is [mostly] moot as he has the ability to hang the engine wherever in the frame he wants, which as I've said before, is one of the brilliant things about his uniplanar design. Agree on the 90 degree twin causing longer wheelbase - though there was an Bimota a couple years ago where they put the swingarm pivot either over or under (I can't remember right now) where the tranny was to shorten the wheelbase. So...we're back to the Aprilla formula when it comes to making big hp. 60 degree so that a proper high rpm intake can be used, still allow for shortwheel base, personally w/ the uniplanar mounting I don't see where vibration is an issue so no need for counterbalancers. So other than height, what other benefits are there to pushrods??? Parts should/would all weigh roughly the same between ohc and pushrod, if not slightly in OHC's favor. Hey, why not a parallel twin??? ...ducking and running. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Mikej |
I still like the idea of a 45° v-2x1, with two cylinders either in parallel in front or rear, and a single on the other side. Probably play all sorts of havoc with harmonics and cooling and such, but would really have a potato sound to it. MikeJ (getting out of range of firing spud guns) | ||
| Court |
DaveG: Well put. I had the chance to cross phone lines with one of your an my former associates for about an hour yesterday. Just my guess, based on inferences from that conversation....No one is making Erik F. Buellk release ANYTHING until he says "it's soup". I'd be willing to hazard that Erik, who actually hurts when someone else's Buell is having a fit, has had all the "oopsey doodles" he wants for a while. He is not a guy who "get's good at loosing", he's a winner. If I had a deposit on an XB right now (and I shall soon) I'd look for delivery about next March. Bad? I think not. I suspect the launch was ready, the time was right and if Erik tell me, "I need to take one more look at a few things" I say fine. You may recall the "launch when ready" sermon I preached a couple weeks ago (copies in the lobby) well I think it has come to pass. I agree. Erik, when watercooled is the next LOGICAL step in the power/compliance chess game, will play that piece. Until, I look for raditor free art from East Troy. Court | ||
| Davegess |
Court, you may be a bit pessimistic but not by more than a couple of months. No ship date seems to have been given at the dealer show and you are correct in thinking that Erik will want to get this right, Buell as a whole needs to get this right. I think this bike will cost some X1 sales but should have little if any effect on M2 and S3 sales so no need to rush. I do no that everyone at buell and at their suppliers are taking this project very, very seriously. Dave | ||
| Ralph |
To bad about the delay in shipping dates, it always helps sales to have people jump when you first release a new product. I think in this case though it would be better to exercise super caution and be absolutly sure everything is PERFECT before releasing the new bike to the buying public. bighairyralph |
