| Author | Message | ||
     Darthane |
Christ, what kind of monster starters are they putting in these things? Maybe it's because they're not balanced well? | ||
| 99x1 |
"During the past week I've had to put the battery in my X1 on the battery tender three times already. Its a new oddessy battery, and a new voltage regulator." Disconnect the battery ground connection when the bike sits for a while - if it then starts OK, you have a current bleed somewhere - and the battery/charge is probably OK. Don't rely on your tripmeter for guessing how much gas you have left - it resets to zero each time you disconnect the battery (from personal experience!). Check the connections at the regulator - the output terminal is difficult to get at on an X1. The sealed Oddessy battery also doesn't like getting overcharged - (it loses cranking amps) - check you are not going above 15 volts when rev'd. Good Luck.... | ||
| Reepicheep |
Is that 13.8V at high RPM thing reliable? Seems to me that this would not be able to differentiate between a bad charging system and a bad battery. Or even between a good and a bad battery. | ||
| Opto |
With 13.8V to 14.5V at the battery terminals with engine running at 3000rpm you would know that the charging system is definitely working. A 12V lead-acid battery measures around 12.6V to 12.9V if it's OK with the engine off. It cannot reach 14V without outside help.This test has nothing to do with deciding if you've got a good or bad battery. Batteries can be tested with a load tester at a workshop, but even this will not single out intermittent batteries that occasionally fail to crank the engine over. | ||
| Bomber |
All . . .I THINK this is the right place for this question . . . .. . . I just fincshed the voltage regulator relocation project (VRRP, for those that have an affinity for TLAs) . . .. this involved lengthening the wiring harness by about an inch . . . . . since the project wasn't done all at once, but streched out over about a week, I've lost track of what the orientation of the two-wire connector was when I disconnected it . . . . the connector does not appear to be keyed, that is, it can be connected either way, which leads me to believe that it doesn't matter . . . .am I correct in this assumption? thanks for the backup, gents | ||
| 99x1 |
Yup, the output of the stator to the regulator is AC - so it can be connected either way. | ||
| Bomber |
99 -- thanks a million, sir . . .. . I appreciate it! | ||
| Fullpower |
i am preparing to mount some PIAA driving lights on the XB. i plan to wire them in to the high beam circuit with a relay. any good ideas on where to mount the lights? thanks, dean | ||
| Bomber |
Full not the greatest pic in the world, but you can see the lights I mounted on my M2 . . . made some mounts from aluminum . . . . .  snugged up right below the headlight on either side of it | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
My battery is getting a bit lazy on my 99 M2, if I leave it more than a week without running I have to jump start or charge it, local HD/Buell dealer says it's a sportster gel battery, and they want around €120 that's about 140-150 USD. (seems a bit stiff to me for a battery) Are there aftermarket alternatives? if so who makes em? how much? Part numbers? Cheers.  | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thats way expensive. The factory harley part here in the states was like $80 or something (a nice absorbed glass matt unit). Of course, its a heavy SOB, so shipping may be whats killing you... Rocket had a cool red battery on his S1, anybody remember what that was? | ||
| Bomber |
Oddysey, or Homer, or some such | ||
| Rocketman |
Rocket does have a cool red battery on his Buell - but it's dead! I've not had much success with these gel batteries. They don't seem to have a very long life span, but anyway....... Mr Grumpy, contact Demon Tweeks and order a Red Top 20 battery. It is made in the UK by DMS technologies. Demon Tweeks will ship it anywhere. Last time I bought one (over 2 years ago) it was £79. Also, invest in an Optimate III charger. They are simply brilliant and the ONLY way to keep a gel battery optimized. Rocket | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Cheers Rocket I'll try the charger & see if it'll keep it going. | ||
| Rocketman |
Well Grumps, an Optimate charger will recover any duff battery providing it's recoverable. Of course, what that really means is where other chargers fail an Optimate may still succeed. I also use them in the workshop with great results and they will never damage a battery no matter what. Rocket | ||
| Mbsween |
Okay here I go again 2001 X1, Race ECM, Force intake, White Bros pipe. All of this is pretty old stuff (at least 3000 miles) A short while back the Voltage Regulator died and then the battery (not charging). I replace both and life was fine. Now when I press the starter, I get the check engine light, not every time but most. The starter, turns for a second, stops for a second, then goes on like normal. The check engine light stays on for a couple seconds and goes away. The battery is charging, so I'm thinking the VR is okay It seems like the bike is starting to run rough, almost like there's some (just enough to feel) extra vibration. It seems to accelerate fine and I've ran it up to 120mph from 50mph a couple times, ran like normal The FI is dumping codes 24,25,23,32,33 which are Front Coil, Rear Coil, Front Injector, Rear Injector, Fuel Pump. I replaced the coil, but that didn't change anything. I've also cleaned and retightened the major grounds. It seems like that many codes indicates a short somewhere and I am a loss and now I'm missing riding season Any ideas? | ||
| Dave |
Matt - check that thick braided ground cable (under the battery box) and ensure it's clean and tight. My S1W gave me similar probs (without the trouble codes) and it was loose. DAve | ||
| Mbsween |
Dave, did you end up replacing it or just cleaning? Mine looks pretty whipped. I'm going to try cleaning first. Hope this is it. Thanks for the pointer How's life with only two Buells? (you did sell the S1WL right?) Matt | ||
| Dave |
I just cleaned the connections on each end making sure maximum metal to metal by sanding/removing paint under the bonding point. Yeah Art in AZ is enjoying that shaaaa-weeet S1W. It's okay though, I think he has got more riding time on it in the last couple months than I did in over a year.  I'm hooked on my S2 and S3. Plus I have my SUV *gasp* Tiger. DAve | ||
| Mbsween |
Dave, the Tiger is way cool, I test rode it at Vintage days a couple years back. I counldn't touch the ground , except with one toe. Turns out it was the ground wire in the VR. It was all corroded and such. Now I have 3 very clean , properly torqued ground wires and she runs like a champ! Thanks you guys going to "running the ridge"? Looking forward to seeing some people there | ||
| 99x1 |
"Turns out it was the ground wire in the VR..." The ground connection from the voltage regulator is also carried by the lockwashers (item 5) between the VR and the mount. This also spaces the VR so heat doesn't transfer from the engine to the VR (on engine mounted VRs). Kind of a PITA to get them on without dropping....  edited by 99X1 on April 11, 2004 | ||
| Mbsween |
John, Thanks for the input nice drawing, I have that washer in the wrong place. The drawing shows one, but you use the plural "...by the lockwashers..." are there supposed to be 2? The 2001 parts manual doesn't show those washers at all. I have one washer and I assumed it went with the ground wire thats on the back of the regulator. I see now that the screw on the back of the regulator is hitting the bracket (paint is scratched up) I thought the problem was fixed but as it turns out I think it appears fixed because I'm charging the battery between test (battery tender). I'm getting 12.5 - 12.6 volts at idle. That seems low to me. I did the regulator bleed test (okay), the stator resistance test (both pins okay as well as resistance between pins). And I did the Stator AC volts out (around 52v give or take). Also now the battery (brand new odyssey PC545 MJ) is giving twenty starts then won't turn it over anymore. I'm wondering if the starter is the issue, maybe its drawing way to much current. Electricity sucks  Nice pic in the profile by the way | ||
| 99x1 |
My 1999 X1 service manual shows lockwashers on both bolts between the VR and the bracket, the posted picture is from the online (1996?) S1 manual. Maybe this was dropped after 1999? 12.5 to 12.6 at idle is low - no charging is taking place. Sounds like your stator is OK, possibly your regulator is gone. With the regulator disconnected and if your meter has a diode test position, with the negative lead on the positive output lead of the VR, placing the positive lead on either stator lead should show ~0.4 to 0.6 volts. Likewise, with the positive lead on the negative screw of the regulator, placing the negative lead on either stator lead should show ~0.4 to 0.6 volts. Reversing the leads for the above tests should show opens. Measuring between the stator leads should show two diode drops in one direction(~0.8 to 1.2 volts), and open in the other. Common faults are the shunt regulator SCR shorting (short between stator leads), or one of the diodes opening up. (The positive side diodes are isolated from the chassis, and run hotter - usually the diodes to the positive lead will fail). Also check the stator wires on the engine side haven't rubbed through to the engine cases - check resistance from each lead to ground. Good Luck! | ||
| Reepicheep |
MBSween... how do you know the starter is drawing way too much current? Those things draw current by bucketload anyway, and it is hard to measure with common tools. Double check your stator leads to ground resistance. I had identical symptoms to yours, could have sworn I measure the same good stator voltage you read, and ran around in circles. Started from scratch with a clear head, and the first test I ran showed a shorted stator, and that the stator was only generating 5.6v (not 56V). No idea if it was a cascading failure, or a brain cramp, but I am pretty careful about what I do and have a hard time believing I missed two tests that were so obvious (stator outputs not grounded, 56 volts from stator). It's easy enough to re-run the tests... | ||
| Hootowl |
Mbsween, Do you have the new style Y exhaust hanger? If so, your VR bracket will be different than the stock bracket on a 99 model. Also, on the right side of the starter, there's a little plate held on with three machine screws. Take these out and check the condition of the contacts in there. These contacts carry the current from the battery to the starter. The starter solenoid, when energized, slams into these contacts while thrusting the starter gear into the back of the gear behind the clutch. They have a tendency to recede ever time. Mine is doing the EXACT same thing, and I believe (though I haven't replaced them yet) that replacing these contacts will cure what ails us. I'm ordering a starter rebuild kit today, so I'll keep you posted. Jeff | ||
| Mbsween |
Reep, I'm just pissing and moaning. I can't make this go away and now I'm missing valuable riding time. My 20 yr old KZ finally wore out the top end, so I'm bikeless (even tho there are two in the garage)  To the problem, I redid the tests (stator, vr) and I cleaned the vr ground again. Also for kicks, I put the washers behind the regulator. Okay, so fire her up and now I'm seeing 12.75v at the battery to start and 13.2 after 40 - 60 seconds. I ran to 4K rpm and it stuck at 14.06. Go figure, what I did shouldn't have changed anything, yet here I sit with a working charging system. This is what's killing me with this f'in problem. I look at it one way, I get one thing. I look at it another I see a different issue. The only thing consistent is the trouble codes at startup. Again, I know the components the FI is complaining about work. So I wondering if I'm seeing the effects and not the cause. Hence pondering the starter's role. Since its the biggest consumer of amps on the bike, its the likely culprit to fry stuff. My bet is a intermittent short somewhere along the way, either in a component or a wire. I've gone through the major wires and grounds, they are all fine. One test that bugged me is the Milliamp draw test (disconnect battery negative cable, put meter between battery terminal and the negative cable). The manual calls for 3 ma or less, mine was 5ma. So here's a guess, assuming I did the test right The measurement was accurate (I don't have another meter or way to test this one) My starter is getting worn and draws more current than normal (bike has ~ 17000 miles) The battery gets worn down from the 5 ma draw, It gets low during starting, the FI sees low voltage on some sensors and issues the warning. The bike runs for a minute, the charging system gets everything back where it belongs and all is well till the next time. I fully admit this is a Swag. Bill, I like your procedure much better. Hell If someone I work with brought this diagnosis to me, I'd ask what he was drinking. I wish I could find a broken wire, or Stator , or VR that stayed broken! I'd stop bitchin and start riding. Hoot, The 2001 has the updated hanger stock. I'm taking a break from wrenching, but eagerly awaiting an update on your starter rebuild. Do you get the same FI codes? WHat's the part # for the kit? Thanks for wading through what has to be my longest post yet. Matt | ||
| Hootowl |
Still trying to find a part number on the rebuild kit... | ||
| Hootowl |
Found a kit for big twins...parts look the same. The tech guys are researching and are supposed to be getting back with me. In the mean time, I removed the contacts and sanded them down with 150 grit paper.   Notice the recession on the larger contact. The contact on the plunger is spring loaded to compensate for the differential in contact height, so I didn't worry about trying to get them the same. Put it all back together, and it fired right up. No clicking. The hardest part of the job was finding the washer I dropped. An hour wasted with a reach magnet and a flashlight. You wouldn't believe the number of places a washer can hide in the tangle of wires and hoses under your battery. Not to mention the hole that leads to more hoses under the engine. mbsween, take that little cover off and see what you find. It may be a cheap fix. Jeff | ||
| Road_thing |
But when you pull the solenoid apart, BE SURE you have disconnected the battery. There's a mission-critical spring in there that will burn itself slap in two in about a nanosecond if you put battery voltage across it. Never mind how I know this... r-t | ||
| Pilot |
The larger contact is toast.I would have replaced it whilst it is down.I work on these things and yes the contacts are available seperately.Maybe not from HD but from Auto Electrical stores.This style of starter is made by nippon denso and is used on a lot of toyota vehicles some isuzu as well.The transfer of copper particles depletes one contact and not the other.And yes the spring will suddenly become 2 pieces when contacting 12v.I know how RT knows this.Great minds think alike or is it fools seldom differ. |
