| Author | Message | ||
     H_Man |
HELP! HELP!! Yesterday and today were great days to be on the bike, but it won't start. I rode for a bit on Sunday (4/8) and had no problems. The bike first gave me starting trouble Tuesday (4/10). It hasn't worked since then. I'll do an archive search but I'll post this plea for help here and in the Electronic & Ignition and Carb/FI sections to try get some quicker direction. Symptoms: The starter engages but the engine won't kick over. I have a '00 M2. Actions: (1) I checked for, and have, spark; (2) All the fuses are okay; (3) Took off the air filter and visually examined the Carb. It seems to be getting gas; (4) There's gas in the tank; (5) fuel supply valve IS NOT on "off"; (6) I changed the plugs. Since I changed the plugs and have spark, I'm tempted to believe it isn't an electrical problem. But I cant figure this out. Any and all assistance is welcomed. H-man | ||
| Airborne |
To all Buellers' Something to look for!!! Today while washing the bike I noticed a wire leading from the starter laying really close to the belt drive pulley. When I looked closer I noticed that the wire had been rubbing and almost cut in two. I believe this might be the reason the starter wouldn't engage on some occasions. Anyway, I did a quick "band aid" fix, cable tied the wires away from the belt drive and kept on rolling. Tomorrow I'm going over the whole bike and looking for any other electrical wires that need to be secured better. | ||
| H_Man |
I'll check out your pointer tomorrow. Thanks Airborne. Drive on! H-man | ||
| H_Man |
Hey Airborne, I checked that wire you noted. It is awfully close to the belt, but it's fine and stable. At Arvel's suggestion, I pulled the plugs to verify gas was getting to the cylinders. The plugs were indeed wet. I couldn't see into the plug hole too well to see if the cylinder was flooded. So I lit a match and nuzzled up reeeal close to the cylinder when....Just kidding. I left the plugs out to allow the cylinder to air out. When I returned and replaced the plugs, still no start up. I also tried cranking her up while the plugs were out. I could feel the air being forced out the holes from the pistons, so I don't think its a compression problem (remember, I just rode the bike last Sunday). Does anyone think it might be the ignition module preventing the bike from starting?? For all else who may help, see a couple posts above for the H&P of this problem. H-man | ||
| Bomber |
All . . .. I've finally finished the Tach/Oil Temp project on my Y2K M2 . . . . . but (you KNEW there would be a but . . . ) My odometer now resets to 0.00 when turn off the ignition. I've checked the wires to the speedo (three times), and I think they are correctly connected (theyu match both the notes I took during disassembly, and the markings on the back of the speedo, AND the wiring diagram in the manual). Since the tach was for a '97, and the connectors didn't match up to the '00 wirting harness, i spliced into the speedo power and ground circuits to power the tach . . . . although I don't understand how THAT might affect the odo . . . thanks for your help rosberg | ||
| Reepicheep |
Well, I kludged up my new (#3) speedo sensor this weekend... and so far so good. Almost 3 miles without a blown sensor. For some of us, that's a victory  I originally was investigating a second order electronic filter (a coil and a capacitor), but when cobbling together my test circuit, saw a lot of ringing when the power was switched off that made me nervous. I don't want to solve my speedo sensor problems by blowing my speedo  So I went with the first order filter, and choose to use just the coil instead of just the capacitor. Either could have worked, but by going with the coil I did not have to determine maximum current that the sensor powering circuit can deliver and calculate an appropriate load resistor... Without the load resistor, there is a (highly unlikely) chance that whatever powers the sensor could blow trying to initially charge up the cap. Besides, I suspect the coil is less heat and vibration sensitive then the cap would be. I purposely designed my solution around parts you can get at Radio Shack, so that anybody can do it. So, my current kludge consists of a coil, followed by a diode, inserted in series with the red wire. This gives me some noise suppression (the coil) and protects me from reversed voltages (the diode). About $5 worth of parts, three solder joints, some electrical tape, and a few cable ties. We will see how long this lasts. I will post pictures and part numbers later this week, and only time will tell if this solves the rapidly blowing sensor problem. I was only able to get up to 50 or so MPH, and it keeps working up to that speed. I will have to tail somebody in a car and make sure accuracy has not suffered at high speed, but I doubt it has (my square-ish wave is now a sin-ish wave but still plenty to trigger). Bill | ||
| Sparky |
H-man, If your plugs are wet (with gas) & you have spark, it sounds like the engine is flooded (too rich). You can usually clear this by cranking the engine with the choke off, throttle wide open & ignition switch on. Be careful not to pump the throttle more than once while doing this though. There's always the possibility that the carb's flooding, like with a stuck float. Usually gas'll spill out of the air cleaner or you can smell gas. If so, turn the petcock off and try the above procedure until the engine fires. I've had this happen a couple of times with both my bikes at one time or another & they've never failed to fire up. Then it's fun riding the bike turning the petcock on & off until the debris dislodges from the check valve at the float. Note: If you have an electronic speedo (even if you don't), be sure to ground the spark plugs against the engine while checking for spark to avoid the possibility of OFU (Owner Fouled Up) - stray high voltage shooting through the wiring harness. Hope this helps, Sparky 96S1, 98S3 | ||
| Captlusk |
H-man, I had an overrich problem with my S-3. As it turns out the enricher cable was kinked and would not allow the enricher to be shut completely off. You might want to check that. | ||
| Vincy666 |
I was told that to clear the error codes for the engine light on a '00 X1 was to switch the key to the on position until the red light goes off, then turn the key off. Repeat this 50 times. That was from one dealership, another stated I only have to do that 15 times. CAn anyone tell me which one it is? I believe what caused my light to start going off in the first place is the incorrect installation of the air filter back in its housing. Appearantly the shop that had done some work on the bike for me had re-installed the filter in backwards! The bike still ran though, which doesn't give me the greatest confidence in the overall design of that stock airbox. Airborne, do you have pics of your bike with that snorkel mod you did? Is it that stock snorkel inside that stock airbox? If so, what did you do to plug up the holes in the snorkel? regards, vince | ||
| Blake |
H-man: Didn't you say
I take that to mean that the starter will not turn the engine over (with the plugs in anyway); instead you just hear a click noise? If so, it would seem that you have poor continuity in the starter circuit (check/clean/tighten all connections), or your battery is low/bad (charge or replace), or your starter is weakened and needs work. | ||
| S2no1 |
H_man: I don't think I'll disclose any more of my youthful insanity. Heck, you'd never belive the Yamaha 500 front end on the Suzuki GT 750 Buffalo my Dad and I did. Let alone some of the other bikes. Naw, Chucks right don't let me near a bike.  Arvel | ||
| Airborne |
Bomber: While checking voltages across the speedo circuit to troubleshoot my problem down to the sensor I came up with this list and wrote it down in my manual. I can only assume the color coding is the same for different models but it might still be a reference for you. Looking at back of speedo from left to right 1 Silverblue / white = trip reset 4.2 VDC 2 White / green = speed input 3 Red / constant hot (even with key off) 12 VDC 4 Orange / white = Key on 12 VDC Key off 0 VDC 5 Black = ground The red is probably for memory power, there must also be an internal battery in the odometer because the mileage is maintained even when the bikes' battery is disconnected. Hope this helps | ||
| Airborne |
Oh, Bomber I just re-read your post a little closer. Sorry man I didn't realize you put a 97 tach into a 00 bike. Well any ways the constant hot wire is the key to maintaining the mileage reading. My notes are for a 99 X-1 maybe this could still help. | ||
| Airborne |
Vincy666: Yeah it's 50 times but I don't know if that means actual start ups or just cycling the key through the on/off positions. | ||
| Airborne |
Vincy666: The air box mod is with the stock snorkel. I used two caps from oil bottles to plug the holes. Don't forget to use a good glue. The filter is a K&N generic slip on. I should have gotten a longer filter though. I did this before I found out about a force winder and will be getting one in the near future. Click on my profile link and you can see the picture. (For some reason I have trouble posting pictures inside of posts) | ||
| Bomber |
Airborne!!! well, I get the DUH prisze for the day (if not the week) . . . .Jony2stones over on the ATC site gently suggested that a FUSE (of all things) might be the culprit! I had blown the "Instrument" fuse while doing the re-wiring, and replaced it, and looked no further . . . . there is, of course, a 15 amp (!) fuse dedicatred to the odo/clock circuit . . .. . sheesh . . . .. I used to WRITE manuals, fergoodnesssake . . . .no reason to expect that I should learn to read them at this late date, now, is there? this from the guy who rebuilt both carbs (old triumph, years ago), at night, in the rain, only to find out that the gas tank was empty! ah well . . . . . . the fuse thing is a mistake I won't make again . . .my goal is to make NEW mistakes! such a target rich environment for me! all thge way, brother | ||
| Airborne |
I guess we can share the Duh award. I should have thought about that myself. "Keep your knees in the breeze". | ||
| Vincy666 |
Airborne, good pic. You state you're going to replace your snorkel mod with a Force. Is that more for functional or cosmetic reasons? For those that may want to duplicate that snorkel mod, any insight you can share? Pros, cons? Maitainance? Problem areas? Worth the trouble? Should one just save his nickles for the Force? Best price I've seen for the Force for the X1 so far is $290 before tax. | ||
| H_Man |
Blake, I didn't describe that very well. The starter is fine. I just get the sound of the engine turning over but not fully firing on it's own. There's silence once I release the starter switch. I had planned on testing the coil for continuity, but I followed one of Mikej's suggestions from Saturday/Sunday first and the bike roared to life -- though briefly. Mikej suggested spraying some starter fluid in the carb. I did that with the fuel switch off first, then I tried it again with the fuel line open. The bike turned over and would run. But not on it's own. I had to continually twist the throttle to keep her running. A couple times it would rev high without me doing anything. I could have this wrong, but I thought the mix was too lean because I had to blip the throttle so much to keep it going. BUT, when I pulled the plugs, they were black. After all this here's were I am. (1) The bike still won't start and run on it's own; (2) I know the electrical system's okay; (3) I know the hang up with the fuel delivery system; (4) I'm not sure what the problem is; (5) I think I need to reduce the gas in the mix. Since the problem is not electrical, I'll stop posting here. Please keep all your comments and suggestions coming. While I'm pretty handy with tools, I'm a neophyte when it comes to all thing motorcycle related. A greatful H-man | ||
| Airborne |
Vincy666: The switch over to a Force is more cosmetic than performance. I'm not sure if the Force would provide more performance than my cheap mod or not but the Force looks like it could do better. The mod is worth the trouble. I'll post a comprehensive set of steps over in the Engine- Carb area and move the discussion over there as curtisy to others. | ||
| Sparky |
H-man, This is not too far fetched as this happened to one of our Buell riders once -- his idle screw fell out while on a run. It would rev but wouldn't idle and would die. Since your problem seemed to happen all at once, it's something to check! Sparky | ||
| Fastback69 |
Has anyone heard of the Yellow Box speedo recalibration unit? Here is the website: Yellow box I wonder how this would affect the sensor? | ||
| Toddt |
Ok Guys...need some help with this one... Riding home last night on my 98 S1W, the horn and turn signals quit working. Got time today finally to try to chase it out, and here's what I've found: 1) Key in accessory position (one notch before run)horn doesn't work, turn signals do. 2) Bike running in neutral, clutch lever out, side stand down - no signals, no horn 3) Bike running in neutral, clutch lever out, side stand up - signals and horn function fine 4) Bike running in neutral, clutch lever in, side stand down - signals and horn function fine 5) Bike running in gear, no signals, no horn - regardless of the position of the side stand or clutch lever. Any suggestions on what I've got going on? Email me, or reply to the board Thanks, Todd | ||
| Airborne |
Toddt: Boy that sounds really confusing. Definitely not easy to diagnose over the internet. There is a test in the service manual for checking shorts and opens in the wiring. "The shake test" The basic procedure is to shake the wiring harness while watching for the different problems to come and go. Then you have to trace each circuit with a multi-meter to check for the bad wire. It would probably be better to have the dealer do it. If you aren't familiar with the simpler basics of measuring volts, ohms, on wires. Or try one of your trusted buddies that knows electronics and bribe him with beer. Good luck man. | ||
| Chuck |
Todd, Here's my wild-assed guess: Your problem is with a ground circuit. The black ground wires from your horn and turn signals are (somewhere) spliced together before ultimately being tied to a chassis ground. Physically check these "paths", as sometimes an ohm meter can show continuity even though the connections are not adequate enough to supply the required electrical "load". The reason ground circuits are sometimes confusing is that systems that share a ground can use each other's positive circuits as a substitute ground as long as only one system needs to function at a time . . . eg . tail lights work - and brake lights work - but when tail lights are "on" and brake lights are "on" simultaneously, neither work. Your problem is likely very simple to fix, but maybe harder to find. | ||
| Toddt |
Thanks for the responses guys. I've already tried the "shake test", and got nowhere. Guess I'll start chasing the grounds and see where that goes. In case a little bit more info is helpful, think about this - the problem seemed to start as an intermittent one prior to becoming a permanent one. Also, when the key is in the run position, bike in gear, not running, pressing the horn switch causes the neutral light and oil pressure light to illuminate. I'm TOTALLY confused here now! Todd | ||
| Chuck |
then DEFINITELY a ground problem | ||
| Rocketman |
ABSOLUTELY right ! Rocket in England | ||
| Toddt |
Thanks guys - problem turned out to be a loose ground post on the battery. I'll be picking a new one up on Monday! Todd | ||
| Ocbueller |
I love happy endings. OCbueller |
