| Author | Message | ||
     Bartimus |
Jim, No way on the S2, but your welcome to the S1 and it's padded 2X4 seat for a bit. I'm sure you'll love it as much as I do.  Pammy, Thanks, I'm sure this grin on my face will be here for a long time. I'd also like to make note that Millenium DID in fact cover all the costs involving the final replacement of the cylinders, pistons and rings. (Message edited by bartimus on March 17, 2005) | ||
| Tripp |
good to hear your enjoying your bike again bart! i too thought my motor was making a soft knocking when i got my 1250 kit installed and it turned out to be nothing. i have over 2k miles with the nrhs kit and my bike is running strong and fast, with a ton pure throttle wheelie power! happy to hear your all set now, and hope to see you at laconia in june! | ||
| Bud |
ok what happened here  1600 miles after re-plating, took if off because my pushrods where a bid broken   to see if there was any valve damage, luckily the heads/valve's/piston is aok but the lining from the front cylinder, made me to take the rear cylinder off. the rear lining is perfect, a case off alu shrapnel from the broken pushrod ? ( fond a little shrapnel in the gear and pushrod cover, but non on the rings ) or just a crappie done re-plating job ? i noticed there are tiny little black spots in the lining and a closer look reveals the black spots are tiny holes in the lining, casing air bubbles ? i'm almost about to quit buelling, so much bad luck the last year, and this year starts out very well regards, bud | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
Bud, sometimes coatings can suffer from porosity. Sounds like that's what the black "bits" are that you're talking about. Sad. | ||
| Buellistic |
"FOOD FOR THOUGHT": Every think about a return to the oil tank line oil filter ??? In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Bud |
Every think about a return to the oil tank line oil filter ???  yes and yes, new oilpomp, complete engine rebuild, rinsed my swingarm ( xb )20 times just to be sure and the oilcooler and the lines just did a oil change, and almost no metal bids on the magnet ( no more than in the stock engine ) | ||
| Peter |
Bud, Bummer. If you don't want the clutch now, it's no problem. I'd completely understand. Just out of curiosity, what brand of cylinders are they? | ||
| Smokedaddy |
If (notice the IF) the porosity existed when the engine was assembled, then WHY was the engine assembled. <duh> -SD: | ||
| Reepicheep |
If (notice the IF) the porosity existed when the cylinders were cut / coated / shipped, then WHY was the engine assembled. <duh>} | ||
| Bud |
Pete, still want the clutch I never sell my bike anyway There millenniums, They where send out to theme for re-plating because there was a scratch in the front one after my big end bearing blow up ( right crank bearing was shot as well and oil pomp and cam’s ) I must honestly must say I just had a quick look at the cylinders before mounting theme There where shiny and with a perfect hone visual ( there not the one’s I send in , so I got core exchanges back I believe ) New pistons/rings, rebuild crack , new bearings, new oil pomp, new cam’s did the full Monty Ring cap was set for me as well as the making the right bearing case on size ( I know where my tinkering expertise stops ) Rebuild it under the watch full eye from the tuner , in his clean room So I never looked twice at the lining, just cleaned it , some single grade oil on theme and put it on, I think that’s the common procedure, quality check should be at the manufactory not in hands off the customer did the hole heat cycling/ oil change 2x thing and drove it in as the instruction says after +/- 1000 miles , the engine felt good and little to no oil use Probably I would not have noticed if I didn’t took it a part, checking the valve’s after the pushrod’s incident For the pushrods I got the industry standard answer; Whoo I never have seen theme brake, you’re the first. Found the chrome moly tip in perfect condition in the valve cover, next to the broken out side from the alu pushrod tube O lucky me, yet a other first I’m on my way to the tuners and let him have a close look at the lining ( he mounts theme on a regular base ) Ill let you know what his verdict is Gr,b | ||
| Pammy |
Did any of you even NOTICE the push rods? Cylinder wouldn't likely be a factor in that issue. We don't use aluminum push rods. Even so, debris should not have made it's way into the cylinder. But the photo looks as if some sort of fine debris got into the cylinder. What kind of air filter do you use? Was there any evidence of detonation? Did a lifter collapse prior to the failure of the pushrods? If so, was some sort of debris instrumental in the collapse? Also, after a catastrophic failure that you described before, a good rule of thumb is to REPLACE all the rubber lines. If the piston is OK, are those scratches or just ghost marks? Also, the marks look(could just be the photo) to be all on one side(left rear, facing front). Please clarify if you don't mind. A photo of the piston would be a help as well. My questions are out of curiosity, of course...But I would check every avenue BEFORE I put the motor back together. | ||
| Bud |
thanks, The event, never noticed a thing ( I wear ear plug ) valve train was not very noisy, engine feeling very strong , I was on my way to france, for 2 trackdays, we where almost on or destination ( stranded 10 miles for the hotel ) I was just on the throttle out off a corner with 100 m/h +/- 6000 rpm, and loud bang . no more go, first thought my belt, but the engine cut out, so I pulled the clutch and coasted to the side, tried to start a few times , noticed it was firing on one cylinder , so i pulled the sparkplug , nothing to see , put it back in , pulled the airbox lid ( k&n race filter just cleaned and re-oiled ) to see if I could see a wiring problem, tried to start here again, hold the throttle full open to see if the injectors where spraying , and BANG I mean a very load BANG, scared the hell out off me and my traveling mates , and then I noticed a pushrod cover moving 5 mm , ok that’s not good, did some talking about that, we came to the conclusion that the exhaust valve stayed closed , still inlet valve action, fuell and a spark and the explosion had no where else to go but back thought the inlet valve, but the pressure was preventing the inlet valve to open , bending the other pushrod. First word from the tuner, looks like coal particles scraping the side, there are marking on the same places where there is coal missing , but the lining looks like it been shot with hail so much air pockets, he made some better picture’s off it , and send theme to millennium for any advice. your serious about the oil lines ? I have rinsed them several times took a second look on the cylinder , there are some ware mark on theme nothing fancy, I tray to make a good photo off it no traces off detonation, if you feel with the skin off your finger, you don't even feel it, with your nail you feel a little. debris found (alu from the pushrods ) in the gearcover, last oil change ( 100 miles ago ) found little to no bits in the oil , just a "normal" tiny bit on the plug magnet | ||
| Bud |
word from millenium, "It just appears to be some streaking in the bore. Generally this is not a detrimental condition in just light hone theme and put theme on" the little impurities ( tiny holes ) ar not going to effect any thing, the measuring off the bore did not show up any thing than a variation of +0.00008" to -0.000275" even on the streaked parts there's nothing to measure. so i put theme back on after a light hone, i'm confident that they will hold up. thanks for the respons regards, bud | ||
| S1_lightning_nl |
Glad to here you're riding this week end! Welcome to Friesland!  | ||
| Bud |
no can do piet... easy used up all the 88" head gaskets i only got one new,the other one is on order, due early next week, i know they should be re-usable but al the work getting the engine out , i don't want to risk it so the beemer it is gr,b | ||
| S1_lightning_nl |
I talked about re-using those Cometics with Pete the other day. He did it several times without any problems. Cometic claims they are re-usable, but I can understand your thoughts about it.... | ||
| Bartimus |
Tripp, I couldn't handle listening to that soft knocking in the S2, so I had the shop tear into the motor again. The motor only had 65 miles on it! Correction: Upon further investigation it was learned that the problem not at all related to the Millennium cylinder(s). The culprit was one of the CP pistons that was sent from Revolution Performance as part of an entire brand new 1250 kit provided to resolve Art's issues with the cylinder, was the wrong size; it was too small; unfortunately the tech neglected to notice the problem when he re-assembled the engine. The Millennium cylinders were in fact in well within tolerance. The lining looked great except where the piston had been slapping. Still waiting for a reply from Millenium, four calls, with messages left, and still no reply yet. So that's it with the second set of cylinders, so far they are 0 for 2. Last chance to get it right, and then I'll go with the Axtel cylinders. So hear I am, it's been over a year now since I bought that S2, and I've only been able to put 3500 miles on it. <sigh> I think I'm just going to drop my S1W motor in my other S2 and be done with it. Hey Blake, you have some pull with Millenium, can you call them and find out why they haven't replied to Murrae in Santa Fe yet? (Message edited by bartimus on May 25, 2005) (Message edited by blake on June 28, 2005) | ||
| Smokedaddy |
I'll take the S1 off your hands if you want. -SD: | ||
| Bartimus |
SmokeDaddy, you know you are always welcome to come down off that mountain to the valley and take a spin on one of the Buells if you can stand the heat. But I'll NEVER sell any of my Buells. | ||
| Tripp |
damb, i'm really sorry to hear that Art. i thought you were all set! that's really disturbing news. how was it running for the 65miles you did get to ride it? i have to admit i've been super paranoid of the difference in sound from stock to 1250, every time i've ridden my m2 (since the kit) i put my hand over the exhaust pipe to get a real good listen at the motor for any difference in sound and it's always the same (i'm always performing this test with my fingers crossed). thank God so far no problems w/ a little over 3k on the new top end. i'm glad you got back in there quick, will you be replacing the cylinders only or did it damage stuff? i hope everything else in there is ok, if for any reason my motor failed again i would replace the whole damb thing! i'm having mild tranny issues and wish i had replaced the whole motor & tranny! as long as it(my tranny) does'nt crap the bed this summer i plan on pulling it this winter for a complete overhaul and proby have it back cut by zippers or nallin if they do it. or who knows, if i make decent money this summer a baker6 is'nt out of the question. anyway i hope they take care of you, it's at the point where the smart business would do what ever it takes to make the customer happy. it would behoove them to send out new cylinders pronto and make absolutely sure they're perfect! well, let us know how you make out, i'm sure there are a lot of interested readers out there. are you making it up to new hampshire this june? if so hope to see you i'll email you a week prior to laconia, thanks for the update. | ||
| Rippin |
Tripp, Did your 1250 kit come with Hurricane(CE)pistons or the Wiseco ones? Mine came with Wiseco's and I pulled them out after 100 miles and got the Hurricanes! Much quieter especially when cold. Also if I remember correctly Wisecos had shorter skirts. Anywho I've got close to 20K throttle abusive miles on my kit(with regular((2-2500mile)) oil&filter changes) with not a problem. Knock on wood!! | ||
| Bartimus |
Tripp, Murrae did finally hear from Milenium, but still hasn't spoken to Brian yet, he's out at a show or something. So nothing will be done until he gets back. The bike did run like a raped ape. It felt good, just had that knocking sound. I didn't like it. I don't like riding a bike that sounds like it's rod is about to come out the bottom end. Sorry. The main question I have is, "why didn't the bike sound like that for the first 3500 miles?" The motor was quiet when I first broke it in. After the third set of cylinders went in, it started to make that knocking sound. It's been a year i've been dealing with this, and I don't like having a bike I can't ride. It's really getting to me. | ||
| M1combat |
Is he back yet Bart? | ||
| Bartimus |
Yes, from what I've been told, the cylinders are in fact ok, good enough to run. (?) The front piston was undersized for the cylinder. I thought they were a matched set? I guess not. Not sure why this was not caught during assembly either. The pistons have been replaced with ones with a longer skirt. (here again, I'm not sure why the same type pistons I had originally, were not installed) either way, the bike is together once again, and the shop will put the first 100 miles on it to insure everything is together and running right before I drive all the way over there to pick it up.  | ||
| Blake |
Art, So you mis-spoke when you on May 24 stated that "They found the front cylinder was not round"? Now you are characterizing the cylinder questionably as "good enough to run. (?)" which leads me to read that something about the cylinder is not quite like you'd want it. If that is the case, then please describe what exactly is troubling you about the cylinder. Sure is nice of Millenium/Revolution Performance to warranty a mis-sized CP piston rather than pass the buck and send you off to deal with CP directly on that. If they did pass the buck on that, do you think CP would agree to cover the labor required to perform the required work? You know, like Millenium/Revolution Performance did when you approached them about warrantying the cylinders you bought from another retailer and your shop installed the unpainted cylinders that were supposed to be painted? From where I stand covering that labor is going WAY above and beyond the call of duty for a business. Especially a business who is warrantying a part that they originally sold wholesale for very little profit. It sure is good to see a business stand behind the products that they sell. Oops, but Revolution Performance never did actually sell you anything did they? And yet they have provided well over $1,200 worth of warranty coverage and free parts not only for the one troubled cylinder sold to you by another retailer who then decided they could not deal with your problem, but for an entire brand new Revolution Performance 1250 kit, the labor to install it and now another new set of pistons. Yep, sure is nice to see a business actually stand behind the products they That's my take on the whole issue. I share it because I am getting the very real and strong sense that some here have been unwittingly sucked into a malevolent agenda. And I am pretty darn sure who is behind it. And I am sick and tired of it. I don't trust any businessman who goes around badmouthing others, period. The badmouthing almost always reflects more on its originator than its target. | ||
| Blake |
Anyway, sorry for the rant. My wish is only that you get your S2 and get it back on the road for a lot of long and enjoyable miles to come. Cheers, Blake | ||
| Tripp |
sorry so long to respond but yes, i have the hurricane pistons. i have approx. 3k miles on the new top end and it runs great! i recently replaced my v&h can for a force full exhaust and what a screamer my cyclone is! | ||
| Bartimus |
He he, Rant away Blake, it's your message board. Anything I say can and will be edited in any way, shape, and form. "Sure is nice of Millenium/Revolution Performance to warranty a mis-sized CP piston rather than pass the buck" Sorry to say, I found out today, as I brought the S2 back again to Murrae, that Millenium did NOT in fact warranty the work done on the bike last time. This time the bike is using 2 qts of oil per 500 miles. Hmmm, deja vu? Anyway, I doubt very much if we will even deal with Millenium this time. More than likely, we will just go with Axtel, and be done with it. If you could, would you contact Murrae at Santa Fe HD/Buell in regards to this Millenium Warranty issue? You can reach him at: 505-471-3808 He said today he would LOVE to chat with you about this. I'm not even going to get involved in an online pizzing contest. You can badmouth Aaron all you want, your the businessman, not me. I'm sure you and many others have had VERY good service from your cylinders. I must be getting the ones made on Monday morning, LOL Tripp, How was Laconia this year? Didja get wet? I'm bummed I didn't make it out there this year, my Mom is pretty upset with me about that. But after last years scare and lengthy hospital stay, and all the moving I've done this year I felt it best to stay on this side of the country. I'm no longer in Arizona, I've moved to Albuquerque, since my S2 spends so much time over here at the shop, I decided to move closer. (just kidding) Either way, I'm certainly enjoying the cooler weather, and doing a good job putting miles on the city-X and S1W. I'm probably going to sell one of my S2's next year to finance my trip back east, and perhaps pick up a Uly. How close R U to Concord? I'll be about 10 miles north in Penacook, it's right on rt3, Which "used" to be main street when I grew up, but now goes by another name now that Concord has absorbed it as one of it's "suburbs" LOL. So your gonna do the "winter rebuild" on the trans this winter? I wonder if it'll get cold enough for me to tear into one of mine, LOL I heard it does snow here, but it's gone in a day or two. Gotta love the desert! Anyhow, glad your still riding, and it's holding together. I'm looking forward to meeting you one of these years! LOL Bart | ||
| Blake |
Art, I'm sure that if one installs pistons without first verifying that they are the correct diameter and then expects the folks who sold the pistons to warranty the labor for correcting that issue, then one will indeed be disappointed. Does your shop take responsibility for anything their supposedly expert technicians do? To clarify, Revolution Performance warrantied the pistons which they provided free of charge in the first place; they did not warranty the labor to replace the incorrectly sized piston. It is simply negligent practice for any technician to not verify proper piston diameter prior to installation. If indeed the front piston was so loose that it appeared evident by mere visual inspection, if indeed it was so loose that it jiggled back and forth in the cylinder, how the heck was that missed during installation? If as you say you don't want to "get involved in an online pizzing contest" I ask that you be more careful with the facts. Some of your statements are horribly lacking in that respect and always with the slant of deriding/impugning one certain party or their products. It becomes more and more clear as time goes on that there is an agenda here above and beyond what is pertinent. I have no desire to discuss the issue further with Murrae or anyone. I would suggest that if your bike is indeed now consuming 2 qts of oil every 500 miles that you might want to find a more competent shop to service it, one that can be relied upon to do things like verify proper piston diameter prior to installation. Not sure what you mean when you asserted that "Anything I say can and will be edited in any way, shape, and form." I don't edit posts or remove them for no good reason. I address them as I see fit especially in the case where horribly inaccurate information is presented that might damage the good reputation of others. I simply call it like I see it as fairly as I can. My sense of fairness has been seriously offended by some of your posts. I thus see fit to address the issue. It sure is interesting that before even knowing the honest cause of your S2's horribly excessive oil consumption, you seem to be placing the blame on Millennium cylinders. It is just that kind of behavior along with your mis-statement concerning the cylinder integrity that I am finding it more and more difficult to take seriously anything you say on the matter. Either too much emotion or some other agenda is at play and either way I cannot support it. I do ask that you not carry on personal conversations via any KV topics. (Message edited by blake on September 18, 2005) | ||
| M1combat |
What kind of rings are you using Bart? |
