| Author | Message | ||
     Ccryder |
Can't you just FEEL the LOVE in the air  . Anyway, I really appreciate the collective wisdom. This is what's called "brain storming" (how appropriate for "Bad Weather"....) Pammy your ear for exhausts is uncanny, there is a force in this household, but it's on Mark's S1. You and I did talk about his exhaust the other day so I might have mis-lead you. Passion is running a race kit header with a Supertrap with about 25 discs. The rear head tried to spit out a valve guide. All valves had plenty of trash trapped along their sealing surfaces. There was crumbs of aluminum in the intake manifold. Al said there was a lot of piston debris and parts of rings in the cases. This engine had about 27,000 miles, in total. (Hey Torq'd, chim in any time with some background info) Jprovo: Tuesday  Now for the picts you all wanted soooo badly:     Cylinders are hard to shoot! So tell me......... Neil S. | ||
| Blake |
James, My bad, I was wrong about the debris. Sorry for being such a jerk. Neil, Thanks for clarifying that. | ||
| Jprovo |
Blake, Not a big deal, I've read enough of your posts to know that you sometimes "sound" harsher than you mean to, and I also know that I'm likely to be shown the ropes a few (many) times until people start to recognize me (respect is earned, not given). Neil, 27,000 miles, man I feel for you, that sucks. I hope that you have another two wheeled conveyance to keep you in the wind while Passion gets her heart and lungs rebuilt. I not, a $500 CX500 keeps the sanity, and is deplorable enough to make you feel like you are not cheating! (plus, it's still a pushrod V-twin!) If I was superstitious, that'd be enough to keep me from riding on Tuesdays!!! (for at least a week  ) James BTW, is there a way to check if the ignition sensor still works (curious)? What temperature is that potting rated for anyway? | ||
| Ccryder |
The sensor did not work after the meltdown. I tried a new one and it worked. Neil S. | ||
| Rocketman |
How would debris from the rear cylinder get into the front cylinder? I believe this question was directed at me. Apologies please or I send in the SAS you big Texan bastard. As for you so called experts who are only to happy to kiss one anothers butts in an effort to stay politically correct, are you not engineers? This stuff should be second nature to you lot? No brain surgery needed here. We're not talking Apollo 13 for fuck sake. This is a pissy little Buell motor running some short skirted pistons in a shitty stock cylinder or two. Well bollocks to you experts here's what happened and I'm right because I say so. The rear piston overheated because it was sick of slogging itself up and down inside a poor quality hole. Detonation which clearly only occured in the rear cylinder was caused by the increased piston temp thus the process is concentrated from the squish area and moving toward the centre of the crown. If this problem was caused by an ignition fault the detonation would be in the centre of the crown and I'd want to see a hole in that piston. So there you have it. Conclusive and expert analogy from the worlds finest Buell expert. Now fuck off I've a living to earn. Gone soft? Like fuck. Rocket  | ||
| Blake |
Yep, he's gone soft; what a limp rebuttal. Tsk-tsk. | ||
| Peter |
Rocket, What caused this?  | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
"Detonation" caused by excessive localised heat usually starts from an edge, or other sharp thin section, corner etc. Logically, an edge or other thin section, corner etc, would tend to run hotter than the main bulk material but the ultimate temp will be controlled due to the natural conduction of heat from a (hotter) edge to a (cooler) sink. If the rate of localised heating exceeds the rate of heat flowing to the sink (bulk of the piston) you get one very hot edge which causes very rapid and uncontrolled burning (a definition of "detonation" (I made this up) might be- "rapid, almost instantaneous burning, almost an explosion but not quite. ) Detonation is very dangerous where ever it occurs. A hole in the centre of the piston will likely be caused by the spark plug electrode being the root cause of the detonation IMO and experience (mainly 2 stroke Yamahas). Detonation could well be what started the edge failure on that piston, but likewise, I wouldn't rule out a crack growing between the root of the piston ring groove and the valve pocket. I presume we are looking at the exhaust valve pocket here and not the (cooler?) inlet? edited by steveshakeshaft on June 25, 2003 edited by steveshakeshaft on June 25, 2003 | ||
| Ccryder |
Hey Sean: Keep it up Mate! There's always more than one story to the tale. Too bad I couldn't stay around at Aaron's last fall and ride with the CO Elves. Anyway I'm trying to make it up this year since I don't have the other half dragging me down. Yesterday it was offical, Neil is single again and responsible for only myself  . Let the Ladies beware, another Buelligan on the streets. Time2Ride. Neil S. | ||
| Phillyblast |
Neil, Been there, done that, the ex got the tee-shirt, too  but at least the cosmos have re-aligned a little - 2 Buelligans off the market, one back on. Sean, >>slogging itself up and down inside a poor quality hole. hehehe no wonder you've gone soft  Seriously, though, I've been getting some intermittent pinging off idle on the S2 since going back to the stock CV - my guess is carbon buildup and I'll try changing the plugs and doing the ol' water in the intake trick tonight, already did the carb tuning from the knowledge vault, running a 45 and a 190 so . . .my question is if it's still pinging after that, is my only option tearing it down before it winds up looking like Passion? And considering Sean's comments about the stock cylinders, should I go ahead and get the 1250 kit if I have to do that? | ||
| Pammy |
Sean, the ring land on the front piston was missing as well and both(front and rear) were off the intake(cool) side. You THINK you are so bad...are you wearing lip-gloss now? Detonation is first suspect when stress-related component failure occurs. A few things that can contribute to this are: too much compression,(most people put more compression in the motor than is necessary)or If it gets the slightest oil leakage into the combustion chamber when the engine is at wide open throttle, detonation will set in and your engine will get hammered(to death) very quickly. Lastly, if the spark was delivered 90 degrees too early, the combustion gases would light off at 120 to 130 degrees before top dead center on the compression stroke. The piston is on it's way up but not past the half way point and it smacks head-on into the expanding combustion process. This gives the piston one hell of a jolt. That is one of the worst forms of detonation. Pete, if that pic was of your turbo bike, why those pistons? Neil I thought you sounded awfully sexy on the phone... | ||
| Pammy |
Philly, find a reputable place and have it properly tuned. We haven't had problems with the stock cylinders. | ||
| Smadd |
I've got the "good" stock cylinders! 47,000 miles on 'em and about 20,000 since the modifications (thanx for the excellent work, Pammy and crew!). Knock on wood!!! A recent leakdown was identical on both cylinders and less than 5%. Not bad for the abuse I show the motor! The cylinder, piston, and valve configuration remain excellent. Neil... good luck with your repairs! Good thing you have another ride. And welcome to the Singles Club!!! Steve | ||
| Peter |
Steve, Inlet, you can see the front head/cylinder in the pic. Pammy, This was without the turbo. I imagine the damage would have been a lot worse, and a lot sooner, if I'd left that on! | ||
| Rocketman |
I dunno Pete, maybe your cylinders are out of round haha? I detect that some foreign body also entered the combustion cycle, surprisingly Blake didn't spot it either, real nasty stuff too, FRENCH AIR. I'm betting that was a plug failure. By the way, I appreciate y'all testing Rocket's powers of observation. Keep 'em coming. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Yep, he's gone soft; what a limp rebuttal. Tsk-tsk. Blake you crack me up. Please don't encourage me otherwise you'll be opening a topic 'Rocket's access has been suspended'  Rocket | ||
| Peter |
Rocket, Not meaning to test your powers of observation. It was a serious question. I've got my own idea of what caused it, but I could be wrong, so as this conversation was heading down that path anyway, I thought I'd get some other ideas. I don't think any foreign bodies got in. I think those marks are just the broken bits of the piston getting moved around in there How do you think a plug failure caused it, or was that said tongue-in-cheek? | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
Peter, OK, inlet valve pocket. ( He pleads... ) Notwithstanding the fact I'm a few thousand miles from that piston, and the fact that putting your neck out so far over the 'net is a sure fire way to get it chopped off.... I'd say the piston edge above failure wasn't detonation. OK, Let the axes fall..... I don't see any burning around the edges of that failure surface. No burning = No detonation. Huh? Regards Steve steve_s@ukbeg.com http://www.ukbeg.com | ||
| Pammy |
Pete, that looks broken(from the picture) like maybe something rocked...that IS the thrust side. Was the valve pocket 'eyebrow' too thin on that side? Those look like Ross pistons. What were the clearances (piston to cyl wall)? Does not look like detonation... edited by pammy on June 25, 2003 | ||
| Blake |
Hey Steve, He's closer than that isn't he? Amsterdam? Would be worth the trip if he'd let you ride it. Peter, Why not put some nice smooth forged flat tops on that beast, leave the turbo installed, and ensure she is tuned slightly fat. Rocket, I doubt it. | ||
| Aaron |
Ross pistons? Blasphemy! (I'll withhold comment since Peter shared more info with me) | ||
| Jim_witt |
My turn, I'll say wrong ring gap, to rich, timing and the wrong plugs. -JW:> | ||
| Noface |
They must be Hurricane's  Man those things have huge valve pockets... Jody S. | ||
| Pammy |
They're JE's? Hmmm well I guess girls don't know EVERYTHING | ||
| Aaron |
I think I'm being baited | ||
| Rocketman |
My apologies Pete, I thought I was being baited. Given that pic shows a lot of camera flash it first appears to look like you had a hot spot right in the centre of the piston hence my plug comment, but it's also noticeable that the debris you assumed caused that speckled effect is heading across the ex pocket and not the il pocket. If that debris is from the broken off piece, assuming the biggest chunk of it is lying on the track in Croix, then it would seem like the piston broke which as you know is a very famous club to be a member of. Closer viewing of that pic, it appears to show just above (in the pic) the inlet pocket a slight rounding, like the valve hit it? Given that's what looks like a clean break and if the piston wasn't a defect then it has to be mechanical. Anymore pic's, all good stuff this topic. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
You THINK you are so bad...are you wearing lip-gloss now? Only when I kiss the guys..................Blue Velvet baby. Should I bring my mask? Rocket | ||
| Peter |
Blake, That's essentially what I had before, although I was using flat top KB pistons in stock cylinders. Different cams and heads though..... Rocket, No problem. I'm not that subtle Here's the underside. R/H is the broken one.  edited by peter on June 26, 2003 | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
Nah....... definitely Wiseco's. Hamsterjam? ages since I was there. You're right, not so far. If I can be of any assistance at all, ping me offline and mail me the bits. Regards Steve http://www.ukbeg.com steve_s@ukbeg.com | ||
| Phillyblast |
Pammy, Thanks, my main concern is carbon buildup, my second is finding a reputable shop around here  , and my third is my own ineptness Just got a little paranoid after seeing those pistons and hearing the word "detonation" |
