| Author | Message | ||
     Jammaster |
I have a 07XB9R with about 800 miles on her. Im about to do the 1000 mile service which of course includes changing the oil. I just bought some Amsoil 20w-50 synthetic to replace the stock stuff and was wondering how many miles I should go between oil changes? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Full Synthetic? It should not be showing significant wear until you are getting close to 5000 miles, if it gets ridden a lot. But if you don't put a lot of miles on it, you might want to consider more frequent changes. I use the cheapest full synthetic 20w50 (or 15w50) I can find, and end up changing it around 3500 miles. I fully realize this is slight overkill. Do check the oil often though, especially after long hard runs at high RPM. It's an aircooled motor, and it is not unusual (nor particularly harmful) for it to consume some oil if run hard. | ||
| Sloppy |
Can-o-Worms alert!!! Scientific Answer: Pay for an oil analysis so you know exactly what frequency of oil change you should do. Oil sampling intervals could start out at 2000 miles. The company will then tell you when it's time to change the oil. Simple, Cheap and Emperically based solution... (for those that are a tad retentive) Easy Answer: Double to Triple the mileage interval that you would normally do with dino-oil. Since you don't have a baseline yet, you'll have to estimate it based upon the type of riding you do. 5000 miles is a good start, with no more than one year duration. If you ride year round, change it seasonally -- Spring and Fall. | ||
| Az_rider |
Did anyone notice the change in the owner's manual for '07? The oil change interval has been reduced to 1500 miles for short trips in weather below 60 degrees. See the winter lubrication section: "In colder climates, the engine oil should be changed often. If motorcycle is used frequently for short trips, less than 15 miles (24 kilometers), in ambient temperatures below 60° F (16° C), oil change intervals should be reduced to 1500 miles (2400 kilometers). Motorcycles used only for short runs must have a thorough tank flush-out before new oil is put in. See an authorized dealer." NOTE: "The further below freezing the temperature drops, the shorter the oil change interval should be." | ||
| Jkhawaii |
I ride only 5-6 miles to work and my oil analysis looked just as good as riding long distances. at 5,000 the oil was still good. syn3, redline, even rotela T seem to have simular analysis results regarding wear metals. | ||
| Jkhawaii |
though the XB uses so much oil that in 5,000 miles half the oil has been changed | ||
| Blake |
One quart in 5000 miles is not excessive for an air-cooled engine. | ||
| Reepicheep |
My 9sx will probably consume 5w50 oil four times as fast as it consumes 20w50 oil... for whatever reason. Back to the old school Harley total loss oiling system  | ||
| Blake |
How many 5W50 oils have you tried in coming to that conclusion? See where I'm heading? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Every one in existence at my local retail outlets... that would be Castrol Syntec 5w50. So is SAE 5W50 a standard, or not? And if it is, how could two different 5W50 oils have different consumption characteristics? See where I am going? Thats a conversation I have tried to lure you into analyzing for me on at least three different occasions... about time you went for the bait (i am thinking that for the temperature range they measure, all oils can achieve the 5w50 spec... but that temperature range is not sufficient to reflect the operating conditions of an air cooled 45 degree twin)... | ||
| Jammaster |
So Whats the verdict about 5000 miles?? | ||
| Jkhawaii |
could go alot longer than 5,000 based on oil analysis. the amount of oil burned by these engine 10000 miles on the oil would mean the oil had been changed | ||
| Jhanz |
Some insights on the Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15w 40 diesel oil (NON-SYNTHETIC): I just changed to this as a break-in oil for an 06" XB9SX and the fan comes on MUCH LESS than with the Harley 360 oil; even in stop and go traffic! I'm sold on this stuff so far. Also, I'm running Amsoil 20w 50 in the primary and it is smooth as silk. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Saw that stuff at my local walmart yesterday, and its *cheap*. Looks like a top notch good non synthetic option. I oughta run it for 3500 miles and get a blackstone analysis... I change my full synthetic at 3500 mile intervals anyway... | ||
| Jhanz |
I don't know crap about the technical aspects of engine lubrication, but from the initial impressions- especially considering the cost - I'm convinced that it is a great product. I have also read a lot of good things about it online. | ||
| Blake |
Bill, Do you remember seeing the viscosity versus grade chart? It will reveal the rather significant range of viscosity within each SEA grade. But viscosity may not be what is leading to your excessive loss of oil with the Castrol Syntec. It could well be one of the other significant parameters of engine lubricant performance. Then again, it could be the lower cooler temperature viscosity. It's just tough to know for sure with a sample size of one. I bought four quarts of Syn-3 and two quarts of Forumla Plus today. None of that 5W50 stuff for my Buell.  Here's the chart...  | ||
| Reepicheep |
I remember seeing it, it didn't make sense then either | ||
| Blake |
The two left most columns of data relect actual kinematic viscosity values, the firt (from the left) is for a temperature of 40oC; the 2nd is for a temperature of 100oC. Compare the actual kinematic viscosity range of the SAE crankcase grade 5W at 40oC to that of the SAE crancase grade 50W at 100oC. Interesting? What might that relationship tell us? | ||
| Reepicheep |
That the higher you go in weight, the harder it is to maintain a wide consistency in kinematic viscosity across temperatures? | ||
| Blake |
The point I was looking for was that at 40oC the viscosity of a 5W grade oil falls within the range from about 20 to 30 cSt where at 100oC a 50 weight engine oil falls within the range from 17 to 22 cSt, so while it is possible that a 5W50 oil could conceivably have a lower viscosity at 40oC (17 to 19 cSt) than at 100oC, it is highly unlikely. I'm not sure if it is even possible. The viscosity of a multi-grade oil will typically drop continuously with rising temperature even for a 0W50 multi-grade engine oil. What you are concluding from your experience seems to be that something about the lower viscosity at lower temperatures caused excessive oil consumption. It sure would be interesting to learn what exactly is the mechanism for that excessive oil use. Do the rings not seal well on a not yet warmed up engine and so is a higher viscosity base needed? Or is the Castrol 5W50 simply inferior in some way, possibly falling at the low end of the viscosity ranges, or... ? Were you able to find any hint as to where the oil was being lost? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Actually, my thought is that at higher temperatures (I am assuming my oil gets hotter then 100 deg C at some point) a 5w50 oil gets thinner faster then a 20w50 oil would, and as a result gets consumed faster. I don't know if it was blowing oil by the rings our out the crankcase vent, I still have the stock breather routing. It was not leaking anywhere, and my transmission was not gaining oil. I would not be surprised to hear the Castrol Syntec 5w50 is stretched... Thats an awfully wide viscosity range to claim to support, and I don't see many companies trying to support it. When I was adjusting my timing, I noticed that with plugs in, when I compressed the cylinder on a cold engine by turning the back tire, I could hear the air bleed out (rings? valves? It sounded wet) over a several second interval. Maybe 15 to 45 seconds for it to get easy to further rotate the wheel (because presumably the compressed air in the cylinder bled by). No idea if that is normal or not, but the bike makes good power on the dyno, and has for 15k miles now on original plugs, so it can't be *that* bad. | ||
| Mwbob |
Quote- "When I was adjusting my timing, I noticed that with plugs in, when I compressed the cylinder on a cold engine by turning the back tire, I could hear the air bleed out (rings? valves? It sounded wet) over a several second interval. Maybe 15 to 45 seconds for it to get easy to further rotate the wheel (because presumably the compressed air in the cylinder bled by). No idea if that is normal or not, but the bike makes good power on the dyno, and has for 15k miles now on original plugs, so it can't be *that* bad." Remember that the rings don't totally seal the cylinder. They actually have a specified gap between the ends. Oil helps to prevent blow-by through this gap and past the ring/cylinder seal, but the containment of the compression and expansion of gases is only required for milliseconds during operation. "Leak down" diagnostic tests help determine the condition of top end components by measuring the time it takes for pressure injected into the spark plug hole to "leak down". When my street thumper (kick start only) got too worn on the top end, it wouldn't start after sitting for more than a day or two- No Compression. But, put a teaspoon of oil in the spark plug hole, rotate the engine a few times, re-install the plug and she'd fire right up! | ||
| Tomtower |
I just got my new black Ulysses yesterday, my fiancee and I love it. When I was getting the bike yesterday, they told me that I had to use their Harley- Davidson oil or it would void the warranty. Has any one heard this- is this true? Thanx Tom | ||
| Reepicheep |
There are three questions here... 1) Can the dealer invalidate the warranty based on use of not original equipment manuafacturer oil? The answer to that is an emphatic "no". There is a specific act (Magnasum Moss (sp?)) that prevents this sort of sillyness. 2) Can you use any old oil and have your warranty be valid? The answer to that one is "no" as well. While the manufacturer / dealer cannot tell you to use a particular brand, they can specify appropriate specifications (and your owners manual does include them). If the oil you use does not meet these specifications, and you have an engine failure, and the manufacturer can make a case that this caused the failure, they do not have to cover it under warranty. 3) Does any of this matter? Not much. The legal obligation of warranty is solid, but the execution is a matter of dealer goodwill. If your dealer lacks goodwill, you can pursue legal remedies to try and get satisfaction in the event of a warranty issue, but even if you win, you will loose. You could get your bike fixed and your money back, but it could take months and even years and be a staggering pain in the behind. So while you could "win"... you really lost relative to just fixing the bike yourself and getting on with your life. ==== So if that statement was just the mistaken opinion of one person at the dealership, I would go in and talk to the service manager and get clarification on what their expectations are for you to maintain their goodwill and support for possible warranty work. Their service manager should retreat and apologize for that statement fairly quickly. If the service manager is trying to foist that pile of baloney on you, I would find a new dealer for service and warranty work, and fire off a letter to Buell CS to give them a heads up that they have an issue they might want to address. You don't want to be doing business with that dealer regardless. | ||
| Hotdog271 |
The statment of having to Use Harley oil is very FALSE! That would be like saying you have to have your Ford serviced only at a ford dealer or the warranty is void. Go find another dealer that isn't as ignorant. As far as the brand of oil, any "major" brand will have quality and be fine. I prefer synthetic for a number of reasons. Change it once a year or every 5000 miles at least. I recommend every 3500 miles. (Come on it isn't that expensive.) If once a year change it in fall so the dirty oil doesn't sit in the engine. |
