| Author | Message | ||
     Kinger |
2000 S3 approx. 25,000 miles. CEL came on towards the end of a ride on Sunday. At the last stop before home, the bike started hard. Slow turnover, but did start. Checked codes when I got home and got code 16, low battery voltage. Tightened battery connections and put it on the tender overnight Mon. Started hard this morning, and the CEL came on on my way to work. After 2 hours at work it would turnover. Put it on a battery charger most of the day, and it fired right up. No CEL on the way home. I ran through the archives and walked through the battery tests. Battery: Bike off - 12.1 V (not fully charged) Bike on - 11.04 and dropping as it runs Stator: Continuity - no reading or 1 Resistance - 0.9 The manual says that the stator is bad is the resistance is lower than 0.2 to 0.4. It says nothing about higher. So is my stator bad, or do I have another problem? If it is the stator, any aftermarket options? Thanks | ||
| Bad_karma |
Aaron If you are reading across the two female pins and get infinity that would indicate an open. First check and make sure that the tie rap that you cut off this connector hasn't cut through one of the wires on the back side of the plug. The battery should read about 12.7 to 12.9 with the bike off. With the bike idling it should increase some. Mine runs right around 14.1 at 2500 rpm. Could be stator or voltage regulator. Check the S1 manual here in BADWEB. From page 7-28 "Step 1. c. Run the engine at 2000 RPM. The AC output should be at 38-52 volts AC. 2. a. If the output is below specification, charging problems could be a faulty rotor or stator. 2. b. If output is good, charging problem might be faulty regulator/rectifier. Replace as required." Hope this helps, let us know what you find. Joe (Message edited by bad_karma on May 07, 2008) | ||
| Kinger |
Joe, The resistance reading of 0.9 ohms, was across the two female pins. Running that engine at 2000 rpm gave me no reading across the stator. I will have to read the manual and see if there is a check for the rotor. Thanks | ||
| Kinger |
reading across the two female pins and get infinity that would indicate an open. This give me 0.9. Well above the .2-.4 range in the manual. No wires are cut. The battery should read about 12.7 to 12.9 with the bike off. With the bike idling it should increase some. With the bike idling (high beam on) the voltage drops a little every 20-30 seconds. Bike off, battery reads 12.1, but is not fully charged. Testing either female pin to ground gives me an overload on my meter. Is this infinity? AC output check should be between 38 and 52VAC. Mine is 1 VAC. 2a. If output is below spec. charging could be faulty rotor or stator. The manual doesn't tell me how to check the rotor. Any ideas? (Message edited by Kinger on May 07, 2008) | ||
| Bad_karma |
Aaron the rotor has magnets glued to it. You will have to remove to fix the stator. More than likely the cause is the stator. Joe Stator behind silver disc on left of chain drive, also note the silver plate just above the chain and the black wire and plug  This is the stator and a better shot of the wire, retaining plate and case seal(plug)  | ||
| Kinger |
Thanks for the pictures. The manual reads like I need to pull the clutch. Do you need the tool to do that or can it be done without it? Parts list: Primary gasket Stator ???? Thanks for the help!  | ||
| Reepicheep |
Kinger.... First with the reading you have... fractions of an ohm are basically the resistance of wire, and many meters struggle to read accurately that low. So I think your ".9 versus .2" is not necessarily an issue by itself, particularly if you are using a cheaper meter with thinner wires. You want to measure Ohms (resistance) between the two pins, which you clearly did, and they sound OK. You also want to measure resistance between each pin and ground, and it sounds like you did, and you got infinity (which is what you want for a good stator). Up to that point, your stator sounded OK. Then you measured battery voltage, which started low and kept dropping. What was the Volts DC across the battery when the bike was running? If it did not go up from what the voltage is with the bike off, thats a critical bit of information. Ah... I am working through your post going forward... so you measured the stator output with the bike running, with your meter on volts AC (not volts DC), and got 1 volt? Well, if you measured it right and thats what it was, you have a dead stator or broken stator wire somewhere. If you had a rotor problem, you would probably know as you would be blending steel magnets in your transmission. Thats a hard thing to miss. To pull the stator, you take the crank nut and transmission output nut (both big, one turns backwards) off, then take the clutch assembly, primary chain, and stator bell all off together as a unit. You don't dismantle the clutch, you just pull it off as an assembled unit. No special tools (aside from big freaking sockets) required... you also need a locking bar, a 5 inch scrap of aluminum is easy to trim to wedge in there. I just used some aluminum U channel smashed flat and trimmed to "that looks about right". If you have the new style (or old James) metal primary gasket, they can be reused. The old paper ones don't even hold the first time more often then not, much less the second use. Joe is giving perfect advice... you are on the right track. | ||
| Kinger |
Thanks Reep for confirming Joe's analysis. The meter is a cheaper one, I think, a Westek 10XL. The local dealer has a stator in stock and is holding it for me. $119  I have an extra paper gasket for the primary so I will use that. I can also get a piece of aluminum from the sheet metal shop at work.  The upside, this give me an excuse to build a little bike stand that I wanted too anyway, and to install the Wileyco that I bought last fall! | ||
| Bad_karma |
Aaron Now that you have a handle on that problem. I would recommend ensuring you have the upgraded primary chain tensioner, Remove the spring plate assembly out of the clutch and replace with the appropriate number of plate and fibers, I believe one plate two fibers and get the new style shifter pawl. Maybe some one can think of anything that I have forgotten. Thanks Reepicheep for the QA. Good luck Joe Just a quick question, what oil are you running in the primary? (Message edited by bad_karma on May 09, 2008) | ||
| Kinger |
Joe, I updated the primary chain tensioner 2 years ago. Can you point me in the right direction for the other fixes? Probably won't have time to get the parts and do them now. I leave for trip next Friday.  The start of my project: My $35 bike table and $35 HF wheel chock.... http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/amking75/IMG_5711.jpg Seems to work pretty. It "should" be a 2 man job to get the bike up there. It WILL be a 2 man job to get it down. I got the idea from here: http://webusers.warwick.net/~u1002217/Bike%20Stand .htm (Message edited by kinger on May 09, 2008) | ||
| Kinger |
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| Kinger |
Just a quick question, what oil are you running in the primary? Mobile 1 gear oil. | ||
| Bad_karma |
Aaron Glad to hear that you got the primary shoe replaced. The pawl (in my second picture it is the funny shaped star like item with the small hole in it)is not necessary just nice because it is behind the clutch basket. The spring plate is an Assembly that is located in the clutch that will fail eventually making a disaster of your clutch and other items in your primary/tranny. Let us know how it goes and pictures from the trip. Joe (Message edited by Bad_karma on May 10, 2008) | ||
| Kinger |
I got this far tonight:  From here, I need to loosen the large nut on the left, then pull the whole assembly off together? I have bent a couple of locking bars. Can someone post a picture of theres? I can't seem to make one strong enough. Thanks for the help. | ||
| Finnman |
I would recommend referring to a manual for the exact steps, but here's a few items that may help. I use a piece of aluminum stock I bought at Lowes that is 1 1/2" wide by 1/8" thick and cut down to about 4 1/4" long. It holds fine and doesn't have any real chance to damage teeth since it's aluminum. The crank nut (on the left per your photo -right-hand thread) is torqued to approx 200 ft/lbs (refer to a manual to verify for your application). It's a bear with hand tools. I've had my rotor off about 4X and have not broken anything using an impact wrench set very, very low. It takes a couple minutes to turn the nut off - you'll notice a note etched in the rotor stating...no dead blows, but sometimes you have to take a risk. To remove the clutch basket, you'll first need lock ring pliers to remove the threaded shaft & disk from the clutch basket to expose the nut (approx 70 ft/lbs) and spring washer. The clutch basket nut has a left-hand thread. Once you have both nuts removed, you can work the rotor and clutch basket off. The rotor has the magnets attached and wants to stay put due to the magnetic field. The chain will flex only so much laterally. If you haven't bought one, I strongly urge you to replace the crank nut ($2.50-$3.00) any time you pull the primary sprocket/rotor off. Make sure you clean off any left over Loctite from the crank threads. DO NOT forget to apply Loctite to the crank threads before installing. As far as the clutch basket nut and spring washer ($12.00-$15.00), you may want to consider it, but I don't feel it's as critical as the crank nut. Hope this helps.  | ||
| Kinger |
Finman, Thanks for the tips. The AL stock I was using was bent from a sheet. I picked up some 1/8" thick flat stock today, and a pair of lock ring pliers. I will check on the availability of the crank nut and the other parts you suggested. Looks like I may need a piece of pipe to get the leverage for the crank nut... Thanks | ||
| Kinger |
I got everything off last night and the new stator installed. The manual calls for replacing the bolts that hold the stator. Is this critical? The dealership is open today, so I will call for replacements. You would think that the bolts would come with the stator if they need to be replaced. Thanks again. | ||
| Kinger |
Thanks for everyones help! I got everything back together on Monday night the 12th. Work and other stuff got in the way, so the test ride was a 10 minute deal last Thursday night. I left for a weekend trip on Friday a.m. | ||
| Kinger |
Bike died again with a charging problem this weekend.  Readings are as follows: Pins to ground: Infin Pin to pin: Infin It looks like I toasted another stator in just 3,000 miles........... Reviewing the above posts, I think I will check my regulator/rectifier before I start the tear down..... Anyone else have multiple stator failures running Mobile 1 gear oil? (Message edited by kinger on September 17, 2008) (Message edited by kinger on September 17, 2008) (Message edited by kinger on September 17, 2008) | ||
| Rsh |
Yes a number of people have had stator issue's using Mobil 1 75W-90 gear oil, Including myself. Do not use it, it has additives that cause the stator to short out. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I dont think people ever lost them that quickly. Maybe you nicked it putting it in, or have a loose magnet. Definitely should check both the battery and the regulator. | ||
| Kinger |
Yes a number of people have had stator issue's using Mobil 1 75W-90 gear oil, Including myself. Do not use it, it has additives that cause the stator to short out. What gear oil are you currently using? I dont think people ever lost them that quickly. Maybe you nicked it putting it in, or have a loose magnet. Definitely should check both the battery and the regulator. I will check for nicks when I take it out. I will also check the rotor and the regulator. The battery is brand new as of last Saturday. | ||
| Rsh |
Just as Reepicheep has said, stator failure using Mobil 1 gear oil is not as quick as what you have experienced. Having a stator go at 3000 mile's something else is going on. I use Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 now. |
