| Author | Message | ||
     Ralph |
Neil, I think I'd go with .060 wall probably 304 for alloy. 'Course, I'm not doing it either (hehehe, gueanie (?) pig again, aint'cha!?). I don't see how clip-ons would be a problem, for the bike that is. I don't think I'd be able to put up with them for long. My bolt-on's are nice but do put a bunch more weight on my wrists. I expect I'll be used to it shortly. The bike handles better to me (more weight on the front end). There's less leverage than the original bars but, I honestly feel more comfortable having the narrower bars. Makes me work on leaning more than pushing. So any way, let me get this straight, you want the bars back further keeping the width and heighth you have now? Or am I totally missing this? | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Ralph, thanks. I need to spend some time mocking a few things up...but I don't see how clipons will work on a X1 with all that bodywork. The xroads makes me stretch out too much, I'm looking for something lower than stock (to loose the riding a tractor) but not 3" forward like the xroads...but the bodywork is COMPLETELY in the way. Guess there's a reason why it has those bars from the factory. The slower steering/more effort of the xroads is something I don't like either. Interesting article in the latest road racing world that proves body english/body steering does NOTHING...it's all countersteering, whether you think you are or not. Interesting, they took a bike and put a second set of controls mounted to the frame...no matter what/how they tried they could barely alter the course of the bike w/ the fixed controls! Some experimentation is in order I think. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Ralph |
Wow, how interesting. I thought I was in body english heaven. Oh well, it makes me feel racey. That's as good as it gets for me. It's going to be tough to get what you're looking for but I think those SV bars will be a good starting place. If there's anything I can do to help let me know. Have you thought about throwing a couple spacers underneath the Xroads? It would move them up a touch but back some as well. bighairyralph | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
It's a very interesting article...when you think about it, what's the 1st thing you learn in MSF course? 2 big wheels make 2 big gyroscopes; and stability comes with speed! So if that is true (which it is) why in the world 'body steering' work? One of those so obvious, you don't realize it till the brick bounces off your forehead. If you'd like I'll be glad to copy and mail it to you (in case you've never seen RRW, it's printed in that HUGE euro-stle paper that will not work on my scanner). I thought about spacers, would look too much like a kludge for my tastes...hey, I'm picky; that's why I rag on Buell so damn much.  I think I'm going to start shopping around at metal fab/welders and see what they want for their services...might just be the right time to invest in a mig setup and learn to do my own. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Blake |
"Interesting article in the latest road racing world that proves body english/body steering does NOTHING...it's all countersteering"  Funny thing how I was able to steer with arms outstretched, hands not touching the bars coming down Trail Ridge Road behind slow moving traffic. Stupid trick, I know. The bike responds extremely slowly, with a significant lag in response, but leaning definitely does not do "NOTHING." Leading the bike into a curve by leaning over and forward at the same time really makes the tight turns so much easier (more comfortable to handle) for me. I very seldom "hang off". I'd be interested to hear an actual racer's commments on this issue. I'd surely agree that countersteering is 100% necessary when turning a bike! Blake (sparedyallfromthemathandphysicsthistimebutdoesexists) PS: Moving this to the quick board. | ||
| Tripper |
NoMath, NoMas. | ||
| Rippin |
Anyone with comments on Corbins seat on their X1 from the passangers point of view would be greatly apprec. Got a hell of an offer on a '01 X1 white/nuc blue w/PM's. Wife says no problem as long as the seat will accomadate her(5'10" 135ish) We go on nice rides 150-300 mile trips on our 99M2 when its not giving me fits(batteries, isolators, etc) but the dealership made me one hell of an offer. Thanks in advanced. Ryan | ||
| Chuck |
Blake. I've not read the RRW article; but I would agree that counter steering is of paramount importance . . . but on the track, it alone can take you only so far. To achieve maximum corner speed, altering the bike's and rider's "collective" center of gravity is necessary; and "hanging off" is the most obvious example of this. Corner strategy can vary greatly; but there's almost no way to optimize performance through "carousel" type turns without this technique. A racer can also change his weight bias by changing how much pressure he puts on the bike through his feet and butt and hands. Lets say a racer is having trouble keeping the front end down on corner exits. Aside from the obvious, he might try moving some of his weight from his butt to his feet. Less experienced racers may not help themselves with extra "body english"; but sooner or later, they will reach a point where a change in center of gravity is neccessary to remain competitive. | ||
| Jiml |
Neil, Just thinking but doesn't AirTech offer some clipons with risers? You might want to go and have a look see. As for me the Crossroads bars work fine on my S1. BHR, Saw your pics over and your S1 is coming along. If I figure this pic posting deal I'll postem. later, jiml you know the trailer trash....Pammy says trailer trash isn't a bad thing... | ||
| Rocklane |
Rippin, Check out B2W! I was re-reading some old volumes and they had a whole write up about the gunfighter and a lady seat on the X1. Rocklane | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Blake, a point of clarification...nothing was a bit of an oversimplification. Yes, under circumstances similar to what you described you can alter the course of a SLOW moving motorcycle, but it's akin to turning an oil tanker. They were attempting to see if controled, usefull steering inputs were available via body steering at various speeds...no joy. Countersteering does 99% of the work. Your example of "leading the bike into a corner" is one of the examples they used of a common misconsception of body steering. Whether you know it or not, your either pushing or pulling on the bars and feeding a steering input. Same offer, I'd be glad to copy it for you if you'd like to read it. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Blake |
I agree, the leading part doesn't get the bike turning to ANY significant degree, what it does is significantly improve control and handling coming into the corner. Call it cornering foreplay. It's analagous to a batter raising his lead foot just before swinging. Raising the foot/leg isn't what drives the ball, but it gets what drives the ball ready to go and in the mood. Maybe some math and physics are in order here?  | ||
| Bomber |
yes, yes please! math and physics! and pumice and paprika! | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Blake, I like that! Cornering foreplay...that's priceless. ============= Rippin...I have a corbin for the X1. I hate it, she loves it. I only put it on when taking her for any length of time....and that ends when she can ride her own bike here shortly! I don't like it cause (a) it looks like crap w/ the lines of an X1; (b) moves me too far back for my tastes; (c) really isn't that comforatable for me cause it's dished too much for my tastes. I'd sell it...$125. In decent shape, one small bit of the leather has come unglued in the center but other than that it's fine. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Tripper |
Blake - let's see the math for the lean angle required of a bike going around the same curve with: a) rider sits centered in the saddle. b) rider hangs off to inside of curve. | ||
| Blake |
Arvel! Help me out here would ya? | ||
| S2no1 |
Blake, Working on it. The reason countersteering is so more effective than body english is the gyroscopic action of the wheels, especially the front wheel. Both will move the bike, but that big gyro will move it faster when you countersteer. Body english has to resist the gyro effect. Moving the bike and riders center of gravity is what body english is about. Been reading Jaehne (a contemporary of Keith Code) he suggests that all body movement should be with the legs to reduce accidental input to the handlebars. Also, as anyone know by watching Freddie Spencer or the best F1 pilots (Jacki something was the one I'm thinking about) the smoother, the faster. Tripper, Damn, now I've got to get out my physics book. Oh well, give me a couple of hours. Recently I read that the reason you move off the saddle is not so you can lean farther, but that you can lean less and increase ground clearance. (You move the CG toward the center of the radius and reduce the centripetal acceleration. Wonder if I can prove that? Arvel | ||
| S2no1 |
All, This will take more than a couple of hours. Get back to you later. Oh, and the acceleration increases as the CG moves toward the center of radius (duh). Arvel | ||
| Tripper |
Makes ya wonder what Mike The Bike could have done if Kenny Roberts had been around to tutor him ;-) | ||
| Airborne |
I started riding at the age of 11 on dirt bikes then onto the street at 16. Yes there is a difference between street and dirt techniques so I'll drop the dirt and keep it on the street. Elements of steering or How to make yourself comfortable and one with your bike. Most of this is what I've learned from experience the rest is from Keith Codes book Twist of the Wrist II and some trainer courses put on by local bike clubs. Too include a two week hands on motorcycle safety class in Germany. Required for a license over there. Boy, they make common every day riders look like a motorcycle stunt show just to pass the course. They won't pass you unless you can do a stoppie. Good positioning: Feet on pegs, doesn't matter if its toes, balls of the feet or heels. The racers use toes so they don't drag the pavement. Knees are tucked into the sides of the bike. More on this later. Butt is planted on the seat with your tail bone slid back until you don't slide back any farther. I know that some people prefer up on the tank but give it a try sometime you will be surprised how much easier the bike handles in a curve. Stomach; Racers position, laid on tank, for touring or cruiser type go ahead and sit up straight. It's okay I'll explain in a minute. Arms should comfortably reach handle bars with elbows bent and tucked to your side. Relax your arms, The most strain you should feel is the clutch and brake in your fingers. Don't lean on your arms. You can ride all day long like this. Taking a corner. I'm disregarding the principle of corner speed, braking, maintaining traction with throttle control etc. Just the steering part. Hanging off the side isn't totally necessary for street. I'll explain each item separately but in practice these items happen all at the same time and in varying degrees of pressure input depending on how aggressive you are taking the corner. The outside foot applies pressure down on the foot peg. The outside knee applies pressure to the side of bike. Press your inside butt cheek down on the seat. Your butt can move to the inside of the corner if you want to but keep pressure on the inside of the seat. All of this has the effect of keeping your center of gravity as low in the bike as you can get it. "Towards the center of the radius" Does that help you out Arvel? Stomach/upper body stays in one place. Regardless of wether your are in a racer or touring/cruising position. (Watch Nicky Hayden sometime. His upper body stays tucked into the bike and doesn't move in a corner.) Arms: Keep them relaxed with elbows bent. Counter steer with very slight pressure. Some people counter steer by slightly pulling the outside handle with finger tips. Others prefer to slightly push the inside handle with there palm. Either one works and is still counter steering. Don't get a death grip on the handles keep your fingers loose. Keeping your fingers loose also helps make it easier and faster to flip that cager the bird when they try to pull out in front of you. Countering the gyro effect. Take a bicycle wheel and hold it by the axle. Get your better half to spin the wheel. Force the wheel left and right. Feel the force kicking back. Now try to steer left and right by applying a slight pressure in the opposite direction first then let the wheel go back to the direction you really wanted it to go. Easier isn't it? Counter steering helps control the front end. Body english helps control the rear end. Watch a dirt tracker some time. His (or her) knee on the outside stays pressed into the tank so they can control the slide through the turn. Same principle on street. Who watched the sears point race last weekend? Did anybody notice how the two guys up front controlled the sliding rear end through the turns while on the power? Lower body english, real low, as in legs and butt. Fetal position for the racer types: this technique will improve your corner speed. For the upright touring/cruising types: This will help with longer rides between stops. Try it once and pretty soon you will being doing it by instinct and become a better rider for it. You will also realize that body english and counter steering can't happen without the other for a smooth fast corner or longevity in touring. As for doing a no hander and steering a bike through a turn. Yes, it works but notice that it is harder than applying a little counter steering. Guess who clued me in on all this after I've been riding for 3 years on street. A Gold winger. For the other 15 years after that I've been a happier motorcyclist. I don't get tired as easily. Darn I gave away my age. | ||
| Airborne |
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention this. Try counter steering at 99% without body english. (Keeping the bike straight up) and see what happens. Ouch! | ||
| Chuck |
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| Chuck |
sorry I "broke" the board | ||
| Bushmasta |
i have a 2000 S3 and would like to change the shift linkage to the 01 style? is this possible? the cost? has anyone done this? I looked at ASB and it's about $250, just curious if a stock set up would be cheaper? Any eliminate their turn signals to the flush mounted type? pics? did you like them? the rear seems simple but the front has indents for the signals not sure how that will turn out. I noticed some real nice clear lensed flush mounted ones on my buddies CBR. They almost look like reflectors only extend maybe a 1/4 inch. thanks for your input fellas. | ||
| Blake |
Someone asked about clip-ons. Check these beauties out. They are by a W. German (now simply "German" I suppose) company. Contact info in the tech pamphlet I received says: Prufbericht Nr. 362-034-82 uber den Sonderlenker fur Kraftrader Typ Telefix III der Firma Weigl, 8897 Pottmes Richard Weigl Vorrichtungs- u. Maschinenbau Schrobenhausener Str. 56 8897 Pottmes The parts list is stamped with a made in? date (Munchen den) of 13. 07. 83 (August 13th, 1983). Guess they sat on the shelf for a while?     The following added on 06/16/01: The Napolean Bar End Mirrors shown above are adjustable so that they can be positioned (on the fly too) above or below the bars. I think ASB and Sport Twin carry them. They are a helluva deal at only $30 a piece compared to some others I've seen. I've found that the Telefix III clip-ons are available via Spec-II Research and Engineering, web site is http://www.specii.com. The receipt from 07/11/00 shows price including shipping as $166.73. I recommend calling ASB or Sport Twin to see if they can get them first. We gotta support those guys! The following added on 09/26/02: These bars are now called the Telefix "Profi" clipons. Be sure to order the spacers if you want them. They are optional. Blake | ||
| Ccryder |
Blake: Laverda used to make a set with similar adjustability. I have a set on my 79' 500 Guzzi. These bars mount in the normal clamp on top of the top triple tree. Seems like someone might be able to make some good $'s if they brought those out again. later Neil S. | ||
| Airborne |
Munchen translates to Munich. How much did the clip ons cost? Also, are they as adjustable as they look? | ||
| Gundog |
Those look very similar to a set I had on a Honda Interceptor back in '85. I believe they were sold under the Telefix brand name. The company advertised in the back of Cycle World for years. Might still be doing so. As I remember, the bars were expensive, but well-made, and very adjustable. Dale 99M2 | ||
| Rocklane |
Bushmasta, I know you can buy the stock 2001 shifter for 2000 model buells because my dealer tried to sell me one for my 2000 X1. I personally liked the Banke shifter better so I bought it for 250.00. The stock 01 shifter is around 100.00 dollars. Hope this helps. Rocklane P.S I did not like the stock 01 shifter toe peg but I understand that you can grind it off and drill a hole to put any toe peg on the new shifter. | ||
| Ccryder |
Just an FYI on the 01' shifters, and for that matter the forged "C" shifters. THe toe peg is screwed into the shifter arm. It is threaded for 5/16"-24. I removed my old peg with a set of pliers and purchased an H-D peg that is about 1" in diameter. Only difference is, the H-D shifters use a 5/16-18 bolt, not hte 5/16-24 that Buell uses. I am very happy with my 01' shifter on my 00' X-1 RS. I have gone one step further and replaced the plastic bushings with bronze bushings from ASB. Neil S. |
