| Author |
Message |
    
Gearheadstik
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2011 - 10:49 pm: | 
|
What would you guys bet on beibg wrong with this thing? I dont know what to work towards trouble shooting next.... I have read many threads with nearly the same problems but either the owners don’t post what finally fixed the problems or is different than mine... I traded my brother for bike with 8500 miles...Misses under load almost like running on one cyl or rev limits are hitting around higher loads at all times, nothing to do with time ridding .. I can back off throttle slowly and decrease load and bike will go to higher rpms if at just the right throttle. I have read about injector, cam position, and ecu problems.. I just need to know what all else to check or think about replacing…. Just trying to put my money in the best place possible. Thank you in advance for any help with this issue.
This is what I do know or have done so far.... idles fine and never dies, seems to fire up better with a little throttle, no problem codes, no intake or exhaust leaks, Cleaned grounds to battery and frame, checked resistance on wires and coil, reset TPS, removed fuel filter, great fuel pressure, new plugs, new o2 sensor, ecmspy installed different maps, all sensor show good working values in ecmspy (IATl, TPS, o2, etc.
Mods, Forcewinder and supertrapp muffler, Stock ECU with race maps... ECMSPY
(Message edited by gearheadstik on March 10, 2011) |
Kalali
| | Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2011 - 12:34 pm: |
|
What was the very last thing you did before the bike started acting up?
Sounds like something wrong with the maps or improper TPS reset. |
Gearheadstik
| | Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2011 - 01:12 pm: |
|
It was this way when I got the bike from brother a few weeks ago, he is not mechanically inclined enough to figure any probs out, he has probably been riding this way for a while and just kept it at low rpm and load.... I have reset the tps and used some different maps... stock vs race... It's kicking my butt... I'm planning on trying to do some data logging tomorrow to look for a prob. I have been leaning towards cps, ignition switch, ecu or coil... But cant understand it never dying or running bad at lower loads. Orig plugs also looked fine... |
Kalali
| | Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2011 - 02:52 pm: |
|
Could be the plug wires. Resistance measurements are not always reliable. If it were me I would just put a pair of new wires to completely rule that out... they're cheap... |
Gearheadstik
| | Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2011 - 03:25 pm: |
|
Will do and post results... Sure would feel stupid if that is the fix...Thanks |
Gearheadstik
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2011 - 01:10 pm: |
|
I swapped wires with my dads road king until I could get some shorter buell wires in and it made no difference... I just bit the bullet and ordered a new coil and ecm... I may have to set it on fire if I don’t figure out something soon. I did some data logging and saw nothing out of the ordinary on that. Seems like it is getting worse with the wire swap, as if it starts at a even lower throttle position. I would say now anything above 1/4 throttle in a load it starts missing.... |
Kalali
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2011 - 12:15 pm: |
|
Sorry to hear. I guess that would have been too good to be true. Based on what I've read here before, a defective ECU is usually the least likely scenario but has happened before. When you changed the maps, did you just load the Race maps or loaded the EEPROM file? If you loaded the EEPROM, then you might have incompatible firmware versions and the "upgrade" messed up your ECM. If it were me, I would load the original EEPROM back onto the ECU and then just load the Race maps, reset TPS and see what happens. |
Gearheadstik
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - 12:32 am: |
|
That is what I have done... Mine would not allow me to load the whole race EEPROM. It would give a not compatible message, I guess some can load it? So I did as you said and loaded just the timing and fuel maps into stock EEROM. I will figure it out before its over with and have a bunch of extra parts that are getting harder to get a hold of, so I guess its not a total waste. |
Kalali
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - 10:35 am: |
|
This may sound obvious but some folks have had strange and seemingly unrelated issues when the battery was weak. These FI bikes are very voltage sensitive and the sensors start acting crazy when they don't get the juice they need. Worth checking. |
Gearheadstik
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - 11:59 am: |
|
I have looked at that too... I just walked out and checked it and after sitting all night at rest it is reading 12.70 not running and have looked at the datalog and during rides it is around 13, so I don't think that's what is going on... I am open to any any all ideas until I prove otherwise. |
Akbuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - 02:39 pm: |
|
Other members have reported what I will lump under 'driveability' issues, and the cure has involved the CPS on occasion.
One recent problem was traced to a poor connection at the 14 plug, where the CPS plugs into the main harness.
The plug is located under the battery tray, so removing the battery makes access easier. Easy to pull it apart and check for corrosion, add some dielectric, check wire/plug/terminal end condition, and confirm it is tightly connected.
A shot in the dark; might help ...... |
Akbuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - 03:13 pm: |
|
One other thought, have you tried wiring around the ignition switch? |
Gearheadstik
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - 10:06 pm: |
|
I have read about the ignition switch having issues, but most say they just die or seem to die then fire back up... Mine is definitely something that has to do with load. It acts just like a rev limiter kicking in... But when you back off and very very slowly throttle up, it will go a few thousand higher. The CPS is sure to be the next thing to be bought if the coil and ecm do nothing. All that being said I will sure get out there and look into every connection on the bike. Thanks for all the ideas. |
Buell_bert
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - 04:02 am: |
|
One other is to clean/ tighten the connections to the coil. Please let us know what you find out. |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - 07:23 am: |
|
"Misses under load almost like running on one cyl or rev limits are hitting around higher loads at all times..."
From your description, it's difficult to discern what exactly the engine is doing. It might be helpful to know for sure what exactly is happening. Is one cylinder cutting out, or are both, or are both firing but just running very poorly? It's amazing how helpful a good dynamometer diagnosis can be. Replicating the problem then identifying the exact specific symptom (which cylinder, what is happening exactly) can be very helpful.
Can your brother tell you what if anything was changed on the bike or done to it in the way of setup or tuning just prior to onset of this problem?
What is the TPS voltage at idle?
Is the Forcewinder installed properly with IAT sensor? |
Gearheadstik
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - 07:43 am: |
|
Coil connections are good... I would love some dyno time if something does'nt give soon but they are expensive and hard to find around here. TPS is set between 5.5-6.5 on the ECMSPY... But that is not volts i guess? Would voltage matter if this value is correct? IAT is plugged in the Forcewinder filter itself, so I think that's correct. I may try going and driving around making it miss while holding a laser thermometer to pipes and try to see if one cylinder is going completely out, it sure sounds that way. |
Ocbueller
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - 08:18 pm: |
|
Could it be the the "Forcewinder Issue" discussed in the archives somewhere? Also sounds like a fuel starvation issue. You say you removed the filter. Did you replace it?
SteveH |
Gearheadstik
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - 09:44 pm: |
|
I will have to look up the "Forcewinder issue" you speak of.. Yes, I replaced the filter. |
Gearheadstik
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - 09:53 pm: |
|
Which issue are you referring to? Please give me a link if possible. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2011 - 01:12 am: |
|
Yes, voltage matters. Find the required range in your service manual and verify your TPS voltage is in that range. If not, then adjust so it is. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2011 - 01:13 am: |
|
Then do another TPS reset. |
Gearheadstik
| | Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2011 - 09:23 am: |
|
So, are your saying that the that the tps voltage can be off even though i'm using the ecmspy to set the TPS and it is showing correct values in ecmspy? What does ecmspy use to show these values? |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2011 - 10:02 am: |
|
I think the forcewinder issue referred to is the float bowl vent thing..that is not a problem on the FI bikes.
I once had a problem, not on a Buell, that behaved just like you described. Turned out to be a tank weldment about the size of a BB had moved into the fuel line ahead of the fuel filter. With light fuel flow, gas would move around it without issue. But with heavier load, the "BB" would suck against the fuel filter inlet and shut it off and it would die or run poorly. As soon as load was reduced, it would run great again. I don't think an FI bike could behave like this, because the pressure to the injectors is maintained at about 50PSI. But a clogged injector that inhibited higher flow rates sure could.
If you're able to isolate that it is one cylinder or the other that is missing, swap the injectors and see if it swaps cylinders.
I've had bad grounds do the strangest things. I had a car that a bad ground did something kinda similar. But you said you checked all those.
I seriously doubt it's a TPS reset issue. Doesn't sound like one. They usually exhibit themselves at low throttle settings more than high.
Al |
Kalali
| | Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2011 - 12:04 pm: |
|
"I seriously doubt it's a TPS reset issue."
I tend to agree. One other thing I suggest is to visually inspect your fuel and timing maps to make sure they look OK. I have run into cases before where the maps did not get loaded properly due to software glitches, etc. You can open two instances of the ECMspy at the same time, one showing the maps on the ECU and the other showing the saved maps, and glance over them to compare. |
Gearheadstik
| | Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2011 - 03:34 pm: |
|
Well I can scratch ECM off the list... Got it in and installed, set tps and made no difference. Still waiting on the coil.
I have looked at the maps several times and it's all there... Fuel and Spark. Going to try to dig deeper into the wiring this afternoon. |
Gearheadstik
| | Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2011 - 07:31 pm: |
|
Since it seems like the problem is somewhat worse now than when I began, I pulled the coil again to test and the secondary winding is measuring 12.5 ohms with clean connections and my book says it is suppose to be 5.5-7.5... I sure hope the new coil cures this heap... |
Ocbueller
| | Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2011 - 08:30 pm: |
|
Hang in there, it's worth the trouble. My X1 is my favorite Buell of three, when she is running right. You've got a very good resource here with some way knowledgeable people chiming in.
SteveH |
Gearheadstik
| | Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2011 - 11:49 pm: |
|
Removed the battery and inspected wiring under it, greased both three pin connectors.. Made no difference in the problem area.
Thanks for all the advise guys, I'm sure I will figure it out before it's over with. I do love the bike and always have, just always wanted to make it mine. My brother bought it new, I had bought a Fatboy at the time.. I had driven it several times over the years and enjoyed the difference between it and my other bikes. I had a GSX-R along with several other bikes and have always enjoyed the buell being different than all others... |
Harleyelf
| | Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 10:42 am: |
|
Sounds like your cam position sensor has an intermittent open circuit. With the coil good and the power supply to the coil good (you did clean your fuse contacts early on, didn't you) and the plugs and wires good, there are only a few places left where spark can go wrong. Check the wires from the CPS and the stator where they route around the drive sprocket; they often pinch. If all the wires are good, your issue must be in either the module or the cam sensor. Of the two, the sensor is cheaper and located in a position more likely to shake and run hot. One cylinder goes out? The same one every time? Checked the coil wires from the module for resistance or loose connections? |
Nallac
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2011 - 05:08 pm: |
|
a quick question, whats the AFV reading?. |
|
Troubleshooting (Poor Starting/Running/Handling/Ride Issues) »
Archive through July 18, 2011 »
Help!!! X1 acts like it hit rev limiter in load.. Misfire? »
Archive through March 19, 2011