| Author | Message | ||
     Lars |
Oh, Brother! Sad news Rocket. I'm almost sorry I started this thread, except for the great information being shared here. I hope we all get our problems fixed to our expectations! Hein, sounds like you've found a great fix! Good luck. Lars | ||
| Hans |
Hein, If ever a good thing followed a mishap it is here. I would NEVER have expected that an assurance company would pay another time, after settling the primary damage. Lucky you. Rocketman, Toooo bad. All I can say is...(see above) And you have personality too. And you had never an accident. Cause ??? Can a tight belt tore the engine from his mounts ? Pity, pity, pity. If anybody could find a fast way to get things resolved it is you. Good luck my friend. Hans. | ||
| Hein |
Hans, it's not the insurance company who's paying because the bike was declared a total-loss. West Coast Motors is paying cause they didn't recognize the frame irregularity in the first place when they should have. You see, there are dealers around who stand up for their responsability! Rocket, I can hardly believe this, what can I say... Send some pictures if you can. I'm with you, spiritually speaking... S1WL Hein in Am*dam | ||
| Hein |
Just a thought: Lars: S3 1998 Mark: S1 1998 Hein: S1 1998 Rocket: S1 1998 Why are they all 1998 bikes? Has this happened to any other year's bikes? M2? X1? I feel a recall coming up and I think this should all be very well documented and be presented to our beloved BMC... Think about it... S1WL Hein in Am*dam | ||
| Rocketman |
I just got off the phone with Mark and he was telling me he talked with BOZ Engineering, a well respected Harley and Buell engineering shop in the UK, and they know of at least 6 bikes that have had this failure. There's also a guy in Scotland who's suffered the same fate except his motor hit the deck and so did he. I'm gonna call Bernie at Buell HQ and see what the "deal" is. What concerns me right now is the fact that my heads were flowed in the States by Dick O'Brien. How the hell can I expect to get a replacement head I wonder, which means the head I've got might have to be reparied. In any case, whatever route I take to resolve this problem, I suspect it won't be a quick fix. Here's England in the middle of the riding seasons, and it's my 40th in a couple of weeks, and my favourite toy is laid up with a sick head  BERNIE TILLER I'm gonna be calling !!!!!!! Rocket in England | ||
| Court |
Rocket: Due to the riding season...I'd get a head, any head, and slap in their whilst yours is in repair. FRONT FORKS: think of bending a piece of plywood. When yoiu bend it, it "snaps" on the backside, away from view. A couple months ago, my riding partner had his Bandit 1200 back into by an auto. Very small ding in one of the forks was described by local dealer as "cosmetic". I'm tough to convince and sent the fork to Little Mike Kruger (who was a baby when we taught him to ride and now has several moto-X championships aboard KTM's) at Topeka HD/Buell. Topeka has two things I was interested in. First GREAT facilities and equipment. Second, Mike Kruger is one of the best of the best suspension folks. Sure enough, the "ding" on the outside was a huge gapping crack on the inside. He replaced the slider and rebuilt the entire front end and shipped it back with the KLR forks he was doing for me. MORAL: If in doubt, check it out. CONTACT: Mike Kruger Cycle Zone (dirt bike subsidiary of Topeka HD/Buell) 785-234-6181 Court | ||
| Anonymous |
Hein, that was a real good idea two years ago. Those of you STILL riding around on WP shocks may want to remember this. From the B-018 RECALL bulletin dated May 13, 1999 GENERAL Buell Motorcycle Company has learned that certain 1997 and 1998 Buell motorcycles were built with an isolator mount system that could lose clamp load. Should this condition occur, it may allow the engine to move unexpectedly in the frame and cause an unintended distraction to the operator, which could result in an accident. Accordingly, Buell Motorcycle Company is conducting a voluntary recall campaign to formally recall all potentially affected motorcycles. This campaign involves all 1997 and 1998 S1 Lightning, S1 White Lightning, M2 Cyclone, S3 Thunderbolt and S3T Thunderbolt model Buell motorcycles manufactured between January 6, 1996 and June 16, 1998. | ||
| Dynodave |
Too bad I'm at work now otherwise I could post a photo of my solution to this problem. On my '98 S1, I lost THREE motor mounts, including two of the 'Recall' items. My advantage is that I am an Engineer. Applying my vast anal-lytical talents to this problem, I came up with a new design for the front mount and the bolts. The new plate is fabbed from 1/4" COLD ROLLED STEEL!!! It can be dropped from great heights and it AIN'T GONNA BREAK!!! Four pieces are welded together to make the mount. A coupla Lock Washers are placed between the plate and the head to provide clearance for the rocker covers. The STEEL plate solves two of the three problems associated with the existing support system. It DON'T BREAK and it is THIN. The STEEL material is VASTLY superior to the POT-METAL used on the stock brace. The thinner profile reduces the sight radius seen by the bolt and the head, thus the radial forces are greatly reduced. The third problem is solved by selecting bolts that have an unthreaded shoulder that extends about 3/16-1/4" into the head boss. Unfortunately, the stock bolts have the junction between the unthreaded portion and the start of the threads situated right at the interface between the mount and the head. I am currently working with Yankee Enginuity on the design of a Billet Motor Mount for the Buell. | ||
| Rocketman |
Yes well as clever as you might be, the problem isn't with the mount , it's the head itself that breaks. Here's the deal with mine. An engineering wizard friend of mine popped to the workshop the other day, where upon he took it to task to look at the Buell in the corner with the broken head mount. Ha, we now know how this has happened. Just at the point where the mount cracks there is what looks like a small casting error in the head itself. It could be an air pocket or just a poor casting mould, but never the less, there is something that looks like it shouldn't be there. As we all know, a crack ALWAYS starts from an imperfection somewhere and I'm pretty sure this is the route of the failure. Looking at the broken off piece of head, it is clearly visible that the crack has developed over a period of time. I can't say how long but the broken surface has markings that are typical of two surfaces rubbing together, perhaps even alloy particles been compounded together in the crack itself, but it is also clear that when the break finally occured, it left part of the broken surfaces with a "nice" clean break. This would be the part that held out the longest. Further, the bolt that sheared from the left mounting made a scratch mark upside of the threaded hole when it broke off. This would only happen if the bolt snapped after the right side mounting had broken, ie, the left side bolt was holding the motor before it(the left side bolt) broke, and when it did break, however long after the right mount broke, it happened suddenly which is how it left a scratch mark on the head, the broken bolt scribed it. PROGRESS................ Removed broken stud from left side mounting hole. Cleaned thread in right side hole because the thread is deeper than what the stock bolt consumes so there is about a half inch or more of thread still available in the right side mounting hole. Purchased some longer high tensile shanked bolts and calculated the length to get in to the hole with as much thread as possible, then applied Devcon to the broken mounting, bolted back together again, and hey presto...............it's sat in the workshop awaiting the Devcon to set. It's only a temporary repair (read boged) but it's a gud 'un and it might just get me mobile whilst the summer is upon us. Don't think this took a few minutes to sort either. It took about 7 hours to repair carefully. All that is required now is some Chuck Yaeger style antics by yours truly, test pilot Da Rocket  Rocket in England | ||
| Blake |
Rocket: Your description of the failure surface indicates a typical fatigue failure with the resulting fringe patterns (these look kinda like growth rings on a tree stump). You wouldn't have any pictures would you?  Please excuse my ignorance; what is Devcon, and what are it's structural (strength) properties? Can you fit a safety strap/cable to keep another catastrophic failure from putting you at such risk? You're ugly enough already; I'd hate to see you all bruised and scabbed up.  Good luck! | ||
| Hans |
Devcon is a two component glue hardening within twenty minutes. It is used to fix balsawood aero modelling parts on cedar but being British it is supposed to be more than strong enough.  Hans | ||
| Tripper |
Like LUCAS could slay the darkness?? | ||
| Rocketman |
Hans the Elder :That's an excellent description of Devcon The Devcon is in no way meant to do anything other than hold both broken pieces together. It will not bring any strength or stability to the repair, or non of any significance, other than it will perhaps supplement the metal that has dissapeared but it most importantly gives the correct space back to the relationship between bracket and head without having to flat the surfaces and introduce a spacer. It was very important to get the stud length and thread depth spot on in order to maximize the amount of thread left in the head and NOT to over stress said thread. I don't think the safety thing is that big an issue to be honest. When the motor drops the front bracket catches the rocker cover underside anyway. Then there's all those Heim joints holding up the plot and the headers will sit on the frame tube and the carbb........ you get the picture. Yes I do have some good pics but I've not been able to download them yet. Later baby, later........they're for the express attention of Buell UK because at some time soon, I'm gonna be asking for their help. For now I wont mention the broken CF chin spoiler la da la da............. Rocket in England | ||
| Blake |
Rocket: Scary stuff, streeting that. Even if you'd used a proper structural adhesive I'd be wary of the repair's integrity. I hope I'm just being a typical paranoid stress analalyst. | ||
| Rocketman |
Blake Superior : Stop fussing you old woman. If it breaks again it ain't going far (the motor) (or the bike) However, if it doesn't break, for a while anyway (no doubt in time it will break again), at least I'll be able to ride now rather than later. It's only a temporary "fix" remember. Now where is your Right Stuff spirit man ? After all, these are HOOLIGAN bikes right, and one can't be seen to be "soft" on one, can one ?????!!!!!???!!!?? Rocket in England (self appointed STRESS pilot) | ||
| Blake |
That's "MR." Blake Superior to you, mister fixit. I have some duct tape I can send you. | ||
| Court |
Blake: Don't put your hand in his cage. :-) By the way.....the vauge figure, you could see through the rain, wind and storms last night, was none other than Court riding home from the Pig and Whistle where I'd gone looking for my playmates. Too funny, but I'd forgotten how much I love riding motorcycles. It was me, the Aerostich Darien jacket (Uglystich) and Paul McCartney & Wings belting out "Magneto and Titanium Maaaaan" with just a teeensy weeensy fairing for protection. I adopted the classic "what the heck, I've already reached terminal wetness" and did the 5 Boroughs tour. Any idea, in that kinda wind, what a high profile bike does in a downpour as it encounters the 18' long expansion joints on the Veranzzano (longest in the U.S.) Bridge ? Yipppppppeeeeekiahhhhhhhhhy........... I love this sport. Court | ||
| Rocketman |
"what the heck, I've already reached terminal wetness" and did the 5 Boroughs tour. You hard b a s t a r d Court Real Right Stuff !!!!!! Rocket in England | ||
| Mark_In_Ireland |
Devcon and Thistlebond......most of the ships sailing the 7 seas are kept afloat with repairs using the above. Its probably the strongest bit on Rockets bike now!!! I've some empty bean tins you can have too. | ||
| Court |
Rocket: C'mon over.....I'm betting you'd love the South Bronx about 11:45pm on a Saturday night...hehehe. Court | ||
| Ralph |
Hein, I just got back from out of town. Glad to hear about your stand up mechanic. I personally don't see any problems with straightening a frame with only a small deflection. Don't pass on the idea of a complete replacement though. Frame straighteners (good ones) charge big money. Buell has frames in the warehouse waiting for nothing more than having the VIN stamped on them. To give you an idea, I had a replacement Sportster frame in three weeks after ordering it. Of course, I am a touch closer to them then you are. bighairyralph | ||
| Hein |
Ralph, had it checked. Takes 2 months at least to get a new nuke blue S1 frame to Holland, summer would be definitely over... hope this is gonna work, then I should be driving in one more week.. S1WL Hein in hot Am*dam | ||
| Ralph |
Hein, I'm sure that'll work fine. Just wanted to see if you'd checked. Should have known better bighairyralph | ||
| Lars |
Hey Guys! I drove down to Ellington, CT to TSI H-D/Buell to have them do the motor mount repair and alas, replace the original shock. They are checking on "goodwill" replacement of the black part of the saddle bags, but . . . It turns out that the motor mount was recalled some time ago, thanks Manchester HD/B! Anyway the bags I just found out the bags are goodwilled! And I can get it back on Saturday. All work done. Thank you TSI H-D/Buell. Great customer service and what a shop! Clean, brightly lit, huge, and Air Conditioned! Very helpful, each and every person. Mark is their "#1 Buell Mechanic" He does the majority of Buell work. what a concept! ;-) Go see these guys and girls! Thanks again TSI!!!! Lars | ||
| V2win |
When my engine was tore down for some work, one of the front mount bolts was broken. What has me puzzeled was where it broke. It was broken about 4-5 threads deep inside the head. It appears that it has been that way for some time. I would have thought that it would have snapped even with the head. It is my understanding that these bolts are supposed to be a special hardness and only they are to be used in this application. I just dont understand what would make it break that far inside the head. Any one here have ideas? | ||
| Blake |
V2win: That's about what I would expect. Keep in mind the geometry in play and the relative wimpiness of the aluminm alloy head (aluminum has roughly 1/3 the stiffness of steel). Mental Experiment #1: Thread a 3/8" diameter high strength steel bolt into a 1/16" thick aluminum alloy plate. Pull laterally on the bolt head. Will the bolt break, or will the aluminum alloy plate bend/yield allowing the bolt to deflect? How thick will the plate need to be before the bolt fails without significant yielding of the plate? In a cantelever loading scenario, the aluminum alloy surrounding the first few threads of a steel bolt effectively just deflect with the bolt as it is stressed laterally. It takes 4 to 5 threads to allow the aluminum to build up enough rigidity to be able to support the fairly large overstressed bolt to a point where the bolt can fail. Mental Experiment #2: Imagine sticking a pencil halfway into a block of jello and pulling laterally on the eraser end. The jello isn't rigid enough to allow the pencil to break. Now jab the pencil into a block of cookie dough and try the same thing. The pencil might break, but it will be well inside the cookie dough at a point where the dough, only after acting over a significant length of the pencil, was able to exert enough force to allow the pencil to bend and break. Now, why am I hungry all of a sudden. | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
Nice one Blake, but considering this is by no means a new scenario (three this month in our group, including one cracked head), is there ever going to be a 100% fix for it? I guess not? Steve steve@ukbeg.com http://ukbeg.com | ||
| Blake |
Watch out for those crack heads!!! Steve, I was only answering V2win's question. Sounds like you have other issues similar to Rocket's. Are the three failures in your group on stock engines? | ||
| Aaron |
V2win, was the recall described by B018 performed on your bike? Per the discussion above? GENERAL Buell Motorcycle Company has learned that certain 1997 and 1998 Buell motorcycles were built with an isolator mount system that could lose clamp load. Should this condition occur, it may allow the engine to move unexpectedly in the frame and cause an unintended distraction to the operator, which could result in an accident. Accordingly, Buell Motorcycle Company is conducting a voluntary recall campaign to formally recall all potentially affected motorcycles. This campaign involves all 1997 and 1998 S1 Lightning, S1 White Lightning, M2 Cyclone, S3 Thunderbolt and S3T Thunderbolt model Buell motorcycles manufactured between January 6, 1996 and June 16, 1998. | ||
| V2win |
yep. |
