| Author | Message | ||
     Newbuellertoo |
2000 s3t - 24,485 kms. The bike has developed a weird noise. At very slow speeds, coasting with the clutch pulled in you can hear a low pitched "squeel" that goes high and low. (Almost like the sound of a swing on an old rusty swing set). The bike is also vibrating like a S.O.B. I can feel it through the pegs now and it doesn't smooth out over 3k R.P.M. like it used to. It actually puts my hands to sleep in less than 30 minutes. (The vibration just gets worse with higher revs.) It was never this bad before! It also feels like something is binding or dragging the engine down,and can really feel the decel when you let off the throttle (almost like a 60 m.p.h. headwind) and it even sounds strained at idle. I have checked the clutch adjustment, Primary (3/4" play at the tight spot), Mobil 1 V-Twin 20-50 in the tranny at the correct level, lifted the rear wheel and spun it - no noise or brake drag, removed the R/S guard, Pulley seems okay - no play, Drive belt sloppy loose as usual. Three things have changed since this started happening. 1/ Changed to Mobil 1 20-50 synth 2/ Caught in a number of huge rainstorms that totally saturated the bike and forced riding through inundated roads. 3/ Developed a small oil leak that drips onto the shock. (Reservoir leak?) I have an extended warranty so I will not be doing any extensive dis-assembly to root cause. But I would like to have an idea where to start when talking to the service dept. at the dealership. Be kind, I'm still a newbie here, and even more naive when it comes to dealing with the shop. I love this bike but it is starting to be just a little too quirky to trust for a daily commuter which is what I use it for. (100+ kms. every day) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Might be a few different issues. Do you have the new primary chain tensioner upgraded part? If you haven't, then that is probably your problem. The stock ones in 2000 were prone to breaking. Any new troubles shifting? And if you remove the belt from the front pulley, and turn that pulley by hand in neutral, does it feel at all "crunchy" (for lack of a better term). For the vibration, sounds like isolators or a heim joint is worn out or broken. Thats a 2000, did you get the new exhaust mount upgrade? That could do it as well, and you don't want to mess with the old one unless you want a broken exhaust stud (and while you are looking around the bike, check those as well and make sure they are still there). | ||
| Newbuellertoo |
Reep, I'm not sure if I have the new tensioner, but the current one seems to work. (I added a little more play into the chain over the weekend as I was afraid it was too tight. The chain moved when the adjuster was turned) I'm pretty sure the adjustment is good. I did the mark on the tight spots, Tape beside the inspection hole with 1/4 " marks to measure free play. Adjusted it once, checked it THREE times! Yes for the shifting issues. It has popped out of neutral a couple of times recently and on a number of occasions where I have stopped at a light without downshifting while slowing, I have had a bear of a time getting the tranny back through the gears to get into first. Since I've owned the bike, about 50% of my 1st to 2nd upshifts have been accomplished with a "Crunch" instead of a "Clunk" regardless of load or R.P.M. I haven't removed the belt to turn the pulley, I will try that as soon as I get a chance. As stated with the rear wheel off of the ground in neutral there are no noises when the wheel is turned. A little brake drag, but nothing to explain what is happening here. I guess that could be explained by there being no load on any of the components when doing that. I have a V&H slip-on, and I have checked everything for tightness and/ or cracks but can't see anything obvious.(With the old style front mount I believe.) What would an obvious sign of front isolator failure be? I've looked at everything (I think), but haven't seen anything that would make me go "Aha! I know the best way to start is to ask what's changed, so I listed these above. Could the thicker "Dino" oil previously in the tranny have masked the noise that I'm hearing. I've heard others here say that they have increased engine mechanical noise after switching to Synth? Could the bike just be mad at me because it overheard me talking to my son about wanting an ElectraGlide for slab riding?  | ||
| Newbuellertoo |
Okay, just took it out in the sun and crawled over, under and around it again. I noticed that the drive belt was rubbing against the engine case. I can move the belt laterally on the pulley. The rear wheel is centered within a millimter side to side at the adjusters. Belt too loose? May explain the noise but not the other symptoms. Any ideas? (Message edited by newbuellertoo on August 05, 2008) | ||
| 5liter |
Just a S.W.A.G, but is the rear brake dragging? Might be why the engines working harder. D'OH....... Just read all of your second post. I guess it's not dragging.  (Message edited by 5liter on August 05, 2008) | ||
| Newbuellertoo |
Off to work now. (Not on the bike...Damn) I'm afraid of doing damage to whatever is causing the problem. Thanks for the ideas so far guys. I'll check in when I get home tonight, and hopefully have some time tomorrow to check out any suggestions. Thanks in advance for any and all advice. Even S.W.A.G.'s (LOL) | ||
| Reepicheep |
You can't really tell if the tensioner is "half broken" or not without pulling the primary cover. If it is the original tensioner, or there is any doubt that it might be the original tensioner, I would definitely pull the cover and verify / replace. The back plate will crack half way through, but be captive (for a while). The tensioner bolt is then bearing directly on the nylon tensioner, which will also eventually break up. So it acts like it is not broken all the way up to the point where it sends shrapnel through your primary. It'll act "funny" under load, but is hard to really tell. You will need a new primary gasket if you pull it, but the new metal one is a lot better then the original paper anyway. I would definitely start there, deal with that, and re-analyze after that is dealt with. I think a little play of the belt on the pulley is normal... but not the pulley on the shaft. Thats a big deal, you could destroy the splines. If shifting issues, particularly something like getting "stuck in fifth gear" happens, or you get odd noises from the *right* side of the bike, it could be the 5th gear drive assembly, usually hurt as a result of running the belt too tight (IMHO). The easiest way to try and diagnose that is to pull off the belt (just move it out of the way) and turn the pulley in neutral by hand in a very quiet garage. It should not be catchy, notchy, crunchy, or grindy. But I would not even start doing that until after the primary tensioner was all cleared up. | ||
| Newbuellertoo |
Thanks Reep, I'll give those things a try tomorrow. Thanks for your constant replies and help. | ||
| Reepicheep |
No problem. Its less frustrating then trying to fix my klr-250  | ||
| Newbuellertoo |
Okay here's what I found today: Removed drive belt - Rear wheel off the ground, tried turning the pulley with and without clutch lever pulled in. Pulley turns withs no grinding noises but with some resistance. I don't know how much is normal. It wouldn't spin on it's own if you know what I mean. If I grab the pulley and shake it, I can get some lateral / up & down movement (Not much, but enough to feel it move) and hear it knocking. Again, I don't know what the allowable tolerances are, so I don't know if this is normal. While the bike was on the stand I put a jack under the front shock mount to lift the front wheel to check for any drag. Slight brake noise , but not really enough to account for the drag I'm feeling. I lifted the gas tank slightly to get a look at the front Isolator. There was a gap between the rubber and the hold down which disappeared when I took the jack down. Is this normal? Although I have no reason not to trust the dealership, I would assume that they will balk at just "checking" a large list of items under warranty. (Especially if it requires some major disassembly.) I'm told by other Buell riders that they have a couple of very good Buell mechanics so I'm not concerned about the quality of the work, just whether or not they will be prepared to take a hit on the extended warranty. Any advice / comments will be welcomed.  | ||
| Reepicheep |
Its a big heavy ball bearing on the outside, and a couple of roller bearings on the inside, has a rubber seal on it, and it *should* be covered with oil. So it will probably never spin freely. No grinding or notchyness is good! I think that is fine. | ||
| Newbuellertoo |
Thanks Bill, Any comments on the isolator. I have seen a number of posts here recently regarding failures. Would a shot isolator lead to the increase in vibration that I am experiencing? | ||
| 5liter |
Did you check your exhaust system while you had it up? | ||
| Reepicheep |
The isolators are probably the one part on my M2 that didn't fail, so I don't know much about them  The role of isolators is to deal with vibration though, so it seems it could. Oh! And 5liter reminded me... do you have the updated front exhaust mount? It looks like a big beefy cast upside down Y. That old mount is another part that is pretty much guaranteed to fail. | ||
| Hoser |
Pry out the seal on the right end of fifth gear , this is where the two needle bearings live ,that support the right end of the mainshaft. Tell us what you find , my guess is rust , a telltale sign of water contaminated lube and failed needle bearings. | ||
| Newbuellertoo |
Yup, Checked the exhaust (V&H Slip on) the front mount is the old one but looks okay as far as I can tell. (No cracks , still tight.) The rubber was still fairly pliable when I had the muffler off during the winter. Hoser, since I paid so much for the extended warranty, I will get the dealership to check. (if they will) I also don't want to void the warranty by screwing something up myself. Thanks for the info though. This problem actually has only started since the bike and I rode rode through some severe thunderstorms and deep water. Maybe just coincidence. | ||
| Newbuellertoo |
Just got off the phone with the dealership. Because I told her it was somewhat of an emergency in that I may be causing more damage by riding the bike in it's current condition, she has squeezed me in for Aug. 20 in the a.m. August 20th !!!!! I thought someone said Harley was hurting!!!! Sure doesn't sound like it based on how busy this dealership is. Oh well, I'll just keep trying to root cause the problem and hope nothing major happens. | ||
| Kilroy |
Hurting typically means new unit sales. I would bet that you wouldn't have to wait until Aug 20 to set up a purchase appt! | ||
| Newbuellertoo |
Yea, you are probably right Kilroy. I'm sure they could squeeze in a dealer prep for a sale any day or time. Can anyone answer my question about whether or not the Hold down & Bolt should lift up when lifting the engine leaving a gap to the rubber (Isolator)? When I finally do get the bike in, I would like to give the dealership some pretty positive direction on what I would like done. Also when the shock starts leaking, would I expect to see oil on the shaft? Sorry for all the newbie questions but not having my bike "Right" is making me crazy! | ||
| Kilroy |
There was a post a while back that had a close up photo of that area and indeed there was a small gap. Try a search - probably 3 or 4 months ago - | ||
| 5liter |
Newbuellertoo: Any news???? | ||
| Newbuellertoo |
Not yet. I took the bike in Saturday, but the actual appointment was for this morning. It was running so poorly that I just didn't want to ride it and possibly cause more problems. Of course we are in the middle of the best stretch of weather we have had all summer and driving the Jeep to work instead of riding is costing me a fortune!!! I'll update with what they found as soon as I hear from them. (Hopefully soon!) Thanks for checking . | ||
| Newbuellertoo |
Two days to diagnose a bad clutch bearing. Now waiting for approval from H.D. Warranty and for parts. I was too stunned to ask about the shock leak when he told me to call back tomorrow night to see if they could at least give me a ball park estimate on when it would be ready. I'm starting to feel as frustrated as Reep working on his klr 250! And of course, not a drop of rain since the bike has been in the shop. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Put the new head gasket in tonight! Tomorrow, I have to finish bolting it back together, run it for a heat cycle, take it back apart, retorque the head bolts, then put it back together. I'm waiting to hear from George Kawasaki if they are going to cover it under warranty  | ||
| 5liter |
Newbuellertoo: Sounds like a major "Franklin Fix". I don't know what that would called be in Canada... | ||
| Newbuellertoo |
Reep, Glad to hear your'e getting close! 5liter, This is a family website so I can't tell what I would call it! I called back today. Part is on order but absolutely no E.T.A.! If it arrives Monday, I might get the bike back Tues. evening. If it arrives Tues.....Wednesday evening and so on. I am on vacation next week and completely bummed out that I am going to lose at least a half of the weeks riding at this point. Anybody have a plane that could pick up the bearing and fly it up here to the Great White North? | ||
| Newbuellertoo |
Tuesday a.m. Still no part, no E.T.A., no bike!!!!! | ||
| Newbuellertoo |
Does anyone have any idea why it would take more than a week to get a bearing for this bike?? Is it because I am in Canada , or is this just a very rare part that seldom fails? I am as frustrated as hell. The weather has been great, I am on vacation, and I can't get an answer from the dealership as to when I might get my bike back!!! I now understand why some people give up on Buell !!! It's been a long time since I've owned a Japanese bike, but I don't remember ever losing it for this long other than accident damage. Even if I was doing the job myself, I would still have to wait to get the damn part!!! It has been 5 weeks now.. 2 weeks it was acting up, 2 weeks for the wait to get into the dealer, and now 1 week waiting for a lousy bearing! The best part of the summer is now gone, and my bike has been unrideable. The season is too short for this kind of S - - t !!!! This would be a great second bike, but unfortunately, I can't afford a more reliable bike for daily riding. This thing has less than 15,000 miles on it and has not really run great consistently since I bought it with 7,000 miles. Thanks for letting me vent. I need to ride !!!!!! | ||
| 5liter |
Newbuellertoo: I feel your pain, but I can't relate. My 2002 has been flawless for the last 37,000 miles. Hope it all works out. | ||
| Court |
What did your dealer tell you? |
