| Author | Message | ||
     Tazmania720 |
OK, I have a 99 X1 with a stock motor, ecm, and V&H can. On my way to work today, dealing with the morons of the Oahu highway system, I was forced to rev up the engine to get someones attention. In doing so, I have now blown out the head gasket on the front cylinder. Some questions now come to mind. How long should these gaskets be good for? I only ask this because I had to have this cylinder removed and put back together to have some bolts extracted and was told that a top end gasket kit was used and I paid for. What parts will I now "need" to replace while I rebuild it? Can this be accomplished by the average wrench turner with a service manual? Any insight or knowledge in this would be great. Also, what else should I do if I have to have the motor out and apart? (Message edited by tazmania720 on November 19, 2010) | ||
| Kilroy |
Head gasket should not blow out by revving the engine. Some folks get well over 100k miles out of stock head gasket. I would take it back to whoever put it back together the first time and have them re-do it under warranty. PS it is easy to do yourself with service manual and moderate wrenching skills. Kilroy | ||
| Kalali |
What makes you think you've blown the head gasket? Besides, the engine has a rev limiter so not sure how you could over-rev the motor unless you downshifted to a low gear at too high a speed. | ||
| Tazmania720 |
I know the head gasket blew because a portion of it blew out and I had it in my pocket. There is also a nice 2 inch flame burst when I rev the engine. I agree that the thing should be good for a while. If for some strange reason my muffler is starting to fail, would that cause enough back pressure to do this? I would not think so. Also, do I have to have the head parts milled true again? I was talking to a car mechanic friend and he was saying that on many cars with aluminum heads, they must be milled down a bit. | ||
| Strato9r |
A head gasket failure is most likely caused by: -Improper cylinder head bolt/stud tightening. This could be insufficient torque used, improper sequence, or over tightening, causing the studs or bolts to stretch beyond their yield point, rendering them incapable of maintaining the load required to allow the head gasket to properly seal combustion pressure. -Abnormal combustion, usually referred to as detonation, which dramatically increases cylinder pressure to the point where the gasket is literally hammered out of position, releasing combustion pressure to the atmosphere, in the case of an air cooled V-twin. -Damaged, or improperly prepared mating surfaces on the face of the cylinder head, or the top of the cylinder. Deep scratches, previous surface erosion, warped mating surfaces, old gasket material not fully removed, dirt or other contaminants allowing cylinder pressure to escape to atmosphere, quickly eroding the gasket and/or mating surfaces. In some cases, if cylinder pressure escapes to the area surrounding a head bolt or stud, heat can cause the bolt material to soften and loose clamping pressure. -Bolt or nut, depending on fastener used, bottoming out before clamping force is achieved. This is a tricky one because if the fastener bottoms out, it can seem as though proper torque has been achieved, but in reality, all that has happened is the torque wrench indicates that the proper torque spec has been delivered. In the case of a Buell/Harley setup, this could be caused by something preventing the nut from extending over the stud far enough, or damaged threads in the nut, or on the stud. I've never seen a case where an engine being simply revved has caused a gasket failure, on any type of engine, and I've been at this for thirty three years. There had to be a reason that this happened. I would make sure the head studs are not stretched, and make sure before re- assembling everything that all mating surfaces are clean and undamaged. Good Luck! | ||
| Tazmania720 |
Thanks all for the insight. NOW, how about this. I went to the Buell dealer that touched my motor last. I paid for a top end gasket kit and they had to pull the motor and I am guessing disassemble the front cylinder to have some bolts extracted from it. I paid for 5.5 hours for all the motor work. Does this sound like they replaced the gaskets on both heads? I was not handed any new, unused parts when I picked my bike up but yet I paid for them. When I talked to who I think was the service manager he said that it was cheaper for me for them to charge me for a full kit and that it is my responsibility to ask for unused parts. He also said that for them to know if it was a failure due to them, they would have to rip apart the motor and then they would be able to tell. Does this sound right at all? Also, still need to know what sort of hardware I will need to pick up if I were to do this job myself, or at least have all the part available to bring with if I choose to drop the bike off at another shop. Thanks. | ||
| Strato9r |
Ed, I'm not sure whether the "top end gasket set" that you purchased was for both cylinders, or if it was sold as a set for one cylinder only, so I can't say for sure whether or not there were any left over parts that you paid for. If there were I do think that is funny that you weren't given those pieces automatically, but not all shops have the same policy that ours does, which returns ALL pieces to the customer, including unused pieces from any sort of kit purchased by the customer, and all used items removed from the customer's engine, with the exception of paper or fiber gaskets that would likely be destroyed upon disassembly. At this point, you'll have to decide whether or not you want to trust the shop that did the work to backtrack what they have already done, and what you will be on the hook for regarding further repairs. It is possible that something was missed, but if it was a dealership, then the repair protocol is based on the procedures in the factory shop manual, and from what I have seen, the general factory recommendation is to replace the parts most likely to fail or cause warranty issues. I would be calm and objective when speaking to the service manager about having the job re-done, and personally would be willing to pay for items that may be the cause of the gasket failure, (say, if it WERE the head studs), but as for the rest of it, I'd expect them to cover all other costs. If not, then smile, thank them for their time, and take your business elsewhere. If you are looking for expert advice on which pieces will be required to properly handle the repair on your own, then contact any of the BadWeb sponsors, explain your situation to them, and they will be happy to help you out. Hope things work out for you. | ||
| Tazmania720 |
Thanks all for your knowledge. Payday is now and I plan on placing a fairly hefty order to a lucky shop soon. I have the service manual, but am not sure if I am feeling adventurous enough to dance with this beast or not. If I do, I am sure I will be on here very often. Thanks again. | ||
| Tazmania720 |
I have the top end gasket kit now, and touched base with a local H-D shop that said they will do the work. They said it would be $500 for there work, which is about 6 hours of labor, as long as there is nothing wrong with the cylinder. Does this sound normal to others? $85 an hour is the going rate in HI. | ||
| Strato9r |
That's not too bad; their shop rate is less expensive than ours. Hope things work out this time! |
