| Author | Message | ||
     M2rider35 |
Anyone out there ever replaced the stock clutch cable with an aftermarket one. Drag specialties makes one and it is not the exact match for a stock Buell one. The reason I ask is that I had to replace the stock one in a pinch with the drag specialties one and have had alot of problems getting the adjustment to stay right. I run the 1/4 mile with my bike and would understand the clutch going out, but the fluid is not burnt and it will hook up and launch some of the time. If anyone has any ideas on this please reply. Thanks, Bob | ||
| Blake |
Bob, You might want to inspect your primary chain tensioner shoe and its steel support. Late in the 2001 model year, the factory switched to a beefier version. Some of the earlier ones suffer failure and the resulting pieces can cause unwelcome symptoms. | ||
| M2rider35 |
Thanks Blake but I think that the aftermarket cable from Barnett was the problem. I replaced the cable with the stock cable and the symptoms stopped. Talked to a guy who has alot of experience with the Harleys and he says that something in the way the casing is designed on a barnett cable is the problem. I would only rule out the shoe on the adjuster because I have had my case off several times experimenting with a smaller compensating sprocket, and I try and inspect things good after every time. Thanks again! Bob | ||
| Blake |
That's good info to know. Stay away from the Barnett cable. Thanks. | ||
| Empire |
Need some help. I have a 2001 S3 with 23,000 on it. Used to be able get the back tire smoking at the race track before the run but all the sudden nothing. Just seems to eat up clutches now. Put a new clutch in with Drag specialties parts. Ate that clutch to. Seems like it doesn't have the power to spin the rear wheel. I also have a power commander wondering if that might have messed anything up. Going to try to replace the spring plate with additional friction plates. Any other ideas. | ||
| Blake |
Do you have the race ECM? If so, dump the power commander. It brings nothing to the party if you have a race ECM and properly operating DDFI system. | ||
| Empire |
Blake, I don't have the race ECM just the power commander. Tried playing with the clutch adjustment mechanism last night. If it is too tight will that cause the clutch to engage too slow. It seemed like I had to let the clutch lever out alot before it engaged. Is looser better than tighter on the clutch adjustment mechanism. | ||
| Blake |
Yes, the power commander can mess everything up, easily. See if you can get your bike on a dyno with an O2 sniffer to ascertain air/fuel mixture performance. The clutch cable at the lever bracket should have from 1/16" to 1/8" of free play. Do you have an owner's manual? As far as the PC goes, it can help augment performance for a stock ECM'd bike. But the race ECM is cheaper and fool-proof as long as it is properly calibrated by your dealer for TPS zero. | ||
| Empire |
Blake, Getting the bike dyno'd on TUES. Called Dynojet and they told me might be an air/fuel problem. I still seem to have to let the clutch handle out 3/4 of the way or greater before it engages the clutch. I tried all kinds of cable adjustments. I have the manual and tried the 1/8" to 1/16" adjustment but I had to let the clutch lever out at least 3/4 before it engaged. Played with the clutch adjustment mechanism as well but didn't seem to help. Kinda living with it right now. I even took out the spring plate and added more friction plates. Also seems like after 100 miles I need to loosen the cable again almost like the plates are wearing down and this is a new clutch. Any ideas. | ||
| Aaron |
Empire: the clutch adjustment screw is backed off (clockwise) 1/4 turn from where it contacts, right? Done with full slack in the clutch cable adjuster, right? If the screw adjustment is too tight, you could well have the symptoms you describe. Have you swapped out the spring? Barnett makes a heavy one (too heavy for street use IMO) ... Rivera offers more of an intermediate. I think the one in the SE catalog is an intermediate too. The spring is critical, more critical than the plates in my experience. The stock plates have always worked well for me, I can't say the same about aftermarket plates. | ||
| Blake |
Empire, I don't see anything abnormal with the clutch engaging at the 3/4 out (1/4 in) position. Why do you perceive that a problem? You added more clutch plates?  | ||
| Blake |
I mean as long as you have slack in the cable to achieve at least the 1/16" to 1/8" free play at the lever bracket, you should be fine. | ||
| Aaron |
Blake, you can have a mile of slack in the cable and still have the adjuster screw too tight, causing the clutch to slip and the plates to wear. And that would make the apparent point of clutch engagement move farther out the lever travel. Like I said, it matches the symptoms he's reporting. When that ball and ramp assembly is at it's narrowest position, the screw needs to have some clearance and not be preloading the pressure plate spring any. The reason they tell you to put full slack in the cable before adjusting the screw is to ensure the ball/ramp can move to it's narrowest position. What he's referring to with the extra plate is the Barnett extra plate kit. Th spring plate, in the middle of the clutch pack, is replaced by another disc and a special slightly thinner steel plate. | ||
| Empire |
Aaron, Are you talking about replacing the spring on the locking nut that goes over the adjuster screw or is there another spring I should replace. I followed the manual for the adjustment. Slacked cable all the way, lightly bottomed out clutch adjusment screw and backed off 1/4 turn. Then I put 1/8" to 1/16" at the clutch lever. Should I make sure the ball and ramp are as narrow as possible before adjusting the screw? Are after market plates not worth using? The Harley dealer charges $20 big ones for each friction plate. | ||
| Aaron |
Sounds like you did the clutch adjustment right, it was just a thought. The spring I'm referring to is the big diagphram spring that goes over the pressure plate, the one you have to remove with your compressor tool to change the plates. The pressure of that spring (and hence the difficulty of pulling the lever) has a huge effect on the clutch's holding power, more so than the type of plates you use. One hint here, it's interchangeable with Evo big twin springs. Often you'll see springs advertised for a Big Twin but not a Sporty, but they work fine in our bikes. Springs are available in competition and medium duty configurations. Like I said, I personally find the competition spring a bit much for street use, my hand hurts after awhile. But the medium duty is fine. 'Course, for drag racing, you might want the competition spring. Like I said, i've personally found that stock friction plates work remarkably well. I can't say that for every aftermarket plate I've tried. | ||
| Empire |
Aaron, Thanks, I think I try replacing that diaphragm spring. Never thought about that but it makes complete sense now. Good possibility that is the culprit. | ||
| Blake |
Thanks for the explanation. Can you tell I've never had to perform the clutch adjustment?  | ||
| Empire |
Aaron, Thanks for the help. I put the new medium duty clutch diaphragm spring in from Dennis Kirk. Worked like a charm. No more slipping and the clutch bites awesome now . Much better than the stock spring. | ||
| Redstripe |
Guys, I'm facing difficulties with the clutch-I think. Every now-and-then, while opening up the gas, the clutch seems to slip and suddenly grab with a "bang"? This seems to happen more while the engine is still cold. Strange thing is, while the bike's in top and opening up, it seems to perform just fine!? No slipping of the clutch whatsoever; one would think if the plates were knackered it would surely give way under any such harsh conditions? I noticed this feat on the bike before, yet accounted this to the slipping of the front-pulley-as I later found out the nut loosened itself from the retension-plate and the pulley came loose. Have replaced that and fitted the nut with a Jims' Mega, so should be allright. The splines weren't damaged at all? I'll have to be honest though, and say I'm sporting Red-Lines shockproof in the primary. Have heard of problems with the "shockproof-particles" in this type of transmission fluid, though nothing with the clutch? Would appreciate any input, Jilles. | ||
| Reepicheep |
It's probably the dogs on a particular gear. My M2 does the same thing. Aaron identified and pointed out the problem, look here Worth checking the other obvious stuff, primary chain tension, belt tension, shifter linkage, detent plate position... but I bet you have the same issue I do. Mine seems to happen mostly in 2nd gear. I *think* I have felt it in third, but since starting to pay attention to when it happens, I have not actually had a confirmed 3rd gear instance, so it could have been a faulty memory. I get into second, fully engage the clutch, jump on the throttle, and "whack". I get a brief but total power loss, followed by an instantaneous full power hit. It will never do it again until I shift again, so it is likely not the clutch but rather the dogs. My only questions is if I should just go ahead and order the shift fork at the same time I order the new second gear, and if I should put in a new third gear while I am in there. A buddy of mine that owns a UJM repair shop said that it is the classic worn dogs scenario, that it is nearly always second gear, and that he typically orders the shift fork at the same time he orders the gears. Of course, you have to split the cases on the UJM's, so you would be likely to replace a lot more while you have it apart just in case. Bill "pulling tranny when the snow starts" Kilgallon | ||
| Aaron |
Keep in mind that those pictures of worn dogs are on 2 different gears (notice how the top gear has a splined center and a slot for the shift fork). Those sets of dogs engage with each other on the shift. You need to replace both gears to properly fix the problem. I went ahead and bought both gears, as well as the shift fork, before I even opened up the gearbox. The shop manual has a pretty good description of the tranny including power flow diagrams, it's not difficult to figure out which two gears it has to be and which shift fork slides'em together on the troublesome shift. Also get a new clip for retaining the detent plate, a new shifter shaft seal, and a new primary cover gasket. It's a good time to slide in a Baker smooth shift kit if you're so inclined, too. | ||
| Redstripe |
sigh....... There goes the tuning plans... | ||
| Peter |
....or better still, go crazy and splurge on a six speed PPiA | ||
| Redstripe |
Hey Pete, Nope, the five speed still does it for me. But then I still sport the Euro-spec pulleys, reducing revs on the highway. Hope to have the bike upgraded end December, beginning of January. Marcel's still waiting for a customer to contact him on dynoing some Screaming Eagle cams he slotted in his x1. Then we'll be able to know if that's the way to go with my x1, because of the injection. Apparently just flowing and porting the heads makes little sense with the "standard" setting I wish to maintain because of reliability. Upping the capacity is a difinite "no". 1250 won't do too much, and 1450 or 1600 cc's, besides being too expensive to my taste, certainly won't up the antes in the reliability compartement considering the mileage I make on the bike. We discussed working over the heads mildly, bringing the compression to standard -apparently it varies quite a lot-, squish, and then bolting in the aforementioned cams by Screamin' Eagle. All this has to be "dialled in" accordingly on the dyno, off course. I thought the cams as used in the x1 were the "fastest" cams made by them, but apparently there are faster race-cams adding more while maintaining low down grunt? We'll wait and see. As You know, I had bit of a weak moment with the bike 'bout two months ago, yet after having a look around and riding without too much problems lately -not riding much anyway, I must admit-, I fell in love with it again. And off course knowing what cultural heritage the bike comes with... Droooolll.  | ||
| Srl |
I have resealed the cable and that worked for a while but now the leak is back, do I have to get a new cable to solve this problem? Why is it so common for these cables to leak and will the new one leak in another 5K miles? Thanks! | ||
| Blake |
It's not common. You must discern where the leak is occurring and what exactly is causing it. Just throwing new parts at it may not pay off. | ||
| Srl |
Thanks for the response! I believe it's the cable case to end connector leaking because I put a seal (o-ring and rtv) at the case where it enters, and shrink wrapped the cable from the connector running out about 8 inches. The shrink wrap stays dry but the cable is wet at the end of the 8 inches so somewhere it is getting out to the shrink wrap. It appears to be getting worse (although I have switched the bodywork from red to white so it may just show up more now) I assumed it was common because I've seen several discussions on it here and I see many greasey chin fairings at the events. Any thoughts for repair or extending the life of the new part if required? | ||
| Monsta |
Yeah, I have the same problem, just started today, so i figured I would tighten it, well the damn thing broke, so how I have to fish the broke part out and get a new cable, anyone know what a new cable costs?? Jesse | ||
| Blastin |
Anybody have any tips on adjusting the clutch?? By the manual it appears to be pretty straight forward, but you never know. See if you guys can help me figure this one out. Last Sunday the tranny started feeling a bit weird. Starting off from a stop sign I would accelrate the bike at a normal rate and just as I finished letting out the clutch, there would be a secondary clunk, like I had shifted again even though I had not. It occured once and I let it go. A few times after that while downshifting through the gears to a stop I would get caught between in "limbo land" between second and first. The shift lever would become hard and I would have to rev the bike and let the clutch back out to sort of "lunge" the bike to get first gear. The neutral light is also intermitent. I can get it in neutral the light is just intermintent. I took the bike out for a test ride today and the secondary "clunk" from start is still there. Also the bike sometimes will not idle in nuetral and just dies. If I play with the clucth and shift lever I can get it to stay idling. So I'm thinking my clutch is out of Whack. I did adust my primary chain tonight. Tighted to 24 In-LB of torque and then backed of the 4 1/2 flats + 3 1/2 flats. Test rode and the secondary "clunk" is still there. Neutral light is still intermittent. I did not have any problems getting the bike to idle in nuetral. I also have not been able to detect any other problems in any other gears besides the 1st to neutral to 2nd and the 2nd to neutral to 1st. So my diagnosis is the clutch is out of adjustment and dragging? Any other guesses to the problem? Jerry P.S. The Primary Chain Adjustment Bolt/Screw is 19mm, to the best of my knowledge, for future reference. | ||
| Noface |
Can anyone tell me if the XB clutch parts are typical Buell/Sportster bits (plates and springs) or do the XB bikes have different part #'s? Seems I read where the gearbox on the new bikes share the same gearbox components with the older bikes. And while we're at it. I understand the stock clutch plates to be comparable to the aftermarket as far as reliability and performance, but has anyone here tried the Barnett carbon fiber disc's? I can imagine that those are pretty pricey, as I can't find a web source that publishes a price for those. One more thing. Is it generally accepted that you replace the friction plates as well when installing new fiber plates? As you can tell, I've never done a clutch r/r on one of these bikes, but I'll soon learn. Thanks and best regards, Jody S. |
