| Author | Message | ||
     Vwolf |
Blake Thanks for your repond.I learned this from my brother and his bikes.back then sporties where actually the bike of speed on the southside of Chicago.Straightpipes and straightbars where best for somereason.I was in Highschool in them years and the shop was 2 city blocks from school kewl huh!I was very happy to have you say It was ok to use the clutch that way.I don,t remember anyone having problems with even the old sporties.I sometimes feel like alot of riders forget the way we used to ride a bike..shifting never helped get you ahead like using the clutch properly.I remember flying way ahead of others and then thinking I had something special..hmm all I did was give it more gas and I guess more clutch.I wondered because someone at Blackhawlk trip mentioned that they though I was having problems with the bike.I would get into turn one the big stretch and have instructors on rc5s come along side then I would do that and get back what I lost and it felt easy this time.Its the cams too and next is getting the air (bread) box off.then get a carb Jet kit then ahh all the other stuff too.Oh what did ya mean by loop?I would think spun it in neutral right?The Buells are not yet too well understood here in Chicago ,,most perfer sporsters. I hope to change that..wish I was youoger tho see ya Vwolf Wcb  | ||
| Blake |
Loop = Wheelie too far resulting in embarrasing crash. No way I could simply stay at WOT while dropping my M2's clutch going hard from 2nd to 3rd. The bike would definitely loop or break loose. The 1st to 2nd shift is totally out of the question as just accelerating in 2nd lifts the front wheel. Your clutch will give up a LOT sooner using the speed shift approach you seem to like. You might try clutchless upshifts instead. Clutchless upshifts, if done properly are no threat to the tranny, but you do need to roll off the throttle momentarily. The best approach on a roadrace track is always to maintain a smooth well controlled ride. Save the clutch popping for the drag strip. | ||
| Burton4551 |
Question for all of you? 99 M2. Thought that the bike would only start in nuetral so I replaced the kick stand kill switch. Then I noticed that the bike will start in gear if I pull the clutch lever all the way back to the hand grip. What is the best way to adjust this? Thanks Luke | ||
| Mikej |
My '00 M2 will start in gear with the clutch lever pulled to the grip. The Blast must be in neutral to start it. I think it is normal to be able to start the bike in gear with the clutch pulled in with the '99 M2. As a comparison, an S2 will start any ol' time you hit the switch regardless of which gear or how the clutch is used. Wanna go quickly, just leave it in first and hit the starter, off you go even if you didn't want to.  | ||
| Burton4551 |
I guess my question was is that normal to have to pull back the clutch back so far. It always seem to start in gear just fine with out the clutch lever hitting my bar end mirror. So I am not sure if that is just the way it is or if I can adjust the clutch??? THanks for the tips!!!  | ||
| Mikej |
I just went down and looked at mine. Doesn't seem to be any adjustment on the switch as the plunger tip rides against the paddle on the clutch lever. I guess someone could file down the end of the switch plunger so it would activate sooner, or I guess someone could slot the switch mounting holes a bit, but it looks like the assembly is designed with no intential adjustability. | ||
| Leeaw |
I need some help. The clutch lever broke and I cannot find my manual. I have never played with the clutch parts before. Can anyone give me instructions to replace the lever, or even better, fax or email me a scan from the manual? I want to get it done ASAP as my bike is stuck here at work. If you have a moment and can photocopy, it would really help. Fax: 914-666-9690, email leeaweiss@hotmail.com Thanks. | ||
| Jmartz |
My clutch is glued together in the mornings. No matter how long I hold it in and spin up the motor, upon engaging 1st gear the bike lunges forward and quits, just as if no clutach at all was used. I cleaned the basket about 2000 miles ago. What the hell is happening? | ||
| Blake |
Did you use that shockproof sludge? | ||
| X1glider |
Is the fluid level too high? I know that too high a level will cause drag and poor clutch performance. Maybe it will also cause the plates to stick? Something to check out, even if my guess is wrong. | ||
| Charley |
Blake , i think blaming everything on the shockproof oil is a bit to easy , i and a lot of people use it with good results and o.k. you have to clean out your clutch basket once in a while, so what? Jmartz , what oil are you using and (very correct X1glider)how high is the fluid level? | ||
| X1glider |
Should be level with the bottom of the clutch diaphram. (I think I'm using the correct word) | ||
| Blake |
Charley, I'm not blaming anything, just asking a question. Seemed like a logical one to me. You sell Redline or something? You seem defensive about the shockproof goo issue. I for one don't want to remove the primary cover and clean the clutch basket and stator if I don't have to. Given the choice I think I'd rather replace a leaking rockerbox gasket. Secondly, the stuff is ridiculous, particles of sludge that can accumulate and cover the stator causing it to fail. No thank you! Bottom line is that it is unnecessary and the whole idea of putting that goo in a high speed sportbike transmission seem ludicrous to me. It seems like sabotage. Does the stuff clog up inside the tranny too? No thanks. I'd rather use the OEM stuff, better yet a good synthetic 75W90. | ||
| Buellbob |
Jmartz Is you're clutch adjusted Properly? A couple of months ago I had to replace my clutch cable and found the adjusting screw setup really loose. Anyway what I'm getting at is that after replacing the cable and adjusting the tension on the screw to what the manual said, it cured my hard shifting and I can now find neutral with ease. Maybe somewhere along the way the adjustment loosened up and you're clutch is not disengaging fully. Bob | ||
| Charley |
Blake here my reaction >> ("Charley, I'm not blaming anything, just asking a question. Seemed like a logical one to me. You sell Redline or something? You seem defensive about the shockproof goo issue. "  Yes as a matter of fact i do sell it , but for all i care i make more profit on stock oil or equivelant than on the HSP stuff so that's not the point(pretty easy blow) ("I for one don't want to remove the primary cover and clean the clutch basket and stator if I don't have to. Given the choice I think I'd rather replace a leaking rockerbox gasket." what's the leaking gasket got to do with it ? ("Secondly, the stuff is ridiculous, particles of sludge that can accumulate and cover the stator causing it to fail. No thank you! Bottom line is that it is unnecessary and the whole idea of putting that goo in a high speed sportbike transmission seem ludicrous to me. It seems like sabotage. Does the stuff clog up inside the tranny too? No thanks. I'd rather use the OEM stuff" The stuff doesn't cause stator failure!!! what a nonsense!!!how do you come up with that idea?? you mean the iron particles out of your trans,starter,clutch and chain are getting to that big magnet(instead of the little on the drainplug) are a source of shorting out the stator (mostley stator failure comes from a bad ground on the regulator or regulator failure And since when is a Buell transmission (actually a harley sportster low power trans , this will get me in the hall of shame thank you) a high speed sportsbike trans , the trans in our Buell's got nothing to do with a modern sportsbike transmission it's even far from that it better suits a John Deere , sportbike trans get out of here. And no it doesn't clog up in your trans it's just clutch dust that is binding with the oil and sits in area's where there is hardley any oil flow , on OEM oil it wanders in the whole trans and bearings , your choice. Naming it goo means you don't want to understand the idea behind the oil. I see less wear on the gears , smoother shifting,less bearing failure in my shop since i sell this stuff. and last , don't call it sludge because that's in engine oil and caused by something else Kind regards | ||
| Jmartz |
I am using the sludgy shockproof. I had used it for several years w/o problems until the clutch just ceased to disengage. I opened the case and found a green goo blocking the basket from compresssing. This was just about 2000 miles ago when I did the service. At the time I had intended to switch to Mobil 1 75w90 but I still had a $9 redline quart left. I decided to use it for the last time. Since it took several years for the green goo to accumulate I thought I'd be safe till the next trans service. I'll provide a report whe I open the case again. 1st needs some attention as the dog teeth have cavities which result in that false engagement and subsequent jerking a condition that many here have mentioned. Maybe I'll drop in the Baker while am in there. Al adjustments are according to specs. | ||
| Djkaplan |
Just a suggestion... Did you inspect the ball and ramp mechanism? | ||
| Jmartz |
Dj: The problem is one of adhesion of the shaft disks to the the basket disks. The spring is being overcome and even with all pressure released the clutch is still fully engaged till the forces applied finally free the disks and independent rotation resumes. Its a chemical thing, I'm convinced. | ||
| Jkmf |
Here's some application info from Zipper's web site on Red Line HEAVY SHOCKPROOF: By far the best transmission oil you can buy for use in Big Twin 4, 5 or 6 speed street bikes. You‘ll notice immediate smoother shifting. This stuff is magic in a bottle! # 084-120 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MTL (GL-4): Synthetic wet clutch oil. For use in Harley Big Twin primary chain case # 084-100 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 75W90 (GL-5): Combination wet clutch and gearbox oil for use in Sportster ® gearbox/primary/clutch compartment # 084-110 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LIGHT SHOCKPROOF: Use in race only applications for Big Twins and RaceCase transmissions, and extreme applications for wet clutch and gear-boxes for Sportsters ® # 084-130 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SLPSP SHOCKPROOF: For special race gearbox applications where no oil drag is required. # 084-140 | ||
| Hootowl |
So if you're going to use redline, the light shockproof is best for Buells? Wonder why redline recommends the heavy? It is SO much thicker than sportrans. Like comparing corn syrup to corn oil. | ||
| Doncasto |
Hootowl: As of last month I was told by Redline that they recommend the 75W90 for Buells and Sportsters. You might want to check this out for yourself by emailing Dave at Redline Don | ||
| Hootowl |
No, I believe you. In fact, I was planning on using the 75W90 the next time I change the fluid. I hope it shifts as well as the heavy did. Between the redline heavy, the 01 shifter and the new detent plate, it shifted really smooth. Almost silky, if such a term can be applied to a sportster tranny. It only clunks between 1st and 2nd, but I never miss the shift or get false neutrals between other gears anymore. | ||
| Blake |
Charley, Someone here posted that the shockproof crud/goo, whatever you want to call it, had encased their stator causing it to overheat and fail. Then you have the pictures of Aaron's clutch, and José M. telling us about the accumulation of crud in his clutch, and to top it all off Redline themselves do not recommend using the shockproof in a Buell/XL tranny/primary. They now recommend their 75W90. You've never seen a tractor's transmission have you? Because if you had, you wouldn't be comparing the Buell tranny to one. As to my comment about preferring to change a rockerbox gasket, well, that was in reference to your comment implying that cleaning the clutch basket (you forgot stator) was no big deal. It is to me. You could fill the tranny with fine sawdust and it would run and shift more smoothly than on the OEM SportTrans. That doesn't make sawdust in your oil a good thing. Use it if you want. The manufacturer doesn't even recommend its use in a Buell tranny. | ||
| X1glider |
Yep, they only recommend either shockproof for big twins only. Their tranny is lubed separately from the primary and have a different primary fluid. They do say the light can be used in a XL for extreme applications. Whatever that is. Maybe Ralphs 88 incher? As far as the relationship between the fluid and the clutch goes, the fluid is absorbed into the friction material much like a wood worker's biscuit. It doesn't make the clutch perform any better by holding more of a load. That's what surface area and spring pressure do. The absorbed fluid allows the clutch to slip during initial engagement so the friction material isn't worn away before it can fully engage. So the wet clutches last longer than the dry type. A thicker fluid would allow more slippage because the laminar film on the plates is thicker but it isn't as easily expelled from the flinging motion of the rotating clutch assembly. That would explain why shifts are smoother with the heavy shockproof. But friction material particles are better suspended in the fluid too which means the worn away particles make their way back in between the clutch plates and friction discs easier. Over time this becomes the "muck" everyone seems to worry so much about. And to a lesser degree, the fluid will tansfer a little heat away from the clutch. | ||
| Charley |
Blake. Yes you're right i never seen a tractor trans but my point was it's as far away from a sportbiketrans as from a tractor trans(bad explaining from my side, but you get the point) I don't believe that the stator was damaged due to the oil , not in a million years. This is just not possible period , anyone who claims it is not telling the truth. O.K. it's a little stange oil to put near a clutch but it surley keeps the trans in tiptop shape and a little cleaning once in a while suits me better than a worn out trans. I guess red line stopped recomending it to avoid false claims/bad advertisement. I'm a proffesional mechanic and stubborn as hell but i know what i'm doing and do it well(ask around) And sure use what you want but don't burn some product because you heard and saw something. Kind regards Charley | ||
| Blake |
Charley, I've seen too many high mileage Harleys that have run nothing but the Sport Trans that have had no transmission problems whatsoever. I don't buy that a suspended solid will provide any better protection compared to a properly maintained synthetic gear oil. Maybe you should explain the huge differences between UJM sportbike, or cruiser for that matter, transmissions and our Buells' Sportster trannies. Are the UJM trannies not stressed as much as a Buell tranny? What primarily do you see the shockproof protecting, gearteeth, dogs, forks, bearings? You say that it is "not possible period" for caked on solids to damaged the stator. Then answer me the following: 1. Doesn't the stator generate a lot of heat? 2. Isn't it vitally necessary to remove excess heat from the stator? 3. Doesn't the primary/tranny fluid act to remove excess heat from the stator? 4. Could not a layer of caked on goo degrade the ability of the oil to conduct heat from the stator? The report I saw claimed the stator was covered with caked on green stuff, that appeared identical to the stuff caked onto the clutch. If that were true, it certainly seems possible that the caked on stuff could be responsible for the stator overheating and subsequently failing. It certainly doesn't seem beyond the realm of possibility as you contend. You just won the BadWeB Poet of the Month award.  I seriously believe that Redline wouldn't recommend something different for our bikes if there weren't a darn good technical reason. I see two VERY good reasons to NOT use the shockproof in my Buell. I've seen absolutely no deficiencies in using good synthetic 75W90 gear lubes; they contain plenty of extreme pressure compounds to protect our transmissions, and they won't foul up anything. | ||
| Hootowl |
I used the shockproof because I thought it might (and probably does) provide a better cushion for the primary chain. But then there's my melted stator. I can't really blame the shockproof for that, as I have to evidence. What I can say is that every time I have drained it, it was brown from water fouling where the sportrans has not been. That's my primary (no pun intended) reason for switching back to sportrans and eventually the redline 75W90. I've been told I'm wrong, but I still think the shockproof runs a few degrees cooler than sportrans, and it's just enough to lower the temp to the point that the condensation doesn't boil out. Don't bother confusing me with facts, as I've already formed my opinion. | ||
| Charley |
Blake , thanks for the award it's on display. I'm a bit busy in the shop but i will answer but what is "UJM" ? (don't pick on me i'm dutch) A stator basicly gets warm when it gets hot you got a problem somewhere else , it's generating energy wich has to be transported when it's not transported to the rectifier> battery it will store the energy and try to loose it , this is the heat wich destroy's the stator | ||
| Hootowl |
UJM is Universal Japanese Motorcycle. | ||
| Vwolf |
Blake thanks for the reply..yes the clutch is suffering..I had to tighten up on the cable.My m2 is stock so no loops but ya smooth is better and no more clutch poppin for me ..thanks just orderd the crossroads circular air intake (black) a new item..Vwolf chicago windy city |
