| Author | Message | ||
     Thunderbike |
Thanks Reepicheep & Hootowl. I appreciate the help.As once during a group ride it happened to another fellow Bueller and the crankseal came up.I'm going to be in there anyways soon cus I Want to update my shift drum and check the chain tensioner(though the chain play was within specs the last time i checked).Does the Harley synth oil really work ok in the trans,as I may just use that instead,thanks again. | ||
| Leeaw |
Thunderbike, it was recommended to me when I did a 500 mile change on my XB, and it works fine. Can't say if I notice any huge improvement but it is a little piece of mind. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I see a huge difference in shifting between the stock sport-trans fluid, and mobil 1 gear oil. I can tell immediately with the first shift. 20w50 full synthetic feels (to me) pretty similar to the sport-trans. Are you updating the shift drum, or the shifter detent plate? Detent plate is an easy job. Shifter drum (i.e. Baker Smooth Shift Kit) is a serious chunk of work. Anyway, I got more shifting improvement out of a $8 bottle of mobil 1 gear oil then I did out of $200 worth of Banke shifter parts. The two things together rock. And when I rebuilt my tranny, I polished the shifter drum (filed down raised lips, polished the rest of the surface with 1200 grit paper). The net result of that, the mobil 1, and the Banke shifter kit is a transmission that feels positively Japaneese... (though still with a non-girly man clutch pull that the limp wristed types whine about  "> ). edited by reepicheep on October 03, 2003 | ||
| Reepicheep |
Here are some pictures of the trickiest part of my transmission rebuild... pressing that 5th gear drive assembly out of the case. Before somebody else goes down this road, you might want to try assembling a tool that will press out and in the needle bearings right in the 5th gear assembly in place. I can think of a way that would be worth a try. Anyway, the normal factory procedure is documented well in the service manual, these pictures just show my workarounds to avoid the $150 Harley tool, and instead using parts available from your local home store. First, here is the problem I was trying to fix. This is looking into the 5th gear drive assembly from the belt side.  Next, here are the tools I used for the job. They were all off the shelf from a local Home Depot and Lowes. The stock steel was cut down with a cheap angle grinder. This is post install, you can see how it was slightly bent.  The long steel piece straddled the face of the transmission case where the trapdoor bolts in (just like the factory tool). I would give the nut about a quarter turn, tap the nut up down right and left with a hammer (as I could not be sure it was exactly centered with my setup), then repeat. It took a while, but was pretty straightforward. I was darn happy to see that thing finally start to move. Reinstalling used about the same parts, but included the large piece of conduit. Here is what it looked like from the tranny side and the belt side   Finally, while I was in there, I replaced my crank seal to stop the transmission fluid puking out the tranny vent on hard riding. Here is the "custom tool" I used for that, it is just a split piece of copper pipe with smoothed edges. It worked great, but you need to keep an eye on seating depth.  Feel free to email with any questions. Over all it went pretty well. My advice to anyone else trying it is to make sure you carefully clean the threads on the crank and mainshaft before applying loktite. I did not, and it worked loose and I had to go back in there and retorque it. After I fixed that, I had to go back in a second time because the four bolts that connect the alternator rotor to the front primary chain sprocket because *they* worked loose (probably as a result of the rotor banging around in there when the first got loose). | ||
| Snowdave |
I am happy to report that the mod I mentioned above has resulted in NO MORE MISSED 2nd gear shifts! Now if only it still didn't shift like a truck. I guess I will have to mount my banke to this bike....I just don't know where to put the kickstand with the banke on it. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Good news Snowdave. I imagine that might be a cheap alternative to replacing a gear pair as the dogs wear. What's the issue with the Banke? I have one on my 2000 Cyclone, and there are no issues with the side stand... Mine are the "little bit backsets", I think they originally came from an S2 or an S1 that gave it's life to the track. I know Blake is running the full Banke rearsets on his M2, I don't recall him having any sidestand issues. Are you using Mobil 1 gear lube? And did you take the time to get the primary chain tension really dialed in, and get the shifter adjusted to where it has the most leverage? I did this, and get a nice light snick - snick - snick now. I got a lot more out of the Mobil 1 then I did the Banke setup, but the two together are REALLY nice. | ||
| Snowdave |
My bike has had the rear pegs cut off. With that, the kickstand also came off. I fabricated/modified the stand to mount on the flat on the primary cover where the banke would normally mount. Therefore I don't know where I would put a kickstand if I installed the banke. I did adjust the shifter, but I did not use Mobil 1 or pay much attention to the tensioner. I know better than that, but I had to make it to the Slimey Crud run yesterday and I had just run out of time. When I change the oil today, I will make these adjustments. My experience on my other Buell however was that the shifter was a HUGE improvement. That and the M6 tensioner which I have since stopped using for all the other reasons mentioned on this site. Thanks, Dave | ||
| Bk911 |
Hello, Recently a car backed into my bike while it was parked having it fall onto the shifter side .The shifter and the clutch lever was replaced by a bike shop. Now when I shift into second gear sometimes the gears slips but only in second gear all the other gears feel fine. It happens around 6k rpm and also when I shift into second anytime I'm over 7k rpm from first. Is it possible that the bike needs to be adjusted or is a begining of a major problem ? Also what can i do to fix it? Thanks all..Ben | ||
| Reepicheep |
Depends on how you measure "major". I doubt that it was a result of the crash, but that may have made an existing problem more noticable. Start with the simple stuff, but it probably won't fix it. Carefully set primary chain tension. Switch to Mobil 1 Gear oil. Carefully adjust the shifter position to give you the best leverage without hitting th cases. But that is probably not the problem, and it will probably only keep getting worse. What is likely happening is that the dogs are worn on the second gear pair. You might be able to use the mod Snowdave listed above. But the real fix is to just replace that second gear pair. As long as you have one of the tube framers (update your profile!) it is a pretty easy job. The second gear pair ends up at like $110 or so (as I recall) and is not hard to get in. The historonics you see me listing above in this thread are how to press out that 5th gear drive assembly, which you should not have to do. What you have to do is *much* easier, about the only "special" tool you will need are some "big honkin sockets" and some snap ring pliars, and a particular sized drill bit to calibrate the shift detent plate on reassembly. The factory manual gives detailed listings of what to do and what you need. Depending on your milage (again, update your profile!) you may want to refresh some of the bearings and spacers in the tranny (cheap) and give that 5th gear drive assembly a real careful inspection (while still in bike). If it goes, you trash a transmission shaft, which drives up the amount of work and costs substantially. Also, while you have it apart, look for a raised lip on the shift drum, where the pins on the shift forks ride. File those back flush (or even bevel them in just a little) and shifting will be much nicer across the board. The whole job looks a lot worse then it is. Take your time, do one step at a time and do it well, and be careful and it will likely go really well. The whole job should be less then $150 in parts, which is a pretty cheap tranny rebuild. | ||
| Phatkidwit1eye |
I just installed my new Baker smooth shift kit. I'm still finishing up all my adjustments so I'm not too sure yet how well it works, but as i buttoned her up last night I looked at my old detent plate and the new one that came with the baker. My old detent plate is the updated one and As I compared that too the baker I noticed they were different looking. I really didn't think much about it as I figured it was part of the "smooth shifting" but I was looking at the x1 files (great site btw) and noticed that the baker detent plate looks almost identical too the old style detent. Maybe I'm seeing things, but if this is the case should I and mainly can I use the newer detent plate and will this affect the "smooth shifting"? | ||
| Henrik |
Phatkid: I put in the updated plate when I installed the smooth kit - not so smooth ... I'd stick with the plate that came with the kit. Not that I'm thrilled, but it seems to work better than the updated HD/Buell plate. henrik | ||
| Bomber |
I bought a copy of "101 Performance Mods for Your Harley" right after getting my Y2K Ma Deuece . . . . I know these kind of books are generally full of snake oil recipes, but, never having had an HD engie before 9except for the Knuckle I owned in High School {no it wasn't new {{grin}}}}) I figured I'd take a chance . . . . there is a fairly detailed write up regarding shimming the transmission gears for japanese-like shifting . . . .sounds a little like snowdave's mod . . .. . . .anyone tried this? | ||
| Phatkidwit1eye |
Help!!  I just installed my baker smooth shift kit and now I cant get it too go into 4th gear. I did the pawl adjustment with the correct drill bit and all and every thing is adjusted correctly but it still wont go into 4th gear. It feels like when i shift into 4th gear its hitting the last neutral lobe and wont pass over it. Has any one had troubles with the detent plate on there shift kit? Such as it not being machined correctly? Its really starting too get me all sorts of p@#$ed. I just want my bike back  | ||
| Aaron |
How much time have you put on it? | ||
| Phatkidwit1eye |
At this point I put about ten or so miles on it. going from 1st too 3rd shifts real nice but going into 4th it just will not roll over into 4th for what ever reason. I know ten miles doesn't seem like a lot of time but I really would hate too cause any more problems by trying too get into 4th. It has been one giant pain and for the most part it was a pretty simple job, its just a pain disassembling every thing all over again. I had too call ten different hardware stores too find the correct size bit, then drive all over the place trying too find the correct sockets too take off the clutch basket and such. Then I noticed my clutch cable was froze so I drove 2 hours too get a new one b/c no one around me had a cable then today when I was getting it ready too take a test spin I almost dropped the bike as I was taking it off the stand but I caught it and I broke my mirror. I'm not really upset at the situation as I have a good sense of humor about these things, but it's the part that I wasn't able too get it too work right, after making sure numerous times every thing was adjusted correctly. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Stick with it Phattie! It will work out. I had to pull my primary cover two more times before I was done for stupid little stuff, and my clutch pack was acting weird the first two times I tried to readjust it (eventually resulting in an accidentally glazed clutch). The smooth shift kit has a new shift drum, right? So it should not be raised lips on the grooves in the drum. I had that and needed to clean it up. You did not have any trouble getting the new drum through the old shift forks, did you? Maybe one of the spacers or gears got on there backwards or was missing on reassembly. As i recall the manual gives a really nice exploded diagram to show order of what goes where, but some of those gears look a LOT alike. It would be easy to cross something up.  It gets easier to get in there the more often you do it... | ||
| Aaron |
In general, unless you lube the bejeezus out of the drum and forks as you assemble the thing, it can take a bit for the shifting to work. I've seen it take 1/2 hour easy to work lube in there and allow shiting to 4th. I'd keep running it. | ||
| Phatkidwit1eye |
Thanks for the advice...I got off work tonight and took her on a long spin and slowly its starting too shift into 4th now. Although it was pretty cold about 35 degrees or so, but I had too get her running right again. I really do appreciate all the advice and tips every one has given me.  | ||
| 2bbuell |
Has anybody used any other shift mods that really helps tube bikes (S1W) other than the a)New style detent, b)Banke shifter, c)Baker smooth shift and the Mobil 1 Gear oil? Mine shifts OK without the above, but I would like to remedy the "sloppy/clunky/numb" as much as possible without having to put out big bucks- and I want to find out as many options as possible before making a plunge. | ||
| Dave |
Get a new style shifter. I'm running the new detente, mobile one and new shifter on my S3 and it''s a marked improvement. DAve | ||
| Reepicheep |
When I pulled my tranny apart, there were raised lips in the shift drum (really a big cylinder) where the pins for the shift forks ride in that groove. These "lips" drag on the shift forks. If you file these down, and maybe even bevel them in just a hair, shifting gets easier. Kind of a poor mans Baker smooth shift kit. Though given the amount of time required to pull and replace that drum, the Baker looks cheaper by the moment. At least one other person has seen this here. I was whimpy when I did mine, as I had not heard of the problem before, and in hindsight wish I had filed on it a little more aggressively. | ||
| Artesian |
A little bit off topic here- I am frequently shifting from 1st to neutral when speed shifting and trying to hit second... Happened three times in one night, and I am not a retard- just cant figure it out... I even consciously pull up hard for the first shift, and it feels just a little segmented.. like 1st-n-2nd... I thought it wasnt supposed to feel that way... Also, of course I am expecting to hit 2nd, so I goose it.. Am I hurting my tranny? Hit neutral and basically rev it to like 4-5,000... Just curious, I have a 2001 M2L and I am starting to get worried after reading all this tech talk about tranny work... I dont do that stuff good at all. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Really sweat your primary chain tension adjustment, clutch adjustment, put in mobil 1 gear oil, and really spend some time pinning down the perfect shifter linkage adjustments. Your profile says 2001 cyclone... I think that has the old primary tensioner. If you have not replaced that yet with the upgraded part, do it. The old one could be splitting. They are all a lot of little tweaks, but the net effect at the other end can be huge. | ||
| Rippin |
Anyone here installed a Johnson Ind. Sportgear in their bikes? Dave I believe they have you on their site as a reference. Seems quite abit less then the baker 6speed. Also with improvements from 1-4th being closer. Thanks Ryan | ||
| Aaron |
All it does is make 1st through 4th shorter, with a correspondingly bigger jump to 5th which remains 1:1. Doesn't change the spacing from 1st through 4th. Ironic that in the days of the 4-speed, when the bikes had a huge jump from 3rd to 4th, Andrews made gear sets to fix it, i.e. make 1st/2nd/3rd taller and even up the spacing to 4th. Now that the bikes are made that way, there's a kit offered to go back! Doesn't make sense to me. | ||
| 1320 |
Does anyone have the actual bearing numbers for the tranny bearings that go in the RIGHT side of the case? Need the actual numbers on the bearings for the countershaft, shift drum, main drive gear, and the split bearings for the main and countershaft gears if you have them?? Thanks!! | ||
| Hoser |
Joe: Here's those bearing numbers , I should list them all for the clutch and transmission. HD number Description Actual number 8885 Clutch pressure plate 6200 C3 36799-91 Clutch shell/hub 6207 C3 35030-89 Trans.door mainshaft 6305 C3 8998 Trans. door countershaft 6204 C3 8996A Case-M/S RH ballbearing FAG 559322 8977 Case-C/S RH Closed needle INA BK2526 9151 Case-shift drum closed needle ? 35051-89 5th gear needle-2 reqd. INA HK2520 8876A Needle bearing-split 4 reqd. ? Those split needles , I know of no alternatives that can be purchased at a Bearing supply store , they can be had through a number of other sources , like Jims , Zippers . The small closed end needle bearing which is pressed into the right case half and supports the right end of the shift drum , that was the only one I didnt have , I have all these numbers written on a list but I think that list is at work , these numbers were taken directly off the actual bearings and the packages they come wrapped in. Jeff | ||
| Hoser |
Joe: I found the details on the shift drum closed needle bearing , ........................... 9151................INA BCE108 When you start looking at some of these bearings you may notice that they are sourced from a variety of countries , like Portugal , Singapore , Canada , USA. Most of the ball bearings have plastic cages , which I'm not fond of , when and if you decide to replace some of these it would be beneficial to use high quality pieces made by SKF , Torrington , Timken , FAG ,INA , and such , cheaper substitutions may not have such good service life. Jeff | ||
| 1320 |
Thanks for the help, Jeff & Reepicheep. Really appreciate it!! | ||
| Lake_bueller |
Stumped again  Last summer I developed a situtation that only occurred in first gear. The problem was that the bike would engage in the gear and initiate forward motion. Then about 2-3 seconds later, it would really "grab". It seemed like something was not quite catching completely. To confuse things, it only happened in 1st gear and only under hard acceleration. The consensious of the BadWeb folks was a problem with either the gear or counter gear for 1st gear. After pulling the transmission, I don't see any signs of wear. So, any other ideas? I haven't rebuilt the clutch (yet). Because it only happens in first gear, it would lead me to beleive the problem is not clutch related. But I've also been wrong many times before  Any help would be greatly appreciated. I really want to finish my S1W project  |
