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Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, July 23, 2001 - 10:52 pm: | 
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Is that you "Anon '01"? |
Mikej
| | Posted on Monday, July 23, 2001 - 11:26 pm: |
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...nevermind... |
Davegess
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 01:15 pm: |
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OK for all you "it doesn't make enough power, it's gonna suck" guys out there lets go through the equation one more time.
So top speed is important but how fast you can accelerate to speed is even more important IMHO. That is one of the things that gives bike riding its kick
So what helps acceleration? First and formost is total vehicle weight, second is weight of rotating mass and third is torgue followed last by horsepower.
So what has Erik really done here? The bike is lighter than any of the current 600 sportbikes. (Add at least ten pounds to each manufacturers dry weight claim to account for the water in the cooling system.) It has the lightest wheels by far in the business (there's your rotating mass), makes a lot more torgue than a 600, in fact enough torgue to rival a 750.
Add in the rake and trail numbers off of a GP bike and we, and the magazines guys are are all going to say HOLY SH*T BATMAN when we finally ride one.
All of you who who are stuck on comparing this thing to other bikes out there are missing the point almost completly. This bike cannot be compared to other classes of bikes, it is a new class. It is a new definition of what a sporty motorcycle should be. Like the S1 and White Lightning it will define a new type of bike ans will be copied by everyone.
Fortunatly for Buell it will be harder to copy the the S1WL as it is not a stripped down regular bike but a ground up rethinking of every component on the motorcycle.
As far as the Vrod I have to agree with Anon above, that thinks has to be heavy, look at th esize of thing!! It is packed tight into that cruiser, It could never even with in the XB frame and I see no reason why you want to do it.
Dave |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 01:45 pm: |
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At roughly the same weight (give or take a few lbs.) the Firebolt will not outaccelerate the weakest 600 past the first 100 feet. 75-80 RWHP is going to be utterly insufficient even if a rider used only the engine and rear wheel. This is one more inadequate for competition, market opening entree, suitable for newcomers not for experienced riders bored with mediocre performance. |
Aaron
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 01:48 pm: |
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Dave, I'm with you 100%, except on that torque thing. Engine torque doesn't matter unless you consider the rpm it's made at. Horsepower describes torque and rpm combined, which is what matters. Don't make me go through this again 
I wonder if we'll see less loss between engine hp and rwhp with the lighter rear wheel.
Short wheelbase + steep rake + ultralight wheels ... sounds like a wheelie/stoppie machine to me!
I'm amazed at how many people have written off the bike without ever riding it.
AW |
Mikej
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 01:54 pm: |
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I was told by someone that they could pick up the bare front wheel (no tire, didn't say if it had the brake-ring on it) with one finger, as in feather-light. This would have been off the bike, just in case I needed to add that.  |
Davegess
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 02:10 pm: |
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Mikej I saw that picture, remember it as being a girl lifting it with the rotor in place.
Aaron, yes you are orrect and this will be the wheelie stoppie machine of choice. I am with you on the "write off without trying it" thinking. Sounds like my 5 year old with new food.
I have heard from more than one person, people who are critical riders and who are not being paid to say nice things by Buell (this is not to say that they are not being paid by Buell) that this thing kicks ass and takes names. Redefines riding. Handles like a race bike and pulls like a 750. Responds to rider input faster than anything else on the market. Sort of a Caterham Super 7 of motorcycles (that last bit is for Rocket, lets see if he bites).
Dave |
Aaron
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 03:30 pm: |
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Super 7's rock. I mean, for something from England |
Tripper
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 03:35 pm: |
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Photo credit: Brad - SportTwin
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Jasonl
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 05:21 pm: |
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That chick holding the wheel...She has her name tag turned around so we can't tell who she is. I bet it's HD's own Hatchet girl Mrs. Henslee of Choptop Auction Stoppage fame!
(look at her..smiling at us in such a mocking way..jerking our chain...) |
S2no1
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 06:20 pm: |
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Anon,
Could we see the math on that please?
Arvel
Who need two more hands and more time |
Tripper
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 06:32 pm: |
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Arvel, I think anon meant to describe it to you with this equation:
[y*a]+[w^n]=yawn
Of course some of us appreciate the underdog and have a stiff woodie waiting to ride the little Firebolt. Have heard second hand a story about EB stuffing a GSXR on the inside of a curve, more than once in a lap. I guess that means the Gixer overtook him on the straight? |
Ralph
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 08:59 pm: |
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Trip, (yawn) that was just plain mean
Aaron, you'll be relieved to know, that I, for one, have not written off Mr Buells latest creation. I just happen to have a slightly jaundiced view. I am very much looking forward to test riding one.
bighairyralph |
Jmartz
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 08:46 am: |
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Does anybody know if demo rides on the XB will be available at the homecoming? I'll be there on the 29th.
Jose |
Mikej
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 09:44 am: |
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Jose,
There was supposed to be a demo event in the Seattle area this or last week, but since there haven't been any posted reports it probably never materialized. There is also a Buell/H-D demo ride fleet at Sturgis, which would be a big event to have one of the new bikes at. Guess we'll have to wait and see if any XB's start appearing at these. I haven't seen anything posted on what will be available to ride at Homecoming. |
Turnagain
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 10:01 am: |
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The word I received is that the Firebolt will 'hopefully' be at Deal's Gap,
'but none to ride'. 
Steve(2) |
Jmartz
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 12:55 pm: |
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Thanks, Mike and Steve. Lets see what transpires. I will be at both the homecoming and Deals Gap events.
Jose
'96 Yellow but dirty S1 |
todd
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 04:14 pm: |
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i think dave gess summed up everybodys dissapointment with the lack of power in the new bike DESIGNED FROM THE GROUND UP with the statement,
" handles like a race bike and PULLS LIKE A 750"
ROTFLMAO! pulls like a 750, thats the problem, its a 984 cc bike! MAKE IT PULL LIKE A 984cc bike for christs sake! hell make it pull like a 1500cc bike and i will buy it.
dave i agree with alot of what u say, but that bike should have come stock with at least 110+ rwhp. more would b better. do what it takes its just stupid not to. They started from scratch they could have done better than that!
the only thing that will make that bike a good seller and attractive to all motorcycle buyers is a $6-7000 price tag. Face it why spend $8-10,000 on that bike, when you could spend $6000 on a 600 sport bike and have more power and handling thats just as good?
i bought my s-1 cause it was a harley powered sport bike. i knew it had limitations againsnt the jap bike s but bought it anyway because of the traditional motor. at the time i would not have bought ANY jap sport bike no matter what the power it had cause i just did nt want jap. the new bike has no tradition, now for me its down to the best handling and power for the dollar, and the firebolt don't fit that bill.
give that bike some real power and i would seriousley consider buying one [if the price is resonable] but right now busa's and gsxr 1000 look real good. and boy does it hurt to say that.
pulls like a 750 LMAO! thats just so poinegent and pathetic all at the same time. |
Aaron
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 04:40 pm: |
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I guess I'm missing your point, todd ... Most 750's are multi's. Even AMA puts 1000cc twins aginst 750cc multis. Do you laugh that the RC51 is comparable to the GSXR750?
Actually, this bike was targeted at the 600cc class. As long as it's about the same size and weight, what's wrong with that? Does it really matter that they did it with a 984cc pushrod twin instead of a 600cc DOHC 4-cylinder, so long as the overall package is the same size and weight? Isn't it the final package that matters? Don't you think there are many people who like the handling of the 600 class machines but prefer a torquey twin? Why do you think the SV650 is so popular?
AW |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 05:27 pm: |
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I haven't written anything off yet, not that I will anyway, but the Firebolt is to me, just another take on a race rep, at least where looks are concerned anyway.
LOOKS are important in my opinion. Without fantastic looks, I'd never have bought an S1.
So, if it's pitched at the 600 market, I'll eat my hat if it's anywhere near as top end fast. As for acceleration, I think all reasonably quick sports type bikes accelerate pretty evenly in a relative world. At the strip or on the track it might be different, and where the 'Bolt is concerned, if the torque effect is to be beleived it is in "roll on" where it will come out on top which is fine but I'm still waiting to se a Buell crack 150.
As for Super 7's, I had a Westfield Seven a couple of years ago. It had a tuned 1600 Ford in it with twin 45 Dellorto's, the full nine yards really, and a fookin' hooligan of a car, but after 110mph it was flat out , which took you about a nanosecond to get there, then you spent the rest of your time looking for twisty roads. Remind me to post a pic of it.
Chuckeeee : You're right, Einstein didn't have a cool Buell to ride, but he did ride Marilyn didn't he ?
Rocket in England |
José_Quiñones
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 09:48 pm: |
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It's fine that Buell considers it a "middleweight" and compares it to 600's, as long as it's PRICED as a 600 middleweight!
If it's priced at $9,500, it will be slower than an R6, but priced higher than an FZ1 ($8,499)? That's doesn't equal sales success to me. Who wants to bet that they will have to use rebates on this bike too? is the difference in price justified? (labor union types don't waste your time here)
Why is the SV650 so popular? It only costs $5,800! |
Aaron
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 10:02 pm: |
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Jose': I agree completely. I hope it competes in all respects, including price. |
Jasonl
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 11:57 pm: |
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The Sv does rock because it's one helluva of a deal. I doubt we'll get a price that low but maybe we'll get lucky. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2001 - 12:19 am: |
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The SV650 is an outstanding bike, but to put it close to the firebolt, I suspect you would have to put $1000 to $2000 into the suspension and brakes alone, and you would still be short on power.
But then you have a decent comparison, so that should put the firebolt at $6800 to $7800 to be even, which would be great, but I doubt will happen.
Though using that as a standard makes just about any BMW or Ducatti look terrible as well, so don't just hammer Buell here.
(IMHO... you guys know a lot more about this then me)...
Bill |
Jmartz
| | Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2001 - 02:46 pm: |
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Rocket:
Your hat is safe on your head, I know it, you know it, the american people know it...
jose |
Henrik
| | Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2001 - 08:34 pm: |
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SV650 - price/handling: Add a $1000 Penske or just a $150 GXSR shock and a $200 Traxxion front end upgrade, and the SV will handle really well. The brakes are actually very, very good and need not be changed. The bike, with a pipe ($650 for a Ti Leo Vinci full system) and rejetting (about $15 worth of parts) pulls about 70Hp at the rear wheel (and 45 foot lbs of torque).
Henrik
P.S. you can pick up a nice used SV for around $4500. |
Tap
| | Posted on Friday, July 27, 2001 - 02:38 am: |
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german PS magazine did a test, 10 bikes against a porsche 911 turbo from 200 kmh to zero...ofcourse the car won, second place went to the sv650, i think third to the buell. |
Tripper
| | Posted on Friday, July 27, 2001 - 02:10 pm: |
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Braking only? phhhhht. I like the ones where they go 0-100-0 (mph). They usually throw a motorcycle in the mix just to embaraass the cars. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2001 - 06:21 am: |
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And speaking of cars again, and in particular those Super 7 types, the latest creation, which has 2, yes 2, ZX9 Kwak motors in it, has just been tested as the fastest accelerating production car in the world from 0 to 60mph, taking the title from the McLaren F1.
3.2 seconds !!!!!
I don't know how familiar you guys are with these motorcycle engined "Super 7's", known as Megablade (Fireblade engine) Megabusa (Busa engine) and Megabird (Blackbird engine), but there's a Buell connection here.
The transmission units are built by Nova which is the company owned and run by original Barton partner and founder, Barry Hart, and he's also the bloke EB bought his Sparton 750 stuff from !
Rocket in England |
Rick_A
| | Posted on Monday, November 12, 2001 - 09:04 pm: |
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Everyone comparing Buells to repli-racers I think are completely missing the point. The inherent flaws of the engines in these bikes are glaring. For all the winers, if that's not what you want/wanted then you shouldn't buy/have bought one! I like that they're imperfect 'cause they just begg for a personal touch. Sure they're more costly than the imports...who cares. I love the idea of such a charismatic and antiquated engine in a capable and state of the art chassis. I'd rather be on a Buell than anything else out there. The XB is a great evolution of the line. It'll probably still get blasted by any current 600 and larger multi on straights...but as long as you have fun inbetween I just don't see that as much of a shortcoming. That's my $0.02 |
Giraffeman
| | Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 12:49 pm: |
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I must agree with you Rick, I have been riding since the age of 14 and have had all sorts of bike from cagiva traillies with ducati engines in them to the SP1 or do you call then RC51 and now a X1 ( I have had inline 4s). And everytime I meet up with the lads (many of whom have R1s Gsxrs and busas), Always bet me on the ride but are very bored at the end of it. Basically many people only think of bhp and top mph but not the fun factor (especially the new boys in the block), which is really the only reason I ride bikes. I sold my SP1 for a buell and some cash! Yes the sp1 is a fantastis bike with silky twin engine but It does not feel right untill you go atleast 90 so that the wind can take the strain off your wrist. Anyways getting back to the point I have more fun at 50 mph than at 175mph and that must count for something especially when it keeps me alive and with a my license!!!
But then why do I try to get the most out of the engine??? |
Outrider
| | Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 08:51 pm: |
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Gentlemen...You could not be more correct in your assessment of Buell's strengths. Real world torque is worth so much more than all the high RPM horsepower in the real world. Much easier to control in the twisties and who really cares about the straights on the road. That's where the RADAR is!
A practical example of what I just said is that Bomber on his M2 and me on the X1 can maintain speed throughout the tight stuff, slide one or both end in the sand, gravel and tar snakes and still be in control. I never rode an XB, but I am confident that if Erik Buell had anything to do with the development of it (ya think?), they will have similar capabilities.
Performance like you find in the inline 4's from 600's through the liter bikes is simply not that easy to control when you are running 8.0+ on the RPM scale off the track. Stuff just happens too quick at those levels and there is virtually no margin for error. Additionally, don't forget that down low in their RPM range (street speeds and sounds), a Buell has them by the gonads.
Add to that the stateside availability and reasonable cost of replacement parts and accessories and a Buell's value increases significantly and that doesn't even begin to include the added value of the aftermarket's contributions.
To date, Buell's haven't been a real big factor on the US road race circuits but the tighter more technical the course, the better the Buell's do. Again, that is usable power for the real world.
Just my never-so-humble opinion, but is was really great to see someone else posting it. |
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