| Author | Message | ||
     Jackbequick |
Tom - "One thing that troubles me..." Good post. I feel the same way about the contradictions you describe and it has been a issue for years. The sliding of shifting dogs and straight cut gears that have to slide on shafts can benefit from the sulfur. But then, like you say, there is the clutch. I have not experienced any clutch slip on my M2 with Mobil 1 75W90 so I'll stay with it for now. I don't ride real hard, do racing starts, intentional wheelies, etc. I have the old school "cork plate" habit of thinking of clutch plates as fragile and easily "smoked" so I get the clutch fully released before applying much power in everyday riding. My first bike of any size was a Triumph and I drag raced that a couple of times. The drill back in then was to get your weight on your feet at the start, let the clutch fly with minimum slipping, get the rear tire spinning, and settle your weight on the bike as it moved forward. Any excess of front wheel lift was resolved with the throttle. I hear people (especially those called "squids" here) doing things to clutches that makes me cringe. Is the term "squids" clearly defined? The use here creates confusion in the minds of us old formerly Navy guys. :>  And I see people setting through lights for 2-3 minutes at a time with the clutch lever held in. What's up with that? But the fragility of throw out bearings is a different subject... Jack | ||
| Brucelee |
On the issue of M1 75-90, I do know they claim that this particular gear oil has specific additives to deal with the clutches that are in LSD differentials. Apparently these diffs require an additive if you are using dino gear oil but not with synthetic. I have seen this same comment made by Amsoil and Redline. If this is true, this would seem to indicate that this M1 gear oil is fine for our XB trans. Thoughts? | ||
| Tomd |
Hi, As I understand it, the additive for clutch pac type differentials is to produce more slippage to keep the clutch pac from chattering as the car makes turns. (This slippage is needed because of the 2 different diameter circles the car tracks through during a turn.) From what I have been told through the years is that synthetic gear lubes have better lubrication qualities and don't need additional additives. Who knows, maybe a little slipping on gear changes is good for the clutch, harder to break expensive metal parts if you keep the shock loads down. Tom | ||
| Reepicheep |
Just a simple datapoint here... 2005 XB9SX, 7000+ miles, just went back to Mobil 1 Gear Oil from Castrol Syntec 5w50. Huge difference, for the better, in shifting quality , and no signs of slipping whatsoever. | ||
| Tazbatgirl |
I have a question.... On my CityX, I recently did the 1000 mile service and switched from factory oil to the HD Synthetic in the tranny case. I can now hear the primary chain doing it's thing in there whereas before I could not. Is this just because of the change from regular to synthetic, or is my primary chain maybe loose? i have checked the level in there twice to make sure there is enough in there and that wasn't the reason I was hearing the new noise. I don't think after 1K miles my primary would be loose, but I guess one never knows. Any help would be greatly appreciated! | ||
| Reepicheep |
Probably just need to adjust the primary chain, I had to move mine twice in the first 1k miles, and a couple more times since then (8k miles now). Its an easy adjustment.... shout if you need tips and tricks to make it easy. | ||
| Madsx |
Did you do the service yourself? Or did the dealer do it? There is more that goes into a 1K service than just oil change. I believe checking primary tension may be a part of that. So it is possible it may be loose just from break in. I've heard a little loose is better than a little tight. My CityX seemed to get louder after my first service @ 500mi. Also changed to syn oil at that time. Dont know if any of this helps. | ||
| Tazbatgirl |
I did the service myself, but was planning on taking it in to have the TPS adjusted. So I guess I will have them look at it. The chain did not seem loose to me, and like I said it wsan't making that noise till after the tranny fluid change. Also, it doesn't make the noise until the bike is warmed up, like about 5 minutes after starting. No sound for the first 5 minutes. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Quite a few of us that are running synthetics in the engine are running a heavier weight synthetic gear or transmission oil in the primary. A common combination is Mobil 1 20W-50 in the engine and Mobil 1 75W-90 in the primary. I use that in my M2 and like it. But there are many also running the same weight in both engine and transmission without reporting any problems. If you had a heavier weight/transmission oil in the primary and changed to a lighter oil, that might account for the changed sound. Jack | ||
| Blake |
75W90 is not necessarily "heavier" (more viscous) than 20W50 motor oil. The two scales are intentionally unrelated. A 75W90 tranhy oil is actually about the same as or even a bit lighter than a 20W50 engine oil. The two separate grading scales were implemented in order to avoid confusion between the two different use lubricants. The gear lube contains additives that are harmful to the combustion chamber, forming nasty deposits and such, thus the different scales to prevent folks from pouring tranny lube into their engines.  | ||
| Jackbequick |
Blake's right of course. When I said "heavier" I meant by the numbers if not by look and feel. The transmission oil does have some additives (notably, the unpleasant smelling sulphur stuff) that better serves its intended purpose. I'm not sure it would pass impartial/scientific testing but but 75W-90 simply seems to work well or even better than 20W-50 to some of us. Maybe it is pshcyosomatic? Jack | ||
| Tazbatgirl |
well, let me ask this..... who knows what the Buell factory puts in the tranny case when the new bikes get shipped out? I assumed it was 20w50. maybe it isn't. | ||
| Buellistic |
Tazbatgirl: What ever it is, as soon as it is out of WARRENTY you should up date to SYC3 20W-50 ... In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Cdrlmr |
I have been running Amsoil MCV 20W50 in the crankcase and tranny since the 1k mile service. I had a problem with my tranny not wanting to downshift around 7k miles and burnt up the clutch trying to get home. The clutch was replaced under warranty and I did not think to give the dealership any of the Amsoil I had been using. I assume that they used the standard Dino oil in it. I just had the 10k mile service done on the bike and the dealership now uses Formula + in the primary/tranny. I let them put that in and my Amsoil in the crankcase. Since I did not have back to back from Amsoil to Formula + in the crankcase, I can't make a direct comparison, but from the standard HD oil to the Formula + was a big difference. It shifts much smoother now. I do recall having smoother shifts when I went to Amsoil 20W50 in the tranny originally, but that could have been other factors since the bike was just getting broke in at the time. 20W50 is the RECOMMENDED oil to use in the tranny just about everywhere I have found (including the dealership). If you use a synthetic oil that is DESIGNED for motorcycles in your tranny you will be fine. I do not know if standard automotive synthetic 20W50 will give favorable results since this also lubricates the clutch pack. | ||
| Tazbatgirl |
well, an update on the noise I thought was my loose primary chain. The sound I heard and *thought* was coming from the left side of the bike where the primary chain case is, is *actually* coming from the right side of the bike and it is............................................. my CAMS. Duh. Since the break in they are not so tight and you can just hear them motoring around in there. All perfectly normal the tech tells me. (I guess I have to believe him). In any case, I have extended warranty, so if something goes wrong I am covered on that end. And now I get to RIDE!!!! Since my chain isn't actually loose. Also, had the TPS adjusted, wow, huge difference in response. SOOOO much better. Thanks for all the help and suggestions! | ||
| Raging_dwarf |
Needed help on fluids, found it here, thanks for the help. | ||
| Dmextreme |
Okay so i am newb.. I just replaced my primary cover due to a lay down.. no injuries.. just cracked the case.. so now, what kind of fluid should I use and how much? I'd rather be stock as I can about it, but if someone has some ideas that would be great. I know now in the swingarm, I use Sync3 by HD. Do I use the same in the primary? How much? I mean I will never forget when it went down and cracked the cover.. HOLY $h|t!!! It was like brains exploded! lol just a big mess. But thanks for all your help!!!! | ||
| Reepicheep |
Harley Full Synthetic 20w50 is what was probably in it from the factory, and works well. Mobil 1 gear oil will work a little better, as would the new Harley gear oil (forget what it is called, it is stock in all the new trannies including the XB12X). The 05 tranny is pretty good, you probably won't notice much a difference with any of them. On the old tubers, the mobil 1 made a day and night difference in quality. On my 9sx, I can just barely tell a difference. | ||
| Buellistic |
Reepicheep(AKA Bill): Think about "Dexron V", even less gear spin drag ... Like water, but lubes very well, plus equals better shifting ... In BUELLing Lafayette (Message edited by buellistic on February 07, 2006) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Interesting Lafayette... anyone know if it is stator safe and clutch friendly? | ||
| Buellistic |
Ask ROCKET in England !!! | ||
| Rocketman |
I'm using Dexron III in the tranny. I've incurred no problems with the charging system or clutch. What is Dexron V ??? I've not seen a V (5) rating over here? Rocket | ||
| Brucelee |
I used to use Mobil 1 ATF fluid in my 5 speed BMW. Made a world of difference and was a fav. of the BMW mechanics at the time. | ||
| Sloppy |
Don't put gear oil in your transmission. Gear oil has sulphur. Sulphur eats copper. Copper is great for stators, especially when wound in thin little strands... I wonder how I know... | ||
| Buellistic |
Rocket: Wrong words again, will try to do better ... Castrol MERCON V(used where MERCON V is recomended) !!! Part synthetic ... Sold at Wal-Mart stores here in the colony's ... In BUELLing LaFayette(FRENCH AMERICAN) | ||
| Rocketman |
Stators wound in thin little strands or not will not be contaminated by any oil. Those strands are insulated, otherwise they'd short. I took my stator to a local rewinders and had them coat it in a special stuff I know not the name of. I can tell you though, it was in an aerosol can and it came out wet and blue! Made for the job apparently. I did this because I'd burred ever so slightly a small part of wire on one of the coils when I removed the stator to strip the motor. It works fine now. Rocket | ||
| Sloppy |
While the stator is indeed insulated, it eventually needs to make a connection to the outside. If you look at the wiring that connects directly to the stator (where it runs to the v. reg.) the wire can be exposed to oil. My first symptoms was poor charging. After troubleshooting it to the stator, I opened the primary and this connection fell apart in my hands. I'd been running GL-5's for 2 years prior -- it is a fact that sulphur will corrode yellow metals. My "theory" was the sulphur in GL-5 caused this corrosion. My theory could be wrong, but no other GL-4, motor or hydraulic oil did the same. Also, GL-5's are NOT recommended for manual transmissions from any manufacturer - only in rear-ends where there are no yellow metals. To clarify, not all gear oils have sulphur in them, but most GL-5's do. If the gear oil has a "smell" to it, then it likely has sulphur in it. It is possible to dope this area with an insulated coating, but I figured it would be better if I just used the right oil... and I didn't think the risk of being broken down was worth running GL-5's which gave me no better performance than Mobil 1 engine oil. If you do decide to run GL-5's, I'd recommend frequent checks of your charging system. | ||
| Buellistic |
If we would just run the "LUBERCANTS" the "MOTHERSHIP" recomends, we would not have created so much "BUELLschitte for ourselves !!! (Message edited by buellistic on February 10, 2006) | ||
| Ara |
LaFayette, You're a wizard when it comes to the tubers. I've never heard of using ATF in a manual transmission, auto or motorcycle. Could you please elaborate on the benefits? How long have you been doing it? Have you noted any disadvantages? Russ in Alabama | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
Another option instead of ATF is a penzoil product called "Synchromesh manual transmission fluid". It is designed without sulphur and is intentionally yellow metal friendly. My last Jeep Cherokee had a 5-speed and the conversation on a cherokee website http://www.naxja.org was similar in that the GL-5 gear lube was bad for the synchros (bad for yellow metals). I already had gear lube in the tranny and it shifted like crap and was very stiff if it was cold. I put the Synchromesh in what was already a 165k tranny and put another 80k on it (was still shifting great when I sold it). It shifted easily and smoothly, even in single digit temps. I don't know that I would or wouldn't put it in my Buell, but was curious if any of you guys knew about it/had experience with it. I can recommend it for your manual car or truck though! |
