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Tempest766
| | Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2011 - 12:14 am: | 
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I bought my Uly with a hawk muffler on it and didn't like the muffler so I attempted to switch it back to the stock one myself. In the process I broke an oil fitting and had to take it to the shop so that they could fix the thing and change the muffler for me.
$600 and a new oil pump housing later I got the bike back but now it runs like crap. They installed the stock muffler, swapped the oil pump housing, changed the oil, and reflashed the ECM.
These are the current performance deficiencies:
1) literally 30% less power now. Runs smoother than it did before but feels more like a 750cc than a 1200cc. the thing used to be torque-ee as hell and now it either stalls on the take off or very gradually accelerates.
2) The new fan profile runs it when it shouldn't and turns it off when it is needed. Not happy about the fan running on high when I'm cruising at 3200rpm at 60mph in 60degree weather...not necessary
3) taking off from a stop it now either takes it's good ole time to come up to speed, or stalls if I hit the throttle quickly.
4) I was getting 46mpg. The fill-up after the trip to the shop got 33mpg.
Are these deficiencies due to the reflash with the latest HD firmware or is something else going on? |
Two_seasons
| | Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2011 - 06:59 am: |
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Sounds like they may have done a TPS reset.
You'll have to have approximately 50 cycles of the ignition before you return to normal, if that is what they did.
Right now, your bike is trying to find it's way again. It should smooth out soon.
Get a service manual and do the stuff yourself. |
Tempest766
| | Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2011 - 04:30 pm: |
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The bike is a 2008 XB12XT with about 3400 miles on it now.
I would love to do the work myself. I have the service manual, but I don't have a garage, just garage space I rent to park the thing. I'm an embedded systems Computer Engineer so I'd also love to have detailed specs and programming information for the ECM, even an Erik Buell Racing ECM, but not at the price being asked. :^(
I did my own TPS reset after I got the bike back but realistically, how many miles and what kind of riding should it really take before the bike acts normally again? I rode another 70 miles today and got 36mpg as a mix of rural and highway driving.
I need my power, responsiveness, and fuel efficiency back! |
Akbuell
| | Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2011 - 07:21 pm: |
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After reading your post, if I were you, I would:
Take a copy if the work order, and make an appointment to speak to the manager of the shop that did the service. Explain how the bike performed prior to the service, and how it performs now. Express your unhappiness; all in a polite, business-like, civil manner. And ask for a re-flash, or re-install of your original map.
I'm guessing that you did not get an '08 map installed, or the install got 'corrupted' in some manner. I'm not going to ask why the ECM was re-flashed for a muffler install and a broken oil fitting .....
And check the B.R.A.N. for badwebbers in your area. |
Tempest766
| | Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2011 - 09:57 pm: |
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The shop said the flash is the "latest" from HD for the Ulysses and is the one that they switched to for the 2010 model...at least as far as the fan profile is concerned. They upgraded the flash because the old muffler was a third party one and there was no telling what the previous parameters were...I guess trying to bring it back to Buell spec, which I support, except that the 2010 ECM program kind of sux.
I am going to continue to ride for a couple of day to see if the ride becomes better (per the advise that the ECM is still learning)...but the service shop is open Tuesday through Saturday so I'll be calling them back if I dont get better performance "soon". |
Froggy
| | Posted on Monday, September 12, 2011 - 02:54 pm: |
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It sounds like the ECM had custom programming on it, and the reflash overrode that programming putting it back into the terrible EPA friendly spec.
quote:Sounds like they may have done a TPS reset.
You'll have to have approximately 50 cycles of the ignition before you return to normal, if that is what they did.
Umm what? The 50 cycles thing is to clear any historic error codes. |
Two_seasons
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - 06:53 am: |
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Froggy is right on the 50 cycles to clear the codes.
Sorry for the mis-information on that.
Regarding the TPS reset, I stand by that assessment. I think most HD dealers do that as "normal service" when dealing with the ECM. |
Akbuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - 01:01 pm: |
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Good call on the custom ECM program; hadn't thought of that! Perhaps the previous owner, if available, can offer some insight.
That being said, you have changed back to a stock set-up, so a custom program may be a moot point. You should not have such a drastic loss of power, not to mention a 30ish+ percent loss of fuel economy. My '08TT gets 45mpg and up, depending on the ride. I still believe that the re-flash was 'corrupted' or incomplete.
As to the ECM 'learning', a steady cruise at 60ish MPH for 20-30mins allows the closed loop portion to set the AFV, and that's about it.
Is it possible that you have fouled plugs?
Hope this helps, and please let us know how it goes. Dave |
Tempest766
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - 02:37 pm: |
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The previous owner said no custom program was used, but since he purchased it with the hawk muffler on it, he wouldn't know.
After riding the thing for about 400miles since getting it back I think any ECM tuning should have settled in by now.
The last three tanks of gas (most of which was rural highway riding at 50-70mpg around 3200rpm) yielded 32mpg, 42mpg then 39mpg.
The thing still has nowhere near the power it did before servicing, and it stalls upon cold startup, or immediately after refueling (warm). Once running a bit it runs OK, but I certainly could no longer pop a wheelie if I was inclined to do so (I don't do that!)
The tail pipe had a good bit of soot in it and I checked my oil level (was midway in the normal range upon return from the dealer and now show barely on the dipstick). Makes me worried the thing is burning oil now since they screwed with the oil pump.
I can take it back to the dealer but then I'll be without for another one to two weeks. Last time it sat at the dealer for a week before they even looked at it.
I'm regretting buying a Buell at this point. The lack of available service facilities and lack of "public" information about the technology and specifications is really beginning to rub me the wrong way. |
Harleyelf
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - 06:06 pm: |
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Your regret would be better focused on the dealership who messed with your ECM program without authorization. Akbuell has the right idea; make an appointment to speak calmly with your dealer's service manager. Tell him you're not leaving the bike with him but want it fixed at no additional charge while you wait. Your fuel economy shows that the re-flash of the ECM is incomplete or wrong. |
Akbuell
| | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2011 - 10:05 am: |
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Rob, do me a favor, Please! Step away from the computer. Take some deep breaths. Play with the dog. Borrow the neighbors dog if you don't have one. Consume one favorite beverage of your choice. Take the time to reflect on the enjoyment your Buell gave before the service work. This can be fixed.
As to the soot in the tailpipe, look at it with a good flashlight. Soft and fluffy, like black velvet, is just carbon. Understandable give your fuel mileage. Swipe it w/your finger. If you are in fact burning oil (Which I doubt)it will be oily, not just carbon. And I'm sure your spark plugs are not happy.
Re the oil, you may have used an ounce or two in 4oomi. A lot of us here, including myself, now ride until the oil is warm, and check the level while the bike is at idle. Gives an accurate reading.
Finally, just to cover all bases, pull your airbox cover, and make sure the air opening is clear, and there are no shop towels, ect, hidden in there. Stranger things have happened.
And when you go back to the dealership, see if you can't take someone from there with you on a ride.Let them see exactly what it is running like.
Have faith. It ran well before, and will again. Dave |
Froggy
| | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2011 - 10:38 am: |
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I agree 100%.
I know you probably don't want to hear it, but you can buy a Race ECM from Erik Buell Racing, it cure any ECM related issues you are having, and give you a smoother map that doesn't conform to EPA restrictions. |
Tempest766
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 02:17 pm: |
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I understand how I might sound stressed about this whole fiasco...and I'm sure the fact that I did have to put my best friend and companion german shepherd to sleep a couple of weeks ago has a lot to do with it, but the lack of available and competitive service shops for Buell motorcycles is a huge negative. Don't get me wrong. The HD folks who I've dealt with locally are nice enough folks but the lack of competition means spending way too much to keep these bikes running.
Anyway, they are aware of my issues and I'm suppose to take the thing back up for diagnosis when I can leave it there and find a ride back home.
There also seems to be a lot of pushing the Erik Buell Racing ECM on these forums: almost to the extent of a covert marketing campaign. I'd certainly get one if they were reasonably priced and based on "open programming standards". I can say things like that, being a computer engineer.
Anyway, the bike is ridable but the performance sucks and I need to get it back up there to be diagnosed. |
Two_seasons
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 11:08 am: |
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First off, sorry for your loss. Dogs seem to know us better than most of those around us.
I do take issue with your assertion that we are trying to push or market anything on this board. I've got good reason, however, to say what works as I own three Buells. Two, basically, like yours. One with performance mods, one totally stock.
Performance sucks on our stock harley engine/trans bikes due to EPA regulations.
Race ECM changes that.
Mediocre performance is basically all the stock ECM, with a stock tune, will give you. Most here on this site prefer an ECM that matches the potential of the machine. Surely as an engineer you understand this point.
Most on this site are savvy professionals who enjoy wrenching on their own bikes. Based on your postings, it sounds like this is what is really stuck in your craw, the investment you made that hasn't given you want you want, power and lower decibels.
Bottom line. Nobody will ever care more for your bike than you do. And an EPA tuned ECM will never give you what you desire, better performance. |
Tempest766
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 06:07 pm: |
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last trip to the shop and they replaced the ECM...said it was having the seat-stress problem. They also sealed up the oil filler cap and told me to ride it 500 miles and bring it back to have the level checked. I've put about 450 miles on it and no low-oil warning so maybe the new ECM solved the oil loss problem too. Anyway, the thing is now pretty smooth and is certainly ridable, but has nowhere near the fuel economy it should (only getting a consistent 38mpg) and the power isn't indicative of a large v-twin...seams kind of wimpy now and no way I could wheelie it if I wanted to...not that I have any desire to do that |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2011 - 09:40 am: |
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AKBuell gave good advice. Sounds like they installed the wrong map, or it got goofed up some how. Do over and ensure they do a proper TPS reset, or just do it yourself, very simple. I'd not assume they did it.
Not sure a 2010 ECM mapping is compatible with prior years. The 2010 XBikes were the first to get dual O2 sensors. Get the proper flash for your 2008 and you'll be pleased. |
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