| Author | Message | ||
     Jimidan |
My buddy is rebuilding his Buell racebike engine and he will need to replace the cylinders and pistons. The engine had stock XB9 iron-lined cylinders with stock XB9 pistons with XB12 heads...a combination that gives a CR of 12.3 to 1...which surprisingly works very well on 93 pump gas. My friend is weighing his options here and is considering all aluminum nicasil cylinders, rather than replacing them with stock components. The advantages to this cylinder construction are reduced weight, reduced friction, and superior heat transfer characteristics. This makes them particularly suitable for a race bike, which is why all racers use them. There are a couple of different manufacturers who make these for Buells. The "new kid" on the block of nicasil cylinders is Axtell, which earned its street cred for producing solid cast iron cylinders. I have a couple of 88" engines that use these cast iron cylinders and can speak to their quality and reliability for street engines, but I would not want to use them on a race bike, primarily because they are heavy. Plus, for racing the nicasil bores will last substantially longer than iron or iron lined cylinders, because the nik-a-sil coating is HARD. So, does anybody have any real world experience with these cylinders on their Buells? What about racing experiences? jimidan | ||
| Court |
>>>So, does anybody have any real world experience with these cylinders on their Buells? Yes. I haven't raced or ridden it. However, folks WHO HAVE ridden it seem extremely excited. Based on Axtell's reputation, you'd be hard-pressed (machinist's term) to do better. Court | ||
| Disturbed |
GREAT website Court! You could/should spend hours in their tech tips section!!!!!!! | ||
| Blake |
I have experience with the lifetime warrantied nicasil plated cylinders from Revolution Performance / Millennium. And it is all good.  The fact that they are warrantied for life and are used in the XBRRs speaks well of them. Plus they help sponsor this place. I think that Axtell are very good and reputable too. Ron Dickey is top notch. (Message edited by Blake on February 13, 2007) | ||
| Jackbequick |
So the bottom line here is that there are at least two good choices for cylinders, Axtell and Revolution as endorsed above. I'd be sort of curious as to what the brand was that NRHS dropped after they started using the Axtells. Does anyone know or remember what they used before? Jack | ||
| Tripper |
same-o same-o | ||
| Pammy |
Anyone who has questions about cylinders and quality thereof is welcome to e-mail or call me anytime. Cycle Rama has been in business for over 30+ years and we can definitely steer you in the right direction. As a matter of fact, I would bet we can answer just about any question you might have...  (Message edited by pammy on February 13, 2007) | ||
| Shazam |
now there is a loaded question Jack! I'm running Axtell's now with great satisfaction. | ||
| Court |
>>>I'm running Axtell's now with great satisfaction. Me too. Ron Dickey was building these things when I graduated from High School in 1971. Like Wes and Pammy he has things pretty well sorted out, provides top-quailty product with excellent support. | ||
| Pammy |
For all of you that have e-mailed me and those of you that have called...I hope I have helped. For those of you that I may have missed(I have had an overload of e-mail) please use my gmail account. That would be pam.cyclerama and of course that would end with .gmail I have been a bit under the weather, but will answer as soon as I can get to it. Thank you all for your participation...  | ||
| Blake |
It was very cool when Ron used to post here. He's a very upbeat and enthusiastic kinda guy who knows way too much about our cherished hot-rod V-Twin air-cooled engines. The cool thing (sorry ![: ]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) ) is that he is now also producing the plated all-aluminum alloy types of cylinders, for three years now I believe. The all iron cylinders are for sure stronger and more stable than their aluminum cousins, but I sure do like the lighter weight and superior heat shedding ability of the all-aluminum cylinders. The Millennium Cylinders have performed flawlessly for me and this in the face of numerous relentless poundings in the Texas heat blasting around the track, as well as multiple cross country adventures. The biggest difference I noticed after switching from the stock iron-sleeved cylinders to the all-aluminum nicasil-plated Millennium cylinders was that oil consumption dropped and blowby disappeared. My CMRA-required catch can has never accumulated any noticeable amount of anything since switching to the Millennium/Revolution Performance cylinders, and this in concert with a serious Nallinization of the engine boosting performance by over 40%. I think Millennium's experience producing product for the US Military including aircraft is pretty neat. If I recall correctly they provide cylinder plating services for the Predator UAV's that we are now using over in Afghanistan and Iraq. | ||
| Blake |
As a matter of fact, I would bet we can answer just about any question you might have..." And most importantly also the ones we don't even think to ask, which for us amateur hot-rodders are often some of the most important questions to have answered. Experience coupled with genius is impossible to beat. Walking through the business end of the Cycle Rama shop one cannot avoid catching glimpses of mouth-watering high-performance billet artwork, the analytical musings, higher order mathematics, and fluid flow calculations scrawled casually wherever might be convenient--don't stand still there too long; one cannot help but get the feeling of being in some top secret V-Twin skunk-works, the Valhalla of high performance internal combustion. But they do have their problems. One problem they are facing now is finding engine cases that will stand up to the incredible performance they are able to achieve. | ||
| Pammy |
Ron just called me. Concerned about my health. He is a thoughtful guy, like that. Ron, you owe me for that one... I must say he is offended as to Court's post indicating he may be older than he truly is(even though he IS old!). He is younger than Wes and Court may have been a bit enthusiastic in his comment.  There is alot to say about both types of pistons. We use both. Actually we use the iron, sleeved and nik-a-sil. Keep those cards and letters comin' folks... | ||
| Jimidan |
Pammy sez: There is alot to say about both types of pistons. We use both. Actually we use the iron, sleeved and nik-a-sil. I am assuming that there are specific reasons why you would use one of these over the other since you sell all three types}, so could you tell the home audience viewers what applications are appropriate for each? That would make for interesting reading I would bet. | ||
| Jimidan |
Blake sez: But they do have their problems. One problem they are facing now is finding engine cases that will stand up to the incredible performance they are able to achieve. Yeah, if only STD had followed its early plans to produce a set of 5 speed cases for Buells and HD. I think that the story I got from them was that when the owner passed away unexpectedly that those plans were never realized. I would bet that since Buell's cases have changed with the XB motor (no trapdoor...what the HECK were they thinkin'?), and then with the Rotax powered Buells coming out next year  , that there will never be enough of a market for anyone to produce stronger XL cases (other than S&S which don't count). The stock ones that I am using in the two 88" engines apparently are not being overstressed enough to break. jimidan | ||
| Pammy |
"Yeah, if only STD had followed its early plans to produce a set of 5 speed cases for Buells and HD." But I got the last set of heads that Lou had personal involvement in(of course before his untimely death) and choose not to change them at this time. So, I am welding up some busted cases donated, from a wreck, by a good customer. It should get the Yellow menace back in action. It's what I've got to work with, so it will do. As far as the cylinders... We use cast iron for some of our more exotic builds. The Nik cylinders are for racers, typically, because every ounce matters. We also use them for the folks who ask for them specifically. We use the iron lined for street builds. We have had great service from all of them. I, personally, am running an old set of Milleniums that have been resurrected over the years and with our own special coating as an added bonus. | ||
| Jimidan |
I, personally, am running an old set of Milleniums that have been resurrected over the years and with our own special coating as an added bonus. I have a set of STD heads on one of my engines, but I believe it was post Lou's passing. I have read some of your post where you talk about your special coatings and heat barriers, but you actually use something on the bores of Nikasil barrels? Hmmm. Could it be Pam?  Can you could use this same coating on skillets to keep food from sticking  ? jimidan} (Message edited by jimidan on February 16, 2007) | ||
| Pammy |
"Can you could use this same coating on skillets to keep food from sticking ?" Nah, it's on the outside. No need for the slick stuff there. Helps disapate heat and seals the old dogs up tight as well. If you look at our new Cycle Rama pistons, now they have a more slick coating. On the skirts. We coat the tops as well. They are supreme and they look bad-ass as well. | ||
| Jimidan |
The pistons DO look bad-assed as well. I like the logo on the domes! | ||
| Bikerjim99 |
I need to return my cylinders. I may have made an error when measuring.  | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Those are really cute! What are they for? | ||
| Bikerjim99 |
Someone with a lot more skill and time than I made those. Check out the website http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/ Jim | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Thanks Jim, now I'm screwed! That website is a black hole for time! VERY neat stuff there! Brad | ||
| Bombardier |
Do you have to mod the engine when using the Revolution Performance barrels and if so can the stock items be reinstalled if required?Also if you go to 90ci will the race ecm and air box be able to cope with the fuel/air requirements? | ||
| Blake |
No, the Revolution Performance cylinders can be used as replacements for stock, as long as you use the same size as stock. Going to 90 ci will likely require some augmentation to the EFI system. The stock airbox may not be optimum, but will work okay. | ||
| Bombardier |
I am not sure what they mean by Case Boring Required on the Revolution Performance site for the 90 inch barrels for XB12. Anyone? | ||
| Pammy |
The case has to be bored(meaning the bottom end has to be disassembled) in order to fit the big bore cylinders. If it were me, I wouldn't go any bigger than 88"(case boring required in this case as well). The spigots get awful thin at 90". |
