| Author |
Message |
    
X3rs
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - 07:27 pm: | 
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I have a 2000 X-1 and am always running into issues with the ECM system. Note - I do have the race sys one on at this time.
Exp - it doesn't adjust fast enough when changing altitudes. I can not change cams and get it tuned without an add on like a Power Commender, but Power Commender does not support the unit made for my bike anymore. Plus, the one I have always made the red warning light come on so I pulled it. I believe having that light is good and if the unit always causes it to false signal, then I nver know when a problem really happens.
I thought I saw a ade for an aftermarket ECM. Can't remember what bikes it listed. |
Two_seasons
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - 10:34 pm: |
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Nice profile picture. USS Hornet. Very cool.
Regarding your altitude change and the ECM not keeping up, are you talking it's running too rich of a mixture when you climb? |
X3rs
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2011 - 11:02 am: |
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I don't know if I can say to rich or lean. What is noticeable is that it bogs down and as if running on one cylinder. And it may be but I have not verified that yet so I will just stick with - it bogs down. runs without power. Creeps along at 30mph.
The altitude thing can be lived with but is a pain when going up Mt. Evens (just to the lower gate & lake) or other places but I don't have names for them. A bigger concern to me is not being able to change mufflers, cams, things like that without running into ECM issues. I swear I saw an ad for an adjustable after marker ECM that came out. Not saying it will work for twins, but I would like to know.
(Message edited by x3rs on October 26, 2011) |
Harleyelf
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2011 - 11:38 am: |
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Are you certain the issue is not in the wiring? If it acts like it is running on one cylinder, it may be. The coil wires have a history of fracturing about six inches from the coil due to pinch points between the frame and gas tank. An intermittent connection to the coil could give you that trouble light and the weak spark. If the problem is really in your ECM, just buy a new race ECM from Erik Buell Racing. No more of that pesky EPA required over-leanness. If you have a mystery no-spark issue, look to the cam position sensor. |
X3rs
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2011 - 12:37 pm: |
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Harleyelf -
I see you posted that a 'race' ECM from Eric may help. My question - I have a race ECM bought years ago(see original post). Is there a new better 'race' ECM available now days Eric is selling for my bike?
I should also mention that everything runs fine later at lower altitude = 6k. But checking the wires is a good tip.
(Message edited by x3rs on October 26, 2011) |
Harleyelf
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2011 - 01:35 pm: |
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Oh, yeah. Night and day difference. I have not personally used a Erik Buell Racing module as I converted to old-school carburetor a few years back, but the new ECM is really a racetrack designed part and the kit from the Harley dealer contained a poor compromise between track and street. There are some old threads about it in the Old School board. How's your barometric sensor? Might just be the connection to it, work it on and off a few times to ensure a good connection. |
Two_seasons
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2011 - 01:41 pm: |
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X3, here are a couple of tests to do...
1.) Test coil resistance
Primary resistance should be 0.5-0.7 ohms
Secondary resistance should be 5.5-7.5Kohms
Another thing to do to check DTC's or better known as Diagnostic Trouble Codes.
2.) Find your bike's diagnostic plug to check your DTC's. It's usually located up around the steering head area, exiting to the right (intake) side of the bike. 4-pin connector with a gray rubber cap on it. Once you find it, rotate the connector (male pins inside) so that the connector lock is facing up at the 12 o'clock position. Now jumper the right side upper and lower pins with a jumper wire.
With the ignition switch to ON, the kill switch to RUN, and NOT RUNNING, write down the number of flashes that your tachometer check engine light (DTC light) gives you. It will start with about seven flashes followed by the FIRST DIGIT, then pause, followed by the SECOND DIGIT of the DTC code. There may be multiple DTC's stored in your ECM right now, so make sure you get all of them.
Do these two and report back. |
X3rs
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2011 - 06:14 pm: |
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Harleyelf -
The Erik Buell Racing site does not have any ECM's for a 2000 bike????? Are you saying one of the later ones will work on a 2000? Which one? I will inquire further from them. |
Harleyelf
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2011 - 11:55 pm: |
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Check with them. I use a module from an M2. Being an electrical tech, I follow the threads in the old school section regarding mystery electrical problems. I have seen several such threads lead to someone saying, "Wow, this new ECM is so much better than the one that failed!" I'm still concerned that your issue is altitude related. A simple wire kink could keep the ECM from knowing that you are at altitude. |
X3rs
| | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 11:23 am: |
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two seasons -
I will do the coil and code test. that code check is good to know...period. it would be nice to have a table of codes explanations at home. |
Two_seasons
| | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 01:40 pm: |
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OK, here is that list..
Code 11---Throttle Position sensor
Code 13---Oxygen sensor
Code 14---Engine Temperature sensor
Code 15---Intake Air Temperature sensor
Code 16---Battery Voltage
Code 23---Front Fuel Injector
Code 24---Front Ignition Coil
Code 25---Rear Ignition Coil
Code 32---Rear Fuel Injector
Code 33---Fuel Pump
Code 35---Tachometer
Code 44---Bank Angle sensor
Code 52, 53, 54, 55---ECM failure
Code 56---Cam Sync failure
These codes are taken from page 4-15 of the 1999-2000 Buell X1 Lightning Service Manual.
Remember to follow the above procedure. Report back please. |
X3rs
| | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 06:53 pm: |
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I sent Erik Buell Racing an e mail to see if any of his new ECM's will work on my bike.
Still would like to have a completely programmable one. Then I could change anything on the engine and still be able to program it. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 07:02 pm: |
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Purchase the ECMspy cable from American Sport Bike, and download a copy of ECMspy, it is free and will do what you want, including running diagnostics on the bikes systems.
Your issue is either do to a failing O2 sensor, or the bike isn't being ridden in closed loop mode for a sufficient period of time to make the adjustments to the AFV as necessary. |
Two_seasons
| | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 08:38 pm: |
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What Froggy is saying is that if you are running your bike consistently at 3600rpm and higher, which is open loop, the engine then sees more fuel via the ECM.
In closed loop, it's anything above 1500 rpm to 3600rpm, which then relies on your O2 sensor feedback to adjust the fuel flow via the ECM. |
X3rs
| | Posted on Monday, October 31, 2011 - 11:35 am: |
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"Your issue is either do to a failing O2 sensor, or the bike isn't being ridden in closed loop mode for a sufficient period of time to make the adjustments to the AFV as necessary."
I believe the 2nd is the case. But I will check with the 'shorting' procedure given earlier.
What I don't like is that this ECM doesn't seem to adjust fast enough & is not fully adjustable. Around here altitude is gained & lost fast. In fact I have also had the issue in CA on hwy 4. That is why I would like to find a better running system. Additionally, the ability to 'fully' adjust a EMC would mean any change could be done to the engine from bigger injectors to cams or whatever. Anything could be changed & adjusted for. Heck I got injection for all the good points attributed to it, but then (on this bike)the system used falls short in stated areas. Every time I inquire about issues relating back to ECM tuning I always get an hour lecture on the short falls of the system used for my year bike. The last shop I inquired at advised I just could not get into engine changes w/o running into ECM short falls. Now they may have not heard about the EMCspy thing. But they flat out told me they could not tune the bike with a cam & pipe change using the stock RACE ECM. That Power Commander (PC) no longer supported a unit for the bike & that was that.
Are you guys saying that this ECMspy will allow full adjustment of the closed loop? I know the PC I used before worked on the open loop. But like I said earlier, it kept giving false(red) codes so I pulled it.
Then I will have to explain all of this to a local shop that can grasp it all. That idiot in Denver I went to did not even want to take the time to read my inquiries (fully written out)which included a comment that if they had concerns about anything, to let me know. He just took it in and let it sit there for 2 months.
(Message edited by x3rs on October 31, 2011) |
Two_seasons
| | Posted on Monday, October 31, 2011 - 12:41 pm: |
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X3:
I understand your frustration. 1999 was the first year that Buell got into fuel injection. This was also the year HD took 99% control of Buell. HD did not have many (any?) bikes at that time with DDFI.
The early ECM maps were ok, but along with EPA regs, were starving the engines and, consequently, running the engines lean in the closed loop mode. That is why the "race" ECM came about.
Regarding your frustration of why someone cannot help you tune your bike. There are shops in CO that do know these bikes, High Country Harley/Davidson is a good example. They are located in Frederick, CO, just north of Denver on I25. They used to be a good reliable source of experience and parts for our Buells. Another source for you to contact is Frank Skinner, a BadWebber located south of you a bit. He goes by FSkinner on this board. Search his board name and contact him via PM. Another source is American Sport Bike. Their telephone # is listed, talk to Al. Wonderful BadWeb sponsor and very knowledgeable about the Buell platform.
I'm sorry that this journey has been so frustrating for you. Contact the above to see where they may help you.
Regards...Steve |
Harleyelf
| | Posted on Monday, October 31, 2011 - 12:48 pm: |
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ECMspy will let you re-map the injectors one datum at a time. It will also let you flash your race map onto your stock ECM. It won't fix intermittent wire failures in your O2 sensor wire or your coil wires. If your bike acts like it's running on one cylinder, it probably is. Cam position sensor, coil, coil wires, connector loose on ECM.... your issue sounds electrical rather than electronic to me. |
X3rs
| | Posted on Monday, October 31, 2011 - 05:07 pm: |
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OK. I have some contacts to make and some tests to do.
I will pick this up a bit later after the other changes being made (adding fan and XB valve covers) at this time and perhaps keep my VH muffler & cams until I get more info on if I will ever be able to use them or not.
Time for me to find an exhaust guy that can cut & re-weld my VH muffler to get it to fit up right.
Thanks for the help on the ECM. I am now going to look for the muffler board,site,posts,whatever. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Monday, October 31, 2011 - 05:34 pm: |
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The Race ECM is the exact same as the stock ECM, just with different maps and other programming on it. The Race ECM can't do anything the stock one can't.
You can do all those adjustments you are talking about with the stock ECM. |
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