| Author | Message | ||
     Trenchtractor |
Given that I could easily return the airbox cover back to a sealed type using some aluminium tape, I spent a couple of hours last night marking and drilling a quite a few holes in it. Looks very much like swiss cheese. So, the result is the bike feels exactly like the curve here...  Pasted straight from the Hilbilly site. At the moment, I am using the stock velocity stack, Stock muffler with the valve open, stock ECM, K&N race filter. You can really feel that dip in the torque curve around 4k, but then you would not believe the difference from 4.5k... Holy 5h1te. It's like it gets it's second wind. And the intake roar is AWESOME. Best thing about the roar is i can't hear the lifters banging around any more. Sounds much more business like. Encourages you to rev it, more like riding the 9, and it's VERY ANTI-SOCIAL. Now all I gotta do is replicate the Jardine exhaust... Either that or find an importer here in Australia, but I can't see that happening, so I think I'm a little on my own. Who owns a Jardine?? Anyone... At least now you all know someone has swiss cheesed the airbox on a 12. edited by trenchtractor on July 25, 2004 | ||
| Blake |
Jens, Thanks for your thoughtful commentary. Obviously your FAST system brings something significant to the party as it doubled the peak HP gains of the other two systems. Congratulation on that.  I don't think you will lose ANY business. The dyno charts we desire are those that Mark was so careful to properly control in these tests. Speaking for me, my concerns are to see also what a simple airbox mod will provide, to clarify what the as-tested stock/baseline configuration of the airbox actually was, and to make known my opinion of the integrity/business practices of Mr. James and his cohort. Thanks again, Blake | ||
| Martin |
What a fascinating subject! All of Englishman 119's work shows only the tip of the iceberg of the amount of time needed to develop parts that function on different bikes in different countries using different petrols. I was interested as I have a FAST system on order. I have spoken to the user who is pleased with the performance increase but feels the intake noise may be too much for him. I have also spoken to one who feels that the noise is part of the benefit of the system! That's why you just have to accept that you can't please all the people all the time. I am typing this with one eye shut as I recover from concussion but the time in hospital got me thinking about this intake-system thing. I am collecting parts to make a moving stack that may give the best of two (Not all) worlds. since I cannot draw it and post it you'll have to follow my description of how it might work on my 9: The existing air-box is kept, but the under-face is painted silver or white. The existing stack is cut-down to leave a rolled ring around the top of the throttle body about 1/2" proud of the floor. In the 'over 5K revs(or whatever works)' position, a 12-style cone in the lid is covered by a traditional stack-shaped that has an o/d at the bottom slightly smaller than the inlet 'ring' described above, and which ends about 2" above it. This gives conditioned flow into a short stack for top-end power A solenoid or stepper motor (I have a spare Aprillia two-stroke power-valve solenoid with about 1/2" of movement) moves the upper outer down into the lower (via a parallelogram linkage to keep it straight)to give conditioned (from the dimple)flow into a longer stack for bottom-end grunt. I am sharing this because:- a/ I stole the basic idea from MV's new bike b/ I may not get chance to build it if this double vision goes away c/ much cleverer people than me on the badweb can work out how to identify the wire and voltage to trigger the system with and at, suggest a different (vacuum-operated?) power-source that would work better, etc etc. I think that this would be better on a 12 as it could be linked-in with the EXup valve and also use the existing box-top. I envisage a whole army of back-yard machinists rushing out to their fully-equipped workshops now to bring my idea to life, just as Corey Whatever claims he thought of it first! Martin | ||
| M1combat |
I thought I thought of that first . I was just going to use a Drummer take the actuator motor and put it to use doing this though . That way it would be controlled by the ECM. | ||
| Alex |
@ m1combat: You said: "It's known fact that cool air/fuel makes more power. ..............Not because I don't respect the designer's knowledge or his time, but because of shady business practices. I'm certainly not one of the "elder" members of this board, but I do remember the stuff that came from the Brion-James company. I'll respectfully decline to do business with them. IF they were the pioneers of the physics behind cool air actually working I might give them some of my money for that research, but to just take a proven method of power enhancement, add a pretty piece of metal and tell people that it's the stack that gives the power increase (that's the lion's share of the price right?) is shady if you ask me." I say: Obviously You mix up things. Itīs not the Corey James system that uses a thermal blanket but the Hillbilly FAST system. The thermal blanket is an additional feature of the system. The main purpose of FAST is to completely eliminate the stock air box because this is the bottleneck. So the main part of FAST is the aluminum stack which is NOT a velocity stack with K&N filter element. Do You still think this is shady business practice? | ||
| M1combat |
I guess I just wish that I could buy the components from them. Maybe shady wan't quite the right term. I thought both of them came with some form of cold air intake, I was mistaken. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
ok im hearing all this stuff about this system and stuff is the fast system good or not???? | ||
| M1combat |
I would say yes. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
so what system is every one bashing? | ||
| Stealthxb |
2Win Induction Technologies The SVVS and Vortex Cone | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
oh ok so if i was to go with any of the systems other than a 12 airbox go with the fast system? | ||
| Stealthxb |
That's the way I will increase my air flow once I can increase my cash flow! | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
im asking cuz i thik the fast system if it is good would look good under the sx cover and i was going to putt them on my bike when i got back but if it isnt that good i dont wanna waste my money and time | ||
| Darthane |
The FAST system, according to the tests posted above, increased peak HP the most. It's not necessarily that we're bashing the SVVS SYSTEM - more the person selling it. Aside from a very few people, pretty much everyone that's had a brush with Mr. James despises him. | ||
| Trenchtractor |
Just got home, took the cosmetic tank outer of and you should have felt the airbox lid... HOT at the right rear corner... Definately could do with some insulation. | ||
| Barkandbite |
OK, so if we can get back to the TECH and focus on it rather than the how pissed off or suspicious everyone is of Mr. James (I could care less, I'm interested in the results of the test,) I still maintain that what we ALL need to know is what the AF ratios are across the RPM range for both the SVVS and the FAST system. I originally stated that while both the FAST system and the SVVS "looked" impressive, I was leary since it could be at the expense of those little annoying things called pistons and that equally annoying event called pre-ignition...I want to see the curves and the A/F ratio, otherwise this test is useless and can only be described, despite Englishman's kind efforts, as unfounded/unproven gossip. At this point, it's as bad as no tech at all. I am NOT (before anyone gets upset) disparaging Englishman's reputation or efforts, but I can say that I have pictures that aliens shot JFK -- but if I said that without proof:  Corey aside, the SVVS still made a HP increase. So did the FAST system. The question is what's the best bang for the buck here IF the A/F ratio is reasonable? Chris | ||
| Trenchtractor |
Bark, firstly, I'm with you on the whole get back to the tech of the issue. But seriously, there are a lot of you guys who are basically demanding SOMEONE else spends time and money doing R&D so YOU can have free information. Don't get me wrong, I love free information when I can get my hands on it, but I'm not asking for it. Just ask Bubba and Kevin about the costs of R&D... I mean at least I tried to offer them some sort of loyalty deal to make the drummer available in Australia... 5h1t I called Kevin IDD at 1:30 in the morning here on a work night and I stood to make nothing out the deal other than get a reasonably priced drummer. I hold nothing against them for keeping the details close to their chest... Who knows what I'd do with the info once I got it, I don't think I'd offer it up either. Point is, I have only seen one post here sugesting a slush fund being generated to help support this kind of testing. There were a couple of people asking how airbox mods on the 12 would effect performance. I drilled holes in mine that afternoon after some reseach led me to believe it'd work, just to see if it would. Did anyone else?? I can't afford the dyno time to research this, can you?? So the best some of us can offer is that we had the GUTS to try it and how it felt to us. An airbox lid is $111- here. That's just the lid. "I am NOT (before anyone gets upset) disparaging Englishman's reputation or efforts, but I can say that I have pictures that aliens shot JFK -- but if I said that without proof" English has taken a great step, offered heaps of new info, promised to post dyno charts when he can and yet somehow that's not good enough??? Who'd bother... Have you got pic's?? You know if YOU don't believe the results as posted, do your own R&D. PS, wanna talk about pinging, ask me about my FACTORY RACE KIT (returned under warantee)... I never heard pinging so bad, and I used to drive highly tuned air cooled VW's running 10 degrees and more advance. SOMEHOW NOW I FEEL MUCH BETTER, THANKS | ||
| Darthane |
Dude, both of you, calm down! It's the nature of the BBS beast to get off track. As to R&D and the like - you're not the first people on this board or elsewhere to put up your own time and money towards an end that benefits others. The people that have done and will do it again are being selfless - ie, they do not ask for NOR EXPECT monetary rewards for their services. No one is forcing anyone to spend their own time and money to benefit someone other than themselves, that's a choice that's solely up to them. If you do something like that and feel that you should get something in return - DON'T POST THE RESULTS, for crying out loud. | ||
| Jerseyguy |
Darthane - You had to remind me..... I spent about $1,200 proving to myself that my meticulous (and beautiful) aluminum duplicate of the rubber stack gave identical results on the dyno at Tillys.  | ||
| Glitch |
Jerseyguy, I bet you'd do it again. I enjoyed your experiment, and the thread that goes with it. A real thoughtful process went into that thread, and one I still think about. I still think that the dimples (think golf ball) would help air velocity. Even though you didn't get results that you wanted, I thank you for you time and effort, and the thoughtfulness to post your results. | ||
| Jerseyguy |
Glitch - LOL. Yeah I'm sure I would. I actually did bead blast the thing along the lines of that dimpling idea. Its on the bike now and I'm sure it added at LEAST 10 hp. Its like when you wash & detail your car - it feels so much faster ..... | ||
| Buckinfubba |
NOT THAT i AM RIGHT AND i MIGHT BE WRONG BUT, THE ONE FACTOR THAT IS LEFT OUT OF THIS IS A PRESSURIZED AIRBOX THAT IS THERE WHILE MOVING DOWN THE ROAD. and not there on a dyno, even with a air blower in the room. all these dyno results may actually be better than stated in a real world function. so now theres a spanner to throw in the works at the think tank. its been proven before that actually moving with a ram air bike shows more than whats on the dyno because of a pressurized air box | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
@ Alex and M1: One of the things that was said about the Corey-James intake to make it a selling point was that it would have an optional heat blanket that was suppossed to offer more protection then "the oven mit material of the other systems" | ||
| M1combat |
Maybe that's what I was reading... Thanks for pointing that out though Mikel. | ||
| Ted |
Anyone know if the XB9 / XB12 share the same stock V-stack ? If not, it would be interesting to see the difference on a XB9. | ||
| Easyflier |
The stacks are not interchangable between the 9 and 12, different sized throttle bodies. I've heard that the stack on the 12 is a little shorter but I don't know that for certain. | ||
| Johncr250 |
The Kosco Race bikes don`t run an airbox cover. They just use a round airfilter mounted directly to the velocity stack. They also remove the plastic piece next to the gas fill cap on the outer airbox cover. They don`t use a pressurized airbox like stock XB`s. They wouldn`t be using this setup unless it worked. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
and they are at wide open throttle lots of the time. the tilley's bike had the same set up you talk about. but we are on the street, and the debate is still out.Most other race bikes use the air box for pressure. its called a plenum area. but like I always say now days, what the heck do I know. | ||
| Darthane |
Wow, that last post came out sounding a lot harsher than I intended. My apologies. Doing R&D for our benefit like Jerseyguy and Englishman did requires three things: Time, Resources, and Motivation. You can overcome the lack of time by simply performing the act over a longer period. Lack of motivation means that while it may get done, it will not be the best it could have been. Lack of resources is much more difficult to overcome. Quite simply, if you lack the parts or the money necessary to get them - you aren't going anywhere. Luckily, Jerseyguy had all three, and Englishman's only bottleneck was time - but the tests got done and we all benefitted from it. If you're doing something to benefit Buellers as a whole and lack resources but have the time and motivation to do things properly, then simply ask up front for help - you never know what you can get until you ask. | ||
| Glitch |
Wow, that last post came out sounding a lot harsher than I intended. My apologies. The youth today  |
