| Author | Message | ||
     Bomber |
it lives in the primary cover . . . there's a hole in the cover the shift shaft (doen't say that five times fast) passes through . . . .. I answered this on the other thread you posted it on (I fergit which one) . . . smooth side out, install before you install the primary cover . . . .use a socket as a driver, but don't wail on the little thing . . . . . . just seat it lightly in the hole | ||
| Ezblast |
Cool! Thanks Bomber - I owe you a few beers! If your ever in SF just let me know! You can ignore the quick board thread since you answered my final questions here! Thanks! I'll be able to wrap this up and put on a belt and go ride! GT - JBOTDS! EZ  | ||
| Bomber |
EZ -- no charge, brother . . . .I owe this board so darned much I'll never be able to repay it! but I will look you up next time i'm in SF, count on it! | ||
| Al_lighton |
Wait a second John.... "install before you install the primary cover"...really? I always put the cover on and then install the seal afterwards. It is easy to damage that seal, so I've found it better to remove the old one, install the primary cover without the seal there, and then after the cover is in place, put a small tip of a baggie over the splined shaft so that the splines don't damage the seal lips, then slide it on and gently seat it by tapping it in around the perimeter a little at a time. Getting the primary cover on is a bit of a pain, what with the gasket wanting to fall off, the two dowel pins at the front and back wanting to fall out, and the primary chain wanting to be lifted over the adjuster...worrying about that seal getting nicked on the splines is just one too many things to do while getting the cover on. That said, I HAVE reused that seal when I've had to take the primary cover back off right after installing it, and I have put the cover on with the seal installed without damaging the seal, but it isn't my preferred method. Al | ||
| Bomber |
Al -- I'll certainly bow to your experience and status a minor Buell diety {or, at least a holy man in the place of worship, grin} . . . . that said, I've never had to replace the seal (except for when I removed it to get the grumblegrumble powder coating off the primary cover), and I've removed, and then replaced, the primary many times without leaks. a little dab of loctite or rubber cement on the end of the dowels will keep them seated during reassembly (check that, tiny, not little), and the new metal gasket stays put very nicely -- no pain at all, specially if you've put the scoot on a stand to hold it vertical I spose it comes down to whether you hold your tongue on the LEFT side of your mouth while torquing fasteners (clearly the preferred method) or the RIGHT side . . . | ||
| Kalamamarkm2 |
2002M2L...8500 miles...I've owned the beast for about a month.. I took my daughter for her first ride yesterday to take some movies back. On the way home, I noticed my rear brake was non-existent. We stopped for ice cream, we came out, and I had a big 'ol puddle under my bike... It looks like the primary gasket has failed. I live in the twisties, and it felt odd to have an SUV tailgating me on the way home...with no rear brake, oil on the tire and my daughter on the back, I think a Rokon might have been able to pass me.. I've got to pick up my service manual (back ordered) tommorow, but I thought I'd post here and see if there is anything special I should be looking for. Is this something I should expect as 'normal' from the beast? My uncle laughed when he saw the tray full of oil under the bike, and said that "I guess it really IS a Harley..." Any input on the best parts and or processes in fixing this would be appreciated. Also would like input on rear brake pucks, Thanks a bunch.. Mark | ||
| Reepicheep |
Its not unusual to have the primary gasket fail, the new Harley part, or the old Cometic part, are what you want to replace it. Basically one of the high end metal with silicone (?) coated gaskets. Even if they did not work better (and they do), you would still want one because they are SOOO much easier to install. Check closely however, it is also not unusual to have your rear rocker box go (top of the engine) and have a subtle drool of oil down the engine that could look like a leaking primary. You are right at the milage this would typically start (for the rear rocker box, you have another 1000 miles before the front goes  ), so make sure the oil is not coming from up top. Its an easy job, you need a new gasket and a torque wrench with allen head sockets. If someone has not replaced your derby cover torx bolts with allen heads, you will need the right sized torx driver as well. The manual will talk you through it fine. When you button it all back up, if you use Mobil 1 Gear oil, you will find your shifting improved significantly over the Harley sport trans stuff. With the new metal gaskets, most of the tricks are no longer necessary. I just did this job this weekend to solve a leaking starter gasket problem. When reassembling, put in all bolts slightly less then finger tight, leave wobble room. When all are in, go one pass around on like every third bolt making them finger tight, until all have been finger tightned. Then make another pass around torquing, again alternating sides on the bolts. Kinda like you do when you put tire nuts back on. I suggest this because I had a mystery event where I put in the top two bolts finger tight, then put in the rest of the bolts finger tight, then torqued them around the clock (with those top two last), and by the time I got back to thos top two they were stripped out of the case. I have no idea how this is possible (short of developing super human powers for finger tightening), there is nothing there for the cover to pivot on, but it happened. Another gotcha is when you pull off that derby cover (smaller circular cover) loosen those bolts a few turns at a time around the circle as well. If you just yank to top three bolts, the whole cover will pivot and lever up, binding that third bolt, which if you have the original torx fastener on it, will strip at a sideways glance. If this happens, drill the head off, pop the cover, and there should be enough bolt exposed to get vice grips on. Your harley dealer should have chrome plated allen head bolts to replace these torx abominations blister packed and hanging on the wall. edited by reepicheep on June 14, 2004 | ||
| Bomber |
strongl;y suggest you go to the hardware store and pick up four 1/4-24 ss allen heads to replace the spawn of the devil torx bolts on the derby cover . . . . . . .they are a pita, and the heads WIL strip out, at some point | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Also, Be very careful with the shifter shaft seal. When reinstalling the cover you can easily nick the seal lip with the splines on the shift shaft. put a single wrap of thin tape around the splines to minimize the issue. | ||
| Kalamamarkm2 |
Hey...thanks for all the tips...I got 'er done! The gasket was out and saggy between the 'oddball' allen bolt and the next one to the front. Reep..while I was there flopping around on the floor, I did notice that my rocker gaskets are starting to weep, also. Not the Valdez class leak like the primary, but just a seep..more so in the rear than the front. Looks like I get to find out whats under those covers next! I changed the oil soaked rear pucks with some EBC HH sintered bronze ones(Cleaned the rotor and stuff good with brake clean). The rear brakes have returned to 'normal' but I'm still kinda dissapointed with the amount of effort ya gotta give for the amount of braking you get.. Anyone know how much a dealership charges to change the primary gasket and/or the rocker box gaskets? I'm trying to justify a lift, and if I gotta take this thing apart and put it back together every month or so, it sure would be nice to not be flopping around on the floor... Mark edited by KalamaMarkM2 on June 15, 2004 | ||
| Ezblast |
I tried installing the seal twice on the cover while the cover was on - no go. Took the cover off, a few taps - on, then eyeballed shaft threw the cover's shaft hole, and fit cover back on without a hitch or snag. Adjusted everything, then spent saturday doing some heat cycles - lol - retorqued. Everything seems ok so I'm happy not to leave her worse than when I found her, and have collected a few tools I'm sure I'll need someday. Thanks guys! There's a lot these manuals don't cover - lol Got Thump?! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ edited by ezblast on June 15, 2004 | ||
| Reepicheep |
Congrats Mark, no idea what the dealer would charge. I doubt that you would make it out for much under $75. After your first couple rides, slap a torque wrench back on all those primary cover bolts and snug them to the proper torque. As EZBlast suggests, the heat cycles can loosen 'em up. | ||
| Bomber |
and the benefit is that heat cycle generation can be BIG DAMN FUN! | ||
| Philip |
buy the lift! you will never regret it. i have the handy table lift that is air powered and with the front wheel clamp. still need to build a setup to hang the bike to do front end work and such. | ||
| Jaybooch |
I've read many posts which mention replacing the main shaft oil seal, but I'm hoping someone can offer a little more insight. My 99 M2 is losing oil from the engine and gaining oil in the primary. My guess is the oil seal has gone bad. Has anyone replaced the oil seal? I know that I'll need a sprocket locking tool and a clutch spring compressor. What size socket will I need for the sprocket, and will I need any other "special" tools. After bringing my bike to a local shop and hearing the so-called mechanic ask me who made Buell, I decided that I will try to do as many of my repairs as possible. I would appreciate any input. Thanks! | ||
| Aaron |
What you're talking about is the sprocket shaft seal. The mainshaft is part of the transmission, the sprocket shaft is the left side of the flywheel assembly. You don't need a clutch spring compressor, nor do you really need a sprocket locking tool, particularly if you have an air impact wrench, which I highly recommend. The sprocket shaft nut is 1-1/8", right hand threads. The clutch basket nut is 1-3/16", left hand threads. To access the clutch basket nut, just remove the snap ring that holds the adjuster screw & throwout bearing in place. There it is, no need to disassemble the clutch. There's a tool for putting the new seal in properly, and it's nice because it puts it in straight and to the correct depth, but many people have put it in without the tool successfully. The tool puts the seal in with the open side of the seal outward. Without the tool, you almost have to put it in the other way. I've seen it done both ways without it leaking. You might pick up a new spacer, too, they tend to get a wear mark from the seal. If there's something restricting your crankcase breathing, it won't matter how good that seal is. Get some Loctite red for putting those two nuts back on. The sprocket shaft nut is supposed to be like 250 ft-lbs, most people use the German torque spec on it, the clutch basket nut is 75 ft-lbs, put the bike in gear and stand on the brake while you torque it (backwards). Pick up a new primary cover gasket (the good kind, coated metal) as well as a shifter shaft seal. You might also think about replacing those torx head bolts on the derby cover. I generally get new screws for the chain inspection cover, too, they don't last long, as well as all the rubber o-rings. Oh, and replace that chain tensioner with the new improved one if you haven't already, it's a disaster waiting to happen. 39975-90A, about $15. | ||
| Aaron |
Oh, on that shifter shaft seal, remove your old one before you put the cover back on. Put the cover on, put a little tape over the splines on the shaft, grease the inside of the seal, carefully slide it on, and then seat it with a 9/16 deep socket. I generally put a little gasket sealer goop around the outside perimeter of it before pushing it into place, but that's just me. | ||
| Jaybooch |
Aaron - Thank You for your in-depth info. It's exactly what I needed. I thought that I would need those specialty tools, and I'm glad that I was wrong. Thanks for the part number on the chain tensioner. I have yet to buy the parts catalog. I bought my M2 used and I'm learning more about it all the time. It sounds as if you've been through this repair before. Any idea of a cause (you mentioned restricted cranckcase breathing) or is this fairly common to the M2? Thanks for the help!! | ||
| Aaron |
No worries, mate. Another aggravating factor could be excessive blow-by. So if you change the seal and you know your breather isn't blocked and you still have an issue, you might run a leak-down test. Common issue? Oh, I dunno, not as rare as it should be for sure, but it's not a big deal. If everything's in good shape you shouldn't have an issue. Mostly I know about this kinda stuff not from repairing leaky sprocket shaft seals, but because at any given time we generally have a couple XL/Buell motors torn apart in the shop. Race motors, big bore projects, etc. Good luck with the M2, I have a '99 myself. Really like the bike. It's coming up on 6 years old (made in August of '98). Amazing thing is, it still has it's original battery, working fine. I've never in my life got more than 3 years from a motorcycle battery until this one. | ||
| José_quiñones |
Just did this little operation myself with the help of a couple of friends this weekend. I think I did everything right, I'll find out soon enough. The existing seal was toasted, it was the old style with the metal ring. It was a pain to get out without scoring the crankcase, that was the hardest part of the process. The new seal (part # ends in 74A) seemed to be better just looking at it. The air impact wrench is the key, it makes it much simpler than it would otherwise be. I used Loctite red but the number was red 262 instead of red 271 as the manual recommends (or was it the other way around?) edited by josé_quiñones on June 21, 2004 | ||
| Reepicheep |
I had that same problem José, that aluminum sealing surface on the crankcase is soft as butter. Fortunately, there is a LOT of surface available, so mine still sealed fine. If somebody managed to get the old metal one out without scratching that thing up, this would be a great place to post any tips. | ||
| Jmartz |
The sprocket shaft has a sleeve upon which the seal rubs. By removing this part (comes out with your fingers) you expose the inner lip of the seal. With a slightly bent flat blade screwdriver and little block of softwood (for leverage an case protection) you can lift the seal by going around and prying up 3 or so times. You need not touch the case at all and damage the outer seal surface. | ||
| New12r |
I just got my Firebolt XB12R and am due for the 1k service, I am getting a service man. but am impatient and want to get riding faster. Has anyone adjusted the primary chain on theses bikes? I have a little jerk at low speeds that is really annoying and its not the engine. Any help is appreciated, thanks. | ||
| José_quiñones |
Yes, José, I remember you mentioning that.... | ||
| Bluelightning |
See Jose, just a little prying and we had it out.  No faith.... lol | ||
| José_quiñones |
 | ||
| Pete_o |
A belated thanks for help with my gasket problem, after a couple months of screwing around I've gotten my S3 buttoned up and back on the road. I put Mobil 1 in the primary, shifting still feels stiff compared to my airhead BMW, but maybe they are all like this. This board is the best. Pete | ||
| Coopy |
I have an 01 X-1. I picked up a vibration and a noise from the clutch area. I adjusted my primary chain to spec per the manual. Noise and vibration are still there. I'm thinking it's in the clutch basket area, anyone had same sort of situation? Thanks, Coopy. | ||
| Henrik |
Coopy; I can't remember when the primary chain tensioner was changed/beefed up, but I think it would be worth a look?? Henrik | ||
| Coopy |
Henrik, I'm gonna have my mechanic guy take it for a beat run and see what's going on in there. Thanks, Coopy |
