| Author | Message | ||
     Aaron |
Groovy gifts? Man, where do you come up with this stuff? What gift did Buell EVER send me? Honestly Neil, your "constructive criticism" quite often comes across as hostility toward them. I personally don't believe that's an effective way to influence anyone. But whatever floats your boat. You might consider asking Suzuki to make the Bandit look like a Buell instead, see if you have better luck. AW | ||
| Ralph |
Mike, I'm glad to see you value work that highly. Actually, if a guy were to ride a bike to a shop and pick it up a few weeks later, I believe he'd have to drop five or six grand to get it back. It really depends on what all he wants and who does it. I saved a bunch by doing the motor pulling/installation and machine work myself. I'm not going to say what my final price was. I haven't really added it up yet and I'm not sure my heart is strong enough to see the total. Okay, so for now lets use the six thousand figure for a big bore motor that'd be competitive with a TL1000 (which it now has 486 cc's more than). Does it seem right to you that it should cost so much more to be on level ground when the bike (X1 lets say)itself cost three grand more (than a TL) to start with? Sure exclusivity has a price, but damn!! It was worth it for me because it made the bike what I wanted and I was able to do it for less than our (huge) number. What gift did Buell EVER send me? Hey man, what about that house boat Erik sent ya  bighairyralph | ||
| Chuck |
I love my Buell . . . and I'll not complain about anything other than its occasional oil leaks. IMHO a motorcycle is not an appliance --- it is a work of art. Art will always have its critics; but as Aaron says: if you don't like the "painting", then don't consider buying it! I could own almost any bike made . . . but I own an M2. I never feel at all that I have compromised . . . . . . and after I "spank" some "squid" who's riding another brand's machine . . . neither do they  | ||
| Crush63 |
For the life of me I can't understand why the new buell engine was built using a 45 degree V angle. A 60 degree v angle would have allowed a larger displacement engine without an increase in the stroke. Also it would have been possible to run 2 throttle bodies for the F.I and use longer intake runners. A 60 degree, air cooled and pushrod twin displacing 1200cc could have gave the v-rod motor some compitition on the dyno. The v-rod makes 107hp at the rear wheel per a dyno chart that motorcycle online posted today. The new blast based motor will be lucky to hit 80. Aircooled H-D twins are at 45 degrees because they always have been and at H-D tradition rules. Unless Willy G is for some reason forcing the issue behind the scenes at Buell I don't see why Buell would have to conform to this standard. Buell should be forging their own traditions with a distinctive engine that is not trapped in the 1950s. | ||
| Dynodave |
Scene opens with DynoDave conversing with Erik beside the Tilley racer. It's Friday, July 6, a few hours prior to this particular bike taking 2nd in the Pro Thunder Race. It is less than a week before the Great Unveiling. Knowing that Erik is gonna be tight lipped, DynoDave steers the conversation to the race bike engine. Erik gushes about his LOVE for the X Engine. He's preachin' to the CHOIR, so the talk heats up. Erik really LIKES the 45 degree motor for its compactness and torque delivery. Noting the 'peculiarities' of the race engine, Dyno moves in for the kill. Erik states that the 'Blast' heads are running 'NASCAR' springs and they are sitting on AAC/Mill 3.813" cylinders bolted to an X1 mill. Catch my drift, guys?? The X9BR is the way it is cuz Erik WANTS it to be that way... | ||
| Loki |
I like the piece of artwork I have sitting outside.... | ||
| Mikej |
BHR, At least I was in the ballpark price range. I look at it this way, consider the money irrelevant (I say this with $10 left in my pocket after my trip as I sit here waiting for payday). Take the X1 from your example, then have the engine built to your desires. Next take any of the available sportbikes on the market and have it also built to your specs. Now go ride them, long rides, short rides, track laps, whatever you desire. When all is said and done will you clearly prefer one over the other, or will you appreciate each on it's own merits? There comes a point where the money spent is secondary to the end result. Consider pistol work or race guns. I believe like almost anything, the first 90% of work can cost the same as the last 10% of tuning work. It's all in the finish and detail and fine tuning. How tight and smooth does the customer want the end result to be. Probably 95% of the shooters out there probably couldn't tell the difference between an 80% tuned pistol and a 90% tuned pistol, but they'd probably wonder why there is such a difference in the price. And then there are that 1% of the shooters out there who can tell the difference of a 95% pistol and a 99% pistol, but those same shooters can often shoot better than 99% of the shooters using 95% pistols when the 1% shooters is using a near box stock pistol. I could be wrong. I equate this to putting me on a 2002 X1 with a $6,000 dollar engine build, and putting Erik Buell on a box stock S3T with the wide saddlebags fully loaded down with touring gear. Put us both on a race track and who do you think will win the race. I won't say how good I really am when I cut loose on a controlled track, but I have no doubt who'd win the race. The bottom line is you pays your money and enjoy the results. Money comes and goes, but you should only spend what you want on what you want to. What are the strengths and weaknesses of the 45° v-twin engine? I don't care really apart from making one I own more reliable and run better or stronger for the use I put it to. What are it's biggest weakness? Maybe the knife and fork rod assembly, although not many people stretch them out of shape apart from the racers. What are it's biggest strengths? How it made be feel to crank it hard riding up hill thru the canyon on hwy-12 in SW Washington from Clarkston at 10am in the morning during the good part of my vacation, even though it was fully loaded with camping gear. It's that almost undefinable feeling it gives me when I hit one of those stretches of roadways where the magic happens. Same with the XLCH Sportster I had years ago as I rode up Cemetary Road heading out of Renton Washington before and for awhile after they put in the 4-laner straight up the hill, the old section of roadway then became a hardly-ever-any-traffic roadway winding in a tight banked corner dream with just enough roughness in the road surface to make you feel every bump and thump. I ran that section of road many times after midnight on weeknights, and flat cranked it, the old dinosaur 45° v-twin was in it's element where torque ruled with a wide power band, and where footpegs were made to pivot for a reason. I ride what I ride because that's what I like to ride, and I've learned to appreciate each bike on it's own accord. Even my little CM450E Honda is fun to ride at times, but it doesn't hold a candle to the enjoyment I had on the M2, but still I can enjoy it for what it is. Uh, I'm sorry, I seem to have wandered into the recesses of my mind. Hmmm, uh, what was the question? Oh yeah, I don't think it matters if it's fair to have to pay 6grand on top of the higher purchase price to make an X1 competive with a TL1000. If the TL1000 is the target point, then I'd suggest spending the 6grand towards a TL1000 and leaving the X1 stock. That way you'd have two bikes, a TL1000 to be competitive with other TL1000's, and an X1 to ride when you feel in the mood for that. Sometimes you feel like a nut, and sometimes you don't. But I must add that riding an X1 with a 6grand big bore engine would be quite fun. Let's see, the nearest place to truely enjoy that setup would be at least a two hour ride from here, or maybe 20 minutes away on a quiet full moon night up near HolyHill mid-week during the local PD shift change. Not that I ever did such a thing on my M2, but I do seem to have a propensity of riding a lot at night. MikeJ | ||
| Ralph |
Mikey, I don't get the gun anology Guys, this conversation is about technical merits. While I value your opion on esthetics, skip the emotional crap about art work. I absolutly agree, no doubt, I sit and look at my bikes for hours, stand up move to a different point and do it all over again. But this is not about art, feel, or any other touchy feely stuff. This is about THE STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES OF THE 45 DEGREE SPORTSTER MOTOR. Please, lets stay on track. | ||
| Mikej |
Sorry. Strengths: wide flat torque band, generally strong tranny, usually reilable performance, responds well to basic simple formula hop-ups, easy (relatively) to rebuild and work on as a home mechanic, long history of work and aftermarket parts and knowledge to draw upon. Weaknesses: knife/fork piston rods, limitations of push rod technology, rocker cover gasket leaks, power loss due to primary chain drive then final drive losses, difficulty of changing the stator and the potentially catastrophic nature of stator failures as the bits get into the tranny and other parts of the engine, somewhat weak seals between the tranny/primary and main engine sections. Strength: simplicity of one carb and two cylinders. Weakness: Complexity of the F.I. system. Not that it's all that complex, just difficult to tweak or diagnose by a typical home mechanic. Strength: Ease of swapping cams. Weakness: Critical nature of removing the front head and remounting it in the Buell configuration. Used to be you could basically rebuild a V-Twin Harley motor on the side of the road in the ditch during a sandstorm with nothing but a few handtools good enough to get you home. I won't talk about borrowing parts from the farmer's tractor since that might be getting off topic again.  Time for bed, g'night. | ||
| Chuck |
sorry Ralph, some strengths: fun to wrench on --- fun to listen to --- fun to ride on --- cool to look at. | ||
| Aaron |
So what do you guys think of the new Firebolt heads? Worthwhile or possible to retrofit to the 1200's? Better than t-storms? Bathtub chamber w/matching domed piston .... two flat squish bands .... it's common on Big Twins, SE heads are laid out this way too. Why the change? Someone must think it works better. Flat squish bands with a dome? Think there's room for improvement? Suppose the intake manifold flanges are in the same place? Seems doubtful considering the downdraft ddfi. Maybe they can be modified to work? Exhaust port & motor mount: looks about the same. Custom mount and header if they're not.  Pic stolen from SportTwin AW | ||
| Aaron |
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| Mikej |
Okay, speculation here (Ralph's going to yell at me) do the V-Rod heads have water ports in them? What I'm wondering, while thinking of the factory making things more interchangable across the production and assembly lines, is what would it take to fit the V-Rod 4-valve heads to the XB or XL-based engines? Remember, the V-rod is less than 1200cc and is also a new engine. Might be worth a looksee. Or might be worth a wait-n-see. Anybody got a side-by-side pic of the XB and V-Rod heads? At this point I would not be surprised to find that the bolt patterns line up. MikeJ (Poking the pot trying to get someone to spill some beans.) | ||
| Jasonl |
Motorcycle Online has a dyno sheet on the new V-Rod motor. It looks like it's been tuned VERY mildly. I think we're in for a rocket ship nxt year folks. | ||
| Jim_M |
From a first glance, the V Rod heads look to be wider that the Blast/XL heads...doubt they will bolt up due to size constraints. |
