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Buell Forum » Knowledge Vault (tech, parts, apparel, & accessories topics) » Troubleshooting (Poor Starting/Running/Handling/Ride Issues) » Archive through May 13, 2012 » Italian dramas » Archive through October 14, 2011

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Author Message   Flexx Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2011 - 11:24 am:        Hi everybody, I'm an italian desperate guy. Here's my problem: one month ago my 2006 xb9sx - full stock but K&N air filter - didn't start. I turned the key at 6.30 a.m. and the fan started like the engine was on fire. The bike didn't want to start (the starter engine was working but the bike didn't turn on). I thought it was the rear cylinder temp. sensor, so I changed it, but nothing happend. So i bought the ECMSPY cable and software, and this is was is teling me now: trouble code 11: tps to ground. and this is the screenshot form ECMSPY http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/6/img1704vu.j pg/ what should i do??? It's one month now that i'm not using it and i'm going crazy! (Message edited by Flexx on October 09, 2011)   Jramsey Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2011 - 11:30 am:        TPS is way off, should look like this. Be sure to back out the idle screw completely plus 1 turn when doing the reset. (Message edited by Jramsey on October 09, 2011)   Froggy Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2011 - 12:33 pm:        Wow, you have something major going on there, possibly a defective ECM or a bad connection or ground. I noticed it thinks your Engine Temperature is way too high, which is why it ran the fan. Both that and the Inlet Air Temperature should be around the ambient temperature before starting the bike, like in Jramsey's picture. I would start by checking all the grounds for the wiring harness.   Akbuell Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2011 - 12:38 pm:        The trouble code shows a problem w/the TPS. As Jramsey said, try a TPS reset first. If your throttle plate is open to 20ish deg, no wonder it won't start. That being said, your ECMSpy shot shows some Really High inlet and engine temps for a bike that won't start. Also, your TPS volts to TPS deg ratio is not right. Time to consider a new TPS sensor, and time to carefully inspect the wiring harness and ECM body and connectors. Hope this helps. Please let us know how it goes, Dave.   Flexx Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2011 - 12:39 pm:        I can't believe that the TPS is so wrong. The bike was running well before that morning, so I'd like to check other things before than resetting it (it might be ok even if it doesn't look like on the screenshot). Froggy, where would you start to look at? I really have no idea what to check... (Message edited by Flexx on October 09, 2011)   Flexx Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2011 - 12:54 pm:        Thank you Akbuell, I'll immediately check what you said. I'll keep you updated!   Flexx Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2011 - 01:36 pm:        I just had a look at the wires under the seat (later i'll check the ones on the front of the bike) and everything seems fine. Also the fuses look ok and work fine). The ecm contacts look fine too.   Two_seasons Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2011 - 02:09 pm:        Check your battery UNDER LOAD, not just voltage. Check ignition and kill switch wiring too. As you are pushing the start button, move your ignition switch left and right SLIGHTLY and see if that helps. Also rock your kill switch back and forth several times before you try to start it.   Akbuell Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2011 - 02:53 pm:        Some thoughts- Plug in a low amp battery charger, the ECMSpy cable and program, and turn on the ign switch and stop/run switch to run. Start at the ECM. Push/pull/tug on the ECM in its mount. Same with the ECM connectors. Turn the handlebars back and forth. Tug/wiggle various connectors and grounds. Watch the ECMSpy screen while doing this, and see if there is a change. Could give a better idea of where to take a closer look.   Flexx Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2011 - 03:25 pm:        Thank you guys, you're giving me great tips! I'll do all these things later . If you need any suggestion on italian things, feel free to ask me!   Akbuell Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2011 - 06:09 pm:        Most important, get the factory service manual, if you don't have one. A quick check, to confirm we and ECMSpy are not leading you down the wrong path ..... Unplug the TPS. Turn the ign and stop/run switches on. Confirm you have 5V to the TPS. In my X-1 and XB manuals, it will be the R/W wire (you will need to confirm for your bike, as my XB manual is for an '08). Then confirm that the ground wire (BK/W in my manuals) does connect to ground. If either of those checks are bad ..... 1. You have a wiring problem 2. The ECM is faulty   Flexx Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2011 - 09:14 pm:        tomorrow i'll buy a battery charger, i'm starting the bike bridging the battery with my car's one and it's a nogood thing at all. by the way, i tried to pull\push\toggle some wires and connectors from under the seat, the ignition switch etc... but nothing changed.. the fan still works. I did it without ECMspy, but I don't think it would have noticed something. Tomorrow I'll try everything you said, even the wires in the front part of the bike, with ECMspy and the charger plugged.. we'll see.   Harleyelf Posted on Monday, October 10, 2011 - 09:36 am:        Your inlet air temperature cannot be 120 degrees Celsius! I fear to inform you your ECM seems to be cracked. Have you checked to see that is is not partially unplugged?   Flexx Posted on Monday, October 10, 2011 - 11:54 am:        I unplugged it, and replugged it. and nothing changed. Connectors seem perfect.   Flexx Posted on Monday, October 10, 2011 - 06:50 pm:        I really think that the ECM is cracked. I tried to pull, move, bend, push every single cable, but the fan still goes, and if i move the throttle, the tps is still the same. I'll try to find someone with the same bike to try his ECM. Can you tell me if there are some risk doing it? Can I just plug another ECM from another XB9SX and switch on the bike? Should i resent anything? Does the person who gives it to me, risk anything? Thank you guys, precious help you're giving me!   Jramsey Posted on Monday, October 10, 2011 - 08:43 pm:        "Can you tell me if there are some risk doing it? Can I just plug another ECM from another XB9SX and switch on the bike? Should i resent anything? Does the person who gives it to me, risk anything?" TPS reset will be the only thing required. Should start anyway( without TPS reset) just run like crappy/rough. Should be no risk to the borrowed ECM. If it doesn't fix it the TPS sensor may be toast and also check the throttle butterfly shaft, been some that broke.   Froggy Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2011 - 01:12 am:        An ECM off any 2005-2007 XB9 will work. A 2004-2007 XB12 ECM can work too if reprogrammed.   Flexx Posted on Tuesday, October 11, 2011 - 04:33 am:        You're giving me great news! I found a guy from Rome with a 2005 ecm to borrow me. I'll pick it up tomorrow Yesterday I tried to clean the TPS sensor but nothing changed. The strange thing is that I tried to make the diagnosis with full open throttle, but it still say the same 24%   Flexx Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2011 - 09:11 am:        bad news, it's not the ECM...   Bike_pilot Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2011 - 09:29 am:        I would check the wiring over carefully. A loose or corroded ground connection, or broken or shorted wires could cause your problems.   Flexx Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2011 - 09:47 am:        Yes, i'll buy the connector spray and new fuses, when i'll get out of work. then i'll check again all cables... i'm really sick of it   Sparky Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2011 - 01:51 pm:        I had a related problem on my late model Corvette in which there would be rapid error messages displayed on the Driver Information Center screen such as Shocks Inoperative, Low Fuel, Service Fuel System, Service Vehicle Soon as well as warning icons on the dash: ABS, Active Handling, Alarm lock going on and off plus the Water Temp, Oil Pressure & Fuel gauges showing 0. As if all these things going on were not enough, the air conditioning would stop cooling and start blowing hot air. There was also one instance during this period where the car would not start for about a half an hour. It would go through the start sequence with the dash instruments lighting up and sweeping but no click or anything from the starter motor. A repair shop tried jumpering the battery with a starter power pack but that did nothing too. These symptoms went on for about two weeks when someone on the Corvette Forum suggested checking the ground points to resolve a different problem they were having. Long story short, I found two ground points in the engine bay that had small gauge wires on ring lugs. They looked kind of dirty so I decided to clean up the connections. One of the studs on the frame was fairly clean at the mating surfaces as were its wire connections. The other however was corroded and the mating surfaces coated with a black substance (paint?). After cleaning and shining up the mating surfaces at those ground points, all the above symptoms ceased and the car has been 100% reliable again. So, don't just spray contact cleaner on those connectors. Take them apart and check the contacts for corrosion, dirt, loose crimps, etc. I can't stress how important it is to have clean grounding points. The ECM relies on clean low-voltage signals from the engine sensors and a stable ground reference at the various ground points. Where you can find ground points on the frame, take them apart and clean the mating surfaces until they shine before reassembling them. If you can find just one dirty ground point and fix it, that could be the one thing that is causing all your driveability problems.   Akbuell Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2011 - 02:32 pm:        A faulty ECM was certainly a possibility. No change with a known good one means we can take that off the list of usual suspects, at least for now. Sparky has good advice. Buells seem to be sensitive to poor/bad grounds. To review, the bike won't start, and you have a trouble code for TPS shorted to ground. THis would seem to be confirmed by your ECMSpy reading of 0.05V at 24% throttle opening. So, if you haven't already done so, remove the airbox base, and unplug the TPS. With a multimeter in hand, turn the bike on and confirm 5V on the rd/w wire to the TPS. While there, confirm the bk/w wire goes to ground. If those don't check out, remove the grey connector from the ECM and confirm the wires are intact between the TPS and the ECM. If they aren't, the problem is in the harness somewhere between those two points. And the 5V reference signal may be 'bleeding' over into the inlet temp and eng temp wires, leading to the values on the ECMSpy screen. If they are intact, then back to the ground issues.   Akbuell Posted on Wednesday, October 12, 2011 - 04:48 pm:        As a point of interest, I took the grey connector loose on my '08 XB (same family, different child) and connected the bk/w pins on the ECM to the battery negative terminal, with an ohm meter. I got a reading of essentially 0 ohms. I suggest you start there. If you get a similar reading, then go to the airbox base, ect.   Flexx Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2011 - 08:50 am:        Thank you Sparky, you gave a good advice, I'll clean them all, I just have to find them (I noticed just a couple, under the seat). Thank you Akbuell as well, I have a multimeter\ohm reader, I just have to understand how it works   Akbuell Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2011 - 10:39 am:        I was going to make a smart-alec remark about never having been to Rome, and if you will split the $850 USD airfare with me, I'll show you how to use the multimeter, but I won't. Big LOL. Being serious, I too had to learn to use a multimeter, so don't feel bad. If you have a garage, or motorcycle shop you frequent, of if you know a mechanic, buy someone there lunch, or a favorite beverage of choice, and have them show you how it is to be used. You might check technical schools, or auto shop schools, ect, in the area for help. Should take all of 5 mins, 10 at most. And you are very welcome. Glad to try and help; hope the suggestions are useful. Pls keep us informed, Dave   Mesozoic Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2011 - 04:59 pm:        Sounds like it's a grounding problem to me. The sensor ground is divorced from the power ground, but I don't think this is a good idea. I completely redid the grounds on my bike and it solved a ton of problems it had from the day I bought it new.   Flexx Posted on Friday, October 14, 2011 - 05:15 am:        Dear all, yesterday I checked the 2 grounds under the seat. They work fine. Where are the others? I changed all the fuses, they work fine. I opened all the connectors under the seat and next to the carters, and i sprayed the connector liquid inside them (as you cannot clean them). Tomorrow I'll clean the front ones. Something weird happened: now the fan goes only when I switch the bike off. The error code 11 is still there, the bike still doesn't start, but the fan doesn't start when I turn the key on. Only when I turn it off.   Flexx Posted on Friday, October 14, 2011 - 05:23 am:        Akbuell, I cannot share the ticket with you (my bike is costing me too much ) but I live 500 meters away from the Colosseum so if you'll come to Rome, I'll be pleased to get you the best pasta and gelato available in town   Two_seasons Posted on Friday, October 14, 2011 - 11:36 am:        Flexx: Another way to "clean" connectors is to pull them apart then reconnect them several times. This is called exercising the connector. What this does is "clean" the connector surfaces some. I have found that the spray electrical contact cleaner works better after you "exercise" the connectors several times, then use the spray electrical contact cleaner and reconnect. I do not have your model bike, but this information is universal in the electronics world. Best wishes. I am eager to hear of your success in fixing your bike.