| Author |
Message |
    
Peter Moltmann (Peter)
| | Posted on Monday, October 16, 2000 - 12:14 pm: | 
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OK. I'll be first kid off the block.
88.6hp & 80.4ft/lb
2000 M2 Cyclone
Buell race air filter
Megaphone style Supertrapp with 18 discs
45 pilot, 2 1/2 turns out, 200 main, radiussed slide, hole drilled to 0.110".
Ignition retarded 2°.
NGK DPR9EA-9 plugs
Twin breathers lines into CCI non-return filters
Euro gearing 29:55
These settings work well in Amsterdam, Holland which is usually cool weather and below sea-level.
PPiA |
Zero_the_Hero (Zero_the_hero)
| | Posted on Monday, October 16, 2000 - 12:38 pm: |
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Peter, I can't believe the peak HP some you are getting, here in the states with those mods we see about 78 HP, lately I have seen those high numbers and hope I can pull those off with my bike.
zth |
Peter Moltmann (Peter)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2000 - 03:41 am: |
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zth,
This bike has been an opposite to some others here. It's given me almost zero problems and runs harder than a friends X1 with race ECM etc. (We did back to back dyno runs).
So far so good.
PPiA |
Zero_the_Hero (Zero_the_hero)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2000 - 11:55 am: |
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Peter that is cool that you have a good one, mine has been pretty good, I have the usual exhaust problem with the front bushing, I replace it often so my bike has not broken anything on the exhaust, just got a V&H so I hope I have luck with that. I also had the pinging, but I think I have that solved.
I hope that when I dyno mine I at least hit the 80HP mark!
Good Day
zth |
Koen van der Linden (Grizz)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2000 - 12:02 pm: |
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Hi Pete,
did I hear you say HARDER or FASTER then my X1.
I admit that your dyno readings are much better then mine. Possibly it is related to the period of the first 3000 km ???
here are mine:
Race ECM,
K&N AirFilter,
Guted airbox,
retarded ignition,
Yoshimura muffler,
standard 2 inch headers,
dubble breatherlines without filters,
oil consumption 1 liter at 800 km.
I have new pistons and cylinders after the dyno.
Now, after 3000 veeerryyy slowly and carefully ridden kilometers we are making a new run on the Dyno. Let us see if that makes a diverence.
Grizzly "may the BUELL be with you"
'00 X1 |
Peter Moltmann (Peter)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 17, 2000 - 12:55 pm: |
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Grizzly,
You know that if you get better figures than me, then I'm putting your Yoshi muffler on my bike for a run. What day are you going out?
As for being faster, you can thank me. Part of my wages goes to paying for your track days young fella..........
PPiA |
wayne (Greyone)
| | Posted on Friday, October 20, 2000 - 03:02 am: |
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oops |
wayne (Greyone)
| | Posted on Friday, October 20, 2000 - 03:08 am: |
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wayne (Greyone)
| | Posted on Friday, October 20, 2000 - 03:15 am: |
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cant get the chart on here but i got 101hp & 83 ft-lbs torque |
wayne (Greyone)
| | Posted on Friday, October 20, 2000 - 03:18 am: |
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wayne (Greyone)
| | Posted on Friday, October 20, 2000 - 03:27 am: |
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 |
Sean Pepper (Rocketman)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2000 - 05:12 pm: |
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As promised................
Rocket in England |
BigHairyRalph (Ralph)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 24, 2000 - 07:33 pm: |
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Rocket Dude, that is gorgeous. |
Paul Batts (Xlwp)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 01:37 am: |
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Very Nice, Indeed |
Charley M. de Bruyn (Charley)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 07:45 am: |
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Rocket , can you put the specs of your engine on this forum , so we know where it came from
I'm intrested. |
Sean Pepper (Rocketman)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 03:01 pm: |
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Thanks for the good words, quite frankly, I'm suprised !
OK, I know there good, but these results are achievable by anyone. You will need a few quid, but hey, you don't have to do it in one attempt !
Anyway, as Charley requested :
Dick O'Brien flowed the heads. They are still at stock compression and no messing with the squish.
American Aircooled Cylinders on stock bore with the Wiseco forged pistons.
S&S Crankshaft (complete assembly with rods) , balanced, polished and edged.
Andrews N9 cams.
Taper-lite pushrods.
Jims Powerglide lifters.
Heavy duty valve springs, titanium retainers, etc.
Sporty pushrod tubes.
HSR42
Crane HI4E single fire and s\f coil, Accell 8.8 wires.
Race Kit air filter, header's and can.
Lots of little trinkets from allen head screws to gasket's and most important of all, assembled by Just Harley's technician, Duncan Peace, who is responsible for the fastest road legal 1\4 mile Buell in the world.
Rocket in England |
Frank Ammerman (Torqd)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 09:24 am: |
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Ok rocket...That looks good... here is my 100+ from last year. I wish I would have fixed it to see what it would really do. 103HP and 86ft/lbs on the last dyno.
Nallin ported heads
536 SE Cams
AAC Cyl, Nallins Piston
Stock bottom end
HSR42
SE Ignition and wires
Race kit Exhaust and Air Cleaner
And is nitrous against the law on the street...then he can't be the "fastest road legal 1\4 mile Buell in the world"
Just playin on your words:-}
 |
Peter Moltmann (Peter)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 12:05 pm: |
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Rocket and Frank,
Have you got the flow numbers for your heads?
PPiA |
Frank Ammerman (Torqd)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 02:07 pm: |
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Off the top of my head...
156 intake 117 exhaust @ 10in
I will try to double check when I can. |
Sean Pepper (Rocketman)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 06:59 pm: |
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Peter, as emailed to me from Greg O'Neil on behalf of Dick O'Brien.
Valve Lift............Flow
200 = c.f.m. 78
300 = c.f.m. 126.4
400 = c.f.m. 144.4
500 = c.f.m. 164
600 = c.f.m. 171
EX. 78%
Rocket in England |
John Sachs (Johnsachs)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 09:36 pm: |
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Test |
Mark De Giorgio (Mark_in_ireland)
| | Posted on Friday, October 27, 2000 - 05:18 am: |
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Frank, Nitrous injection is street legal in the UK, don't know about the States though..... |
Frank Ammerman (Torqd)
| | Posted on Friday, October 27, 2000 - 09:28 am: |
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Mark...it was just a joke....Rocket said that his friends bike was
"the fastest road legal 1\4 mile Buell in the world"
And I know that there are many who have been faster on street legal buells(i.e. nitrous turbo, etc)....But I know what rocket is trying to say.
Your guys are lucky that the nallins stopped over a year ago on the buell drag racing:-}
one more thing...Rocket are those numbers at 10 0r 12 in....if it is at 10 you should have LOTS MORE POWER. |
Sean Pepper (Rocketman)
| | Posted on Friday, October 27, 2000 - 09:21 pm: |
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Frank, put your money where your mouth is, and tell me where those many faster Buell's are ?
I see it like this................
For nearly a year now, I've contributed to this board, and as much as I love a good verbal scrap, I often find myself biting my tongue. Why ?
Because too many of the American, but thankfully not all of them, contributors would have us belive the world evolves around the US.
When team Elves broke the LSR's, the board rocked with congratulatory posts for several days. When I posted JH's Modified Buell (street legal) time of 10.41, set last Sunday, and a new world record for the class, whether you belive it or not, not one person came back with a congrats ! Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but if that time was set by an American team, most of you would be ordering up team jackets by now !
ROCKET POWER
Now 10 or 12 ? I wasn't told, but I'd assume it's 10" of water. Well, lets look at the math to see just how much MORE POWER my motor should have.
Given a constant of .41 (HP from Airflow) for an optimum tuned motor, I'll go for a theoretical constant of .35 because I'm still at standard compression. Maximum lift is .555 which means the flow is 168cfm (171 @ 600, as I posted, represents theoretical flow\lift),
168cfm X .35 = 58.8 HP per cylinder, or 117.6 HP at the crankshaft.
For RWHP let's take away 15%, ie, 17.64 HP.
117.6 - 17.64 = 99.96 RWHP !
Well, my motor dynoed at 100.5 RWHP, but no doubt I could change the constants to get a higher crank HP, and then you'd be right Frank, but it's my motor and I ride it and I know how much power my motor is putting out, and it's not enough, but that's by my standards, not yours !
But hey, listening to some of the wimps on this board, quite frankly, I think it would scare them shitless if they were to ride it!
Rocket in England |
Frank Ammerman (Torqd)
| | Posted on Friday, October 27, 2000 - 11:27 pm: |
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Rocket
not trying to scrap with you..I am a big friend of the Nallins and when you come shouting "We beat you" I got a litle playful. Both your numbers and your friends times are great..3 cheers to ya.
Nallins did 10.41 with no porting or machine work....then the same exact motor went 9.8 wih nitrous..but yes they get to run wheelie bars.
Both your #'s over there and the Nallins are great but I don't think that your buddy is the fasted street legal buell around...that is all I am saying
A few other things though...
my motor made 103 with a bent valve, no ring seal, and stock bottom end, and heads that flow 156-117@10in.
You have better cams, balanced bottom end with scraper, and better flowin heads(and I am pretty sure that those # are at 12.. I would really like you to check) and yet you make less power. Things aren't adding up...and that is with "The Man" putting it together for you.
Heck I put mine together in the driveway.
And yes most people don't know what it is like to ride 100hp buell.
IT ROCKS!
I will post my latest numbers from the 88ci tomorrow...I am going to dyno in the morning to get some beginning numbers.....hopin to get 105hp and 95-100ft/lbs....my motor is really under cammed right now we will see |
BigHairyRalph (Ralph)
| | Posted on Friday, October 27, 2000 - 11:29 pm: |
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Rocket, the LSR attempt was sponsored by this board. Many people here had a personal stake in what happend. After months of build up, the succesful runs had a lot of meaning.
On the other hand "See here Yanks, we beat yer •••" is not likely to get a bunch of back patting. |
Sean Pepper (Rocketman)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 07:34 am: |
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Frank Torques too much, and the Large Woolyback Beast
Rocket said last Sunday...................
"Oh, and by the way, today Nallin's record was beaten ! Here's the timecard"
No shouting or bragging, just stating a fact, right !
Mr Nallin (lightweight dragrace pro that he is) posted 10.44. Sure, he may have gone faster, unofficially, but then again, so might we. The argument is hardly worthwhile, the timecard says it all. But, I know you'll have to come back and defend your point of view and no doubt because you have wheelie bars and we don't, you'll say something like, "ah, but you got 1425 against our 1200 and you flowed the heads and we didn't". But Frank, our rider is a total ameteur, but for last season on his own S1 street bike, but then again, he wasn't riding, it was Duncan who set the "record" time and he's the mechanic and has only ridden the bike for a handful of runs all season and he ways 200lb's.
See, I\we could go on and on and not agree, but at the end of the day, our "record" will stand until someone else beats it, and you know what, that could well be ourselves that do !
MORE ROCKET POWER
Well Frank, not only do you seem to be bullish towards the "record" time, you also persist in telling me my motor is down on power. I cannot understand why you think this. Please explain.
The math I do, add up ! The times I run, given my weight, I think are excellent. The times that others have run, given their weight, I think are brilliant. I'd like to think that a "10" is achievable because Duncan ran the 11.25 on his first attempt. I'm sure he can do better and I'm certain a 120lb rider would do better still.
Anyway, here's some more sums for ya to peruse over. Please make of it what you will, as I'm sure you'll know better !
At 12" of water Rocket's head would now flow 184cfm. Same constant as before, that would give 128.8 crank HP
15% off is 19.32 HP which gives us 109.48 RWHP
Now, that figure does not correspond with the dyno result, and I am certain I don't have that much RWHP, and I'm sure you must agree ! However, if I was making so much crank HP, according to what you think the flowbench pressure is, then you'd be right, I'm loosing a bucket load of power, but you and I know that isn't possible, don't we ?
My sums add up Frank, yours don't ! But, when it comes to listening to the American dyno figures, us Brit's are known to take 'em with a "pinch of salt" as we know some of you Yank's like to exaggerate, don't you ? :x)
Built in the backyard, indeed Frank. Jeez, I nearly passed me fags !
Rocket in England |
Sean Pepper (Rocketman)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 07:52 am: |
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Damn those Brit's ! They're complete cheats !
Rocket in England |
Sean Pepper (Rocketman)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 07:57 am: |
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Frank, can you still put your money where your mouth is and tell me where those many faster Buell's are ?
PLEASE 
Rocket in England |
Dave Tripp (Tripper)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 10:49 am: |
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These are METRIC times aren't they? We can't convert to American time. |
BigHairyRalph (Ralph)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 11:07 am: |
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Good lord Rocket, I'd like to see you compare apples and oranges. Oh, that's right, why would you? They're the same thing in Blighty. |
mikej (Mikej)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 11:41 am: |
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You guys must not be awake yet, me thinks ol'rocker be pullin' your legs a bit. Here, let me give you a Rocketized upload. And Sir Rocket, if I misconstrued what I believe I detected then I'll apologize and clean my glasses and wash my eyes to gain a better focus. But one posting followed by one specific comment you made causes me to believe you got one over.
Note: The posted image has been modified to make a suspicious point. Even though there is no doubt that some of the previously posted time slips have been accurately recorded and accurately posted, there is at the same time some suspicions that a few numbers on at least one (or more) of said time slips may have been slightly exagerated to better elicite a proper response from the less well versed in the venue of bench racing and humourous braggish exageration. Nothing posted here is meant as an insult nor a condemnation, simply as a Saturday morning prank on a day too close to the sometimes prankish Halloween time frame. Party on dudes. |
Sean Pepper (Rocketman)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 12:39 pm: |
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Mike JJJJJJJ
Now, as far as I can tell, you represent everything that is wholesome where America is concerned !
For those of you that don't have the benefit of Mike's spectacles, or his sense of humour, or his coffee, the one on the right in Da Tripper's post, is a fake !
Now, I can't speak for Mike, but I don't remember seeing him at Elvington because my time machine only go's backwards, and in any case, I would have recognised him if he were on B42, ah, but that's not until Tuesday !
Confused ?
Rocket in England |
Frank Ammerman (Torqd)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 01:10 pm: |
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Rocket
Did I understand you saying that my bikes #'s don't add up...that I really don't have these numbers.(I hope you aren't!)
Well as promised here is my 74ci and my new 560mi 88ci motor dyno comp. All accessories are the same(cams carb exhaust etc.) The only diff is disp. and a little less comp on the big bore (only 10.25).
results:103hp and 100ft/lbs
Same peak hp earlier and much more tq
My bike is now way undercammed. I am going with new cams shortly to feed this thing and then we will see what it can really do.
 |
mikej (Mikej)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 01:38 pm: |
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Well Rocket, I was referring to your post of 7:52am. And do you mean to tell me you missed my run? Too bad, hit all 5 gears, kept the front wheel lofted until 5 meters before the finish line, then did a right proper stoppie clear to the end of the turn around.
Hmmm, wait a minute, I did sleep in this morning, I did eat too much candy and drank too much coffee yesterday, could it have been a dream? I guess I'll have to make up a sitting of Welsh Rarebit and see if I can get a better time tonight.
For those confused, Welsh Rarebit, or Welsh Rabbit, is believed to cause excessive dreaming.
Oh well, gotta go pedal a trailer if I can. Been fun, see ya. |
Jerome Chappellaz (Jerome)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 02:54 pm: |
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Rocket and Frank : with all the respect that I have for you guys, your discussion makes me think of two kids on the back of the school-yard, each one trying to •••• further than the other. :-)
Dynometers are THAT precise tools allowing FOR SURE to say that one's bike tested on a given dyno makes 1.5 RWHP extra compared to another one's bike tested on another dyno ???!!! Wow...
OK, in order to prepare the next brick thrown by Rocket, here's a competitor for both of you : Thomas Voll, big boss of R&R Customizing in Germany. His Buell shown below is said to produce 109 (one hundred and NINE) REAR WHEEL horsepower... He spent about 30 thousand bucks in it... Isn't it a nice street-fighter ?!:-)
 |
Jerome Chappellaz (Jerome)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 03:10 pm: |
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And as you can see on the next picture, he has an O2 sensor in his front header, coupled to an air/fuel ratio gauge... :-))) THAT makes the difference... ;:) Or maybe it is an exhaust temperature sensor... Hmmm, I may try this soon...
 |
Jerome Chappellaz (Jerome)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 03:22 pm: |
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The next one, also built by Thomas Voll of R&R Customizing, only makes 103 RWHP... Rocket and Frank, you should go visit this guy and check the calibration of his dynometer. :-)
By the way, these pictures are taken from his web site : http://www.r-r-customizing.de
This X1 has the Big Airblow air cleaner sold by Thomas. The one which fits now my Cyclone. |
Dave Tripp (Tripper)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 04:27 pm: |
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I have this to say about that red one, and I stole this from MTCKid: NOW THAT'S A BUELL!!!
Except for that nickel plated frame. Seems kinda pansy to me. Cheers! |
mikej (Mikej)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 04:38 pm: |
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What's that thing in the red one's air filter cover that looks like a gun barrel? |
FrankO (Fpostow97s3)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 05:39 pm: |
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My dyno run from today is as follows:
97s3
Tstorm heads
SE single fire ignition and coil
K&N filter and gutted box
45 slow, 195 main
thunderslide
98 exhaust header
Borla CF muff
 |
dave sonstein (Cyclown)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 05:39 pm: |
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MIKEJ ---- That tube looking thing is a ram air pressure sensor which sends a signal for fuel mixture compensation. (Just a wild guess from a jet aircraft tech, you see, I'm bored!).
YOROCKET---That B-42 time slip must have come from Al-gore's personal file...more flip flops than a Democrats promise. You really own a BUELL BLAST, don't you? (not that there's anything wrong with that). How about re-posting that cool picture of you going the wrong way down the dragstrip!!!!
Your too much dude!! But definately good entertainment!
cyclown dave |
Koen van der Linden (Grizz)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 07:59 pm: |
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Jerome,
Sorry mate, a little correction...the German X1 has 107 HP an 137 NM Torq, both at the rear wheel.
It has a RRCC9999 carb kit (Mikuni HSR42)and is for sale, about 30.000 DM.
have a nice fight about this guys...
Grizzly "may the BUELL be with you"
'00 X1 |
John Sachs (Johnsachs)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 09:29 pm: |
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Rocket,
Being that Branch and O'brien have worked together for years,and knowing that Jerry Branch flows his heads at 12" of water,I would assume your figures are at 12" also.I've been doing heads for over 30 years,and I would say that you won't reach 171 ft.@10" if you left the valve out of the port on a Harley Davidson casting.
P.S. the conversion factor from 12" to 10" is.913 |
Jack G. Van Voast (Jvv)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 09:49 pm: |
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95" S&S.....45 mikuni....536 cam.........Buell race air cleaner and exhaust system....spike ignition........
ROCKET......belated congrats on the 10:41......that's a great et.....
Frank.........got to get the dual carb set up we saw at the homecomming........the guy said to call him when winter sets in....... as he has to take the bike apart to make some casting molds for the manifolds.....
Ride safe .....Jack |
John Sachs (Johnsachs)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 10:30 pm: |
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1996 Buell S-2
Jim Dye, owner
1200 c.c. Buell engine
Bottom end and cams stock
Top end by John Sachs, Sachs Race Bikes
Aerocharger mods by Sachs Race Bikes
This 4th gear pull represents 14 lbs. of boost max. |
Sean Pepper (Rocketman)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 11:14 pm: |
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What the f**k is this ?
I posted a dyno chart, answered a question on airflow and I get sucked into some kind of vortex that suggest's it's open season on Rocket's power delivery !
Frank, you talk to much that you forget what you said. You were saying, in your opinion, my motor is not producing enough power and something didn't add up ! At no time have I been talking about your motor.
Do the math, read the dyno chart, and then come back like I asked you too, and explain why you think MY motor is not producing the power you think it should be.
And don't forget to post those MANY FASTER BUELL'S you mentioned earlier !
MikeJJJJJ, you're on the money, as per usual :~)
Jerome, in answer to your S1 question, NO !
The paint and graphics are boring and all the shiny stuff is, well, too shiny ! There's no contrast to show off the gorgeous curves and the definition of many individual parts, is hidden. The red touches on the shock spring and the brake rotors, reminds me of the 17 year old kid who gets his first car, fits alloy wheels, and paints his brake calipers RED
The X1 is great !
JohnSax, I'm well aware of Jerry Branch and Dick O'Briens relations, how come I've never heard of you ? Jeez, and I thought head porting was a black art kept secret from one another !
Anyway, I'll bow to your 30 years experience, but firstly, please give me the benefit of your wisdom.
I don't lift to .600 only .555 so I estimate the flow to be at 168cfm and not 171cfm. If you'd have read my previous post's correctly, you'd have realised this, but however, we'll do it your way using your conversion which means I've now got
153.384 cfm @ .555 lift = 53.68 HP per cylinder.
Or, 107.36 HP at the crankshaft, less 15% for RWHP
15% = 16.10 HP which leaves a total of 91.26 RWHP
91.26 RWHP. You think that's realistic do you ?
Well, 30 years didn't teach you much did it John, except how to make a fool of yourself ! That's why I didn't get you to flow my heads !
Anyway, I certainly didn't post my dyno chart for any other reason than to feed the board with information that some of the board members may find usefull.
You know, some of you guys should show a little more respect. I'd not come here and doubt what anyone told me about their Buell's. I'd trust you to tell me the truth and likewise, so should you !
The Clown. I'm not entirely convinced you're as stupid as you sound, but just incase you are, Avon Park is a premier drag strip in the UK, and because of its grandstand viewing, the public are able to see the "christmas tree" clearly, so the tree has a duplicate set of lights on the back side, so the spectator can see them as well as the competitor.
Here's another view................
Rocket in England,.......... with 91.26 RWHP and O'Brien poorly flowed heads !
ps. If this post offends some folks, that's because it's meant too ! I don't object to a good argument, but I don't post here so's I can be brought to question over the information I post here for your perusal. If you don't think I'm telling you the truth, f**k you ! If you think I'm a poor mathematician, show me why. If you think I'm wrong, fair do's, show me why. But if you've nothing better to do than try to discredit or make a fool of me, then f**k you !
Yeah, of recent, some of you have f**ked me off, just incase you can't tell ! |
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