| Author | Message | ||
     Dhill8560 |
I have an 04 XB12S, I'm your typical person who likes to ride and do minimal up keep on the bike, I usually get my bike picked up and have it serviced by a dealer, but I've decided to take initiative and service it myself. Now my question is; could anyone suggest an oil filter that can maintain a longer life between changes and if not would someone recommend a quality filter? If you have a product number that would be greatly appreciated Thanks | ||
| Jammaster |
I just changed my oil and filter in my 07XB9R Firebolt and used a Mobil 1 extended performance, high efficiency, high capacity filter, # M1-103. I bought the filter at a local auto parts store. Someone else on here (forgot who or where to find the thread) has a Nissan something that uses the same size filter as the XB's and listed several filters that fit the XB's. I know a lot of people on here are running Mobil 1 oil so I imagine the filter is a quality product as well. And the cool part about it is they are readily available at your local parts store! | ||
| Dhill8560 |
Thanks, I appreciate the input. I actually got back from the parts store and got the filter. Apparently Mobil makes a V-twin synthetic as well. Didn't get it, because it wasn't available, but once it's in I'll be sure to pick some up. Thanks again. | ||
| Rocketman |
The best long life oil filter bar none is the oil filter you change more often. Extended life oils, and oil filters, whilst they do work in the manner they're supposed to, it's a marketing exercise loosely based around making one think the product is of a better quality. It is not. It is just made differently. These oil and filters are a new concept based on more recent designs of engines, such like those offered in VW's where from new purchase you decide from a choice the service intervals that suit you. Longer gaps between servicing is reliant on using the dealer recommended longer life oils etc. The reality is, you pay more money for the oil and filter, but most owners who buy new also have their services done sooner rather than later. The dealer therefore gets a double bite of the cherry. It's worthy of note, Mobil 1 synthetics, if I'm not mistaken have a recommended life upto 20000 miles. Makes you wonder if changing oil at 2500 or 3000 miles, or even 5000 miles is a waste of money. Rocket | ||
| Dhill8560 |
Interesting theory Rocket, you sound very well informed . Thanks for the input, what you wrote makes total sense. Would you recommend or suggest an optimal oil to use, or just stick to what I know? | ||
| Rocketman |
Well for years we've debated between the top handful, but I'm a die hard Mobil 1 believer. By the way, the above is just as you say, a theory. My theory. So please use your own judgements. I personally just don't buy the 'long life' scenario. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Actually I'll add to that. Being a Saab Specialist I don't get too involved in alternative makes on a frequent basis. Obviously my friends and customers don't just run Saabs in their households, and because of such I get asked to look after their other vehicles sometimes. This was the case recently with a one year old Audi I serviced. I came across this 'long life' service interval researching the history of the car, so called up the main agent for clarification as to how this car had left the showroom. It was indeed filled with VW's 'long life' oil as part of their further between services interval package. I stumped up for the VW branded 'long life' oil which cost me around £40 and left no margin for profit from my customer save a quid or two. A week or three later I was servicing another car, I forget what, and in researching the recommended oil for this car I had my motor factors deliver a 5 ltr tub of one of Comma's fully synthetics. On reading the specs printed on the tub to make certain the factors had sent what I needed, I was somewhat surprised to see this oil was recommended for VW's 'long life' service program. This Comma synthetic was under £20. I concluded from this that there's a strong possibility that 'long life' oils recommended by manufacturers are very likely based on using a widely known fully synthetic oil at certain specification and sold by the manufacturers main agents in their own packaging. This isn't some recent practice by motor manufacturers. Comma for example, is said to be re branded Shell. Saab Turbo oil was once upon a time said to be Mobil 1. All manufacturers want to profit from branding their own oil, but the 'long life' service interval is for me marketing hype. Yes you get a better quality oil, but it's sold to us as having a benefit that at the end of the day can be had at more likely half the price by buying branded synthetics in the high street that will have the correct specification for more mileage (note I didn't say 'longer life' coz that's perhaps the marketing words used by motor manufacturers for an otherwise already widely available product). Rocket | ||
| Sloppy |
Filter life is a function of surface area and depth of filtration (hence I don't like screen filters). The greater the surface area, the greater the life. Hence, get the biggest filter with the greatest surface area of filter media you can find. CAUTION: Just because a filter is the right diameter and thread doesn't mean it should be used. You need to look at the bypass pressure filter setting -- too low of a setting will cause CONCENTRATED & UNFILTERED oil to enter your engine. WIX & Purolator has excellent tech. information if you want to look at bypass settings. My recommendation is to buy a quality filter (WIX/NAPA, MOBIL1, ACDELCO) designed for your engine and use quality oils - my preference is Mobil1. If you want to extend your drain intervals to help both your pocketbook and the environment, then purchase an oil analysis kit so you don't have to listen to the "oil rumor club". They'll tell you (with DATA) when it NEEDS to be changed, not when you "think" it needs to be changed... | ||
| Ryker77 |
Testing used oil in VW TDI engines have proven more wear within the first 3k of use than the last 7k - total 10k on oil changes. The oil gurus say that it take some useage to stabilize the additives in synthetic oils. Oil Filters are good for one year or 20-30k miles on a car. If your engine is wearing down soo much that it is filling up an oil filter you have other problems to worry about. | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
For the UK- Esso Petroleum Company owns (100%) the following: Cleveland Petroleum Company Ltd, Comma Oil & Chemicals Ltd, Dart Oil Company Ltd, Redline Oil Services Ltd and Retail Petroleum Services Ltd. Also owns 74.9% of Mode Wheel Property Ltd [56] and 65% of Mainline Pipelines Ltd I've quoted the above from a very reliable source. Given that Esso Petroleum is a wholly owned subsidiary of Exxon Mobil, just how different do you expect your "cheapo" Comma Synth Oil to be compared to your "Mobil 1"? Given also that base oils and additive packages are bought as commodities how different would you expect it to be? Further, given that many brands are packaged on the very same blending plant at the same time in the same batch, but packed with different labels, what difference will there be in the product you buy? Just some interesting thoughts! | ||
| Djkaplan |
It was really tough back in the old days - the early Sportsters didn't even have oil filters! | ||
| Rocketman |
Further, given that many brands are packaged on the very same blending plant at the same time in the same batch, but packed with different labels, what difference will there be in the product you buy? Comma isn't 'cheapo' by price though Steve. At least not in my opinion. Little technical information is available from Comma. At least it appears that way through my local auto parts vendors who stock a wide range of Comma products. I've even called Comma technical recently, requesting spec's on their Dexron III transmission fluid. Their technical expert, yes that's what she called herself, offered very little info other than recommended use \ application. Forget them offering technical data I could actually lay my hands on and read. So for me, Comma it seems is a hyped brand within the motor trade in the UK. That is to say, Comma have saturated the motor trade outlets, presumably by selling at great prices to the trade suppliers, which allows the trade suppliers great profit whilst offering few if any comparable priced oils to choose from. Bottom line. We're all but forced to buy Comma products within the motor trade. With such in mind, I'd have no complaints with that if Comma fully synth was in fact re branded Mobil 1. But it isn't - unless you know different? Rocket | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
Hi Rocket, good insight from the trade POV. No, I cannot say that brand "X" is really the same as brand "Y". What I can say is that there is considerable uncertainty where the base oil and additive package comes from on a batch by batch basis. At the end of the day, motor oils are commodity items that are manufactured to standards. Promotional hype IMO can largely be ignored completely. I'd have no qualms running my motors on Comma oils. Interestingly Mobil do in fact have their own oil blending facility up in Birkenhead on the Wirral. Valvoline are up the road from Mobil as well. Comma's blending plant is in the South East I think. Fuchs Petroleum in Stoke on Trent are possibly Europe's (definately the UK's) biggest supplier of oils packed under anybodies name. I've seen Havoline, Tesco, Silkolene, Century brands all come out of the blendig line on pallets one after the other! | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
Oh, I forgot to say, if you want Technical data on any manufacturers product then I suggest you look no further than the API or SAE standard that the oil is made to. This standard will tell you all you need to know about that oil irrespective of who blended it. HTH. | ||
| Blake |
"The oil gurus say that it take some useage to stabilize the additives in synthetic oils. " Please explain. Are you saying that additives in synthetic oils, of which there are much fewer, are less stable in synthetic based oils versus conventional oils? What exactly are you meaning? And who are these "oil gurus" to whom you refer? | ||
| Rocketman |
Thanks Steve. Oddly, or at least to my way of thinking, Mobil 1 products are difficult to buy with any certainty of continued availability in the UK. This despite Exxon Mobil sat in Birkenhead. Didn't they use to have a plant in Port Talbot? I can buy Mobil 1 fully synthetic from my local trade outlet, but their discount is so small I make around 2 or 3 quid profit from 5 litres. Halfords in the high street offer me a far better discount being a 'trade club' member. That said, with no Mobil filling stations in the UK, Mobil products through spurious outlets seem only available at these outlets discretion. I assume this scenario is a product of bulk purchase on their part, and they'll only bulk purchase what is available. Some years ago, Mobil 1 V Twin fully synthetic was discontinued in the UK. My local Yamaha dealer no longer stocks Mobil 1 Four Stroke Motorcycle fully synthetic, apparently after clutch failures in the R1 models. Halfords too are not consistent with their choice either. Often it is not possible to buy 15/50 Racing, and that particular oil seems to change to 15/50 Motorsport Formula. Then the M1 fully synthetic diesels come in four and five litre tubs, depending on which week of the year you choose, lol. Ah well. It's all good fun, adding to the trials and tribulations of garage management on a frequent basis!!! Rocket | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
Hi Rocket, well Mobil Lube Oil marketing was done for a while through a joint Mobil/BP franchise. This ended when Exxon (Esso in the UK) bought Mobil. Mobil used to have a refinery in Essex which was sold to BP in turn this was sold recently to Petroplus. BP closed a plant in South Wales a fair while ago. Chevron/Texaco still have a fair size refinery in South Wales. Exxon (Esso) have a refinery in Southhampton at Fawley. Mobil's plant at Birkenhad is a blending plant for their lube oils. (At least it was last time I went up that way!). I can solidly recommend Millers up in Yorkshire not too far from you. I know their Technical Director, a realy nice guy and very knowledgeable. If you want to know more you can mail or PM me. You'll get all the Tech help you want from my man at Millers and you'll be supporting a local UK industry too. HTH. | ||
| Rocketman |
Well Steve, the non tech question for now would be, who is distributing Mobil 1 into the UK, and what products are frequently available? Thanks for the Miller Oil recommendation. Next time I need some info it'll be you I ask first. The last time, I was curious to know what differences exist between Dexron II and III and how their applications separate their determined usage. Thanks Steve. Rocket | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
Rocket, I suppose if you can find a customer service number for Exxon Mobil (Esso) in the UK they'll tell you. Must be a website contact somewhere, by law there must be product support on the Hazard Data sheets so look there first. I know it can be really difficult getting to speak to the right person in huge organisations. They seem to make life really hard for the little guys. I haven't got a contact in Mobil now. Regarding Dexron questions, ofcourse that's another reason to use local good quality suppliers such as Millers up in Yorkshire. The Technical Director at Millers will answer all those sorts of questions and more besides quite happily. I presume Dexron is a trademark, if you know the relevant API or SAE standards that the II and III varients are formulated to then you can look up the answers. My advice to you at this point would be to call Millers, get a rep to pop into your business and set up an account with them. Then they'll give you all the info you need. After all, they're only down the road from you really. It's good to support the little guys. | ||
| Rocketman |
Thanks Steve. I should give your Miller man a call next time I'm stuck. Thanks again. Rocket | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
No worries, pleased if I can help. | ||
| Bombardier |
Oil filters filter the oil down to a very small micron size. 5 to 10 I have heard. There is a product that can be purchased called a Filter Mag. This product supposedly magnetically holds the smaller particals that actually do all the damage. My two cents worth. | ||
| Sloppy |
I'd have to question the headline of "frequent oil changes increase engine wear" as this is all dependent upon how well the oil change was done. Was the oil filter filled with oil prior to starting the engine? Was the oil pump primed prior to starting the engine? (turn engine over without ignition or fuel until filter is fully primed). Was the original oil change performed while the oil was hot? In other words, there are MANY variables that affect engine wear than just saying "frequent oil changes cause engine damage". | ||
| Buell_bert |
This is like the question on why the oil system does not act like the fuel system. When you turn on the key the fuel system charges the fuel rails on an injected engine. But can it also charge the lubrication circuit on the engine? If you had oil on the bearings before startup the amount of lubrication should extend the life of the engine. Well I'm just thinking | ||
| Ara |
I am the original owner of my 1997 S3 and I've used Mobil 1 filters for at least eight of those ten years. I also use synthetic oil and prime the filter before I screw it on, but I do not consider that these practices lengthen the maintenance interval. | ||
| Bombardier |
To reduce dry start up after an oil change try taking out the spark plugs and after placing the bike in gear push it to turn the motor over with ignition on. The oil light will go out after building up oil pressure. The benefit is the engine has been lubricated in an almost no load situation. This procedure is not so different from the first oil fill of a newly rebuilt car engine where an electric drill with a suitable attachment is inserted into the distributor shaft to drive the oil pump before installing the timing chain. | ||
| Court |
Thank you. Neat idea. | ||
| Djkaplan |
If you want to push the bike around to get the oil moving, that's fine, but I don't think a roller bearing engine really cares one way or the other. It does seem like a good recommedation for engines that use plain bearings which depend on a constant supply of clean, pressurized oil to function properly. I still fill the oil filter with as much oil as it can carry without spilling before I spin it on, but it's mostly out of habit than any real necessity. Do whatever makes you feel better, though. |
