| Author | Message | ||
     Cruisin |
Thanks to all the great help here I was able to determine that my primary chain was loose. (For those wondering, if you're getting a knocking that you can feel in the footpegs, that's probably it). My question is this. If I don't have time to actually pull the cover off and measure the travel, is there anything wrong with loosening the nut, giving the screw a 1/8 of a turn, and tightening it back up...and then riding it to see if the knocking stops? I know people have said that if it's too tight the bike wouldn't shift right...assuming I go in small increments (1/8 turns) is it okay to adjust it just far enough for the knock to stop, assuming it still shifts okay? | ||
| Whodom |
You might get by with that technique, and you might hose up things badly. All you have to remove is two Torx screws and the small inspection cover (~1 minute tops) to get to the chain so you can measure the slack. It's important that it be adjusted correctly: too loose you get noise, vibration, hard to find neutral. Too tight and you can destroy BIG parts. The chain usually has at least one or two "tight" spots and that's where you need to take your measurement. I just re-adjusted mine on my S3 last night; it took 15 minutes tops to do it correctly. | ||
| M1combat |
No. A primary chain that's too tight will have VERY DIRE AND EXPENSIVE consequences... Once the chain gets to where it's close to the proper adjustment a 1/8 turn at the adjuster will have a large effect. Too loose is better than too tight, but "proper" is best. I'm curious... It only takes a few moments to remove the inspection cover... Why risk it? The issue is that as the bike warms up the chain gets TIGHTER due to the expansion of the clutch basket and primary sprocket. Also... Be sure that you adjust the chain at the "tight spot". Personally, I feel that if it's loose, it's better to wait until you have the time to do it properly than to risk making it too tight. That said though, you don't want to leave it loose for a long time either... If you KNOW that it's too loose, maybe giving it a 1/8th to 1/16th turn wouldn't cause a problem but what if that's not the problem? Your primary chain tension is actually good and you tighten it a little thinking it's loose. BAD things can happen. VERY bad. | ||
| Cruisin |
The chain is definitely too loose. I attempted to adjust it when I changed the primary fluid and while learning about how much each turn adjusts the tensioner I lost my place on where it was to begin with. I thought I had adjusted it to spec but then the knocking began. I've felt a loose chain before and I can identify it immediately. My thought was if it's knocking, it's too loose. 1/8 of a turn shouldn't overtighten it since the specs on the tension give a range of acceptable play (the range should not have a knock at all, right?). Basically I was thinking of giving it a tiny turn, ride it to work...if it knocks give it a tiny turn and ride home (3 miles each way). It takes 10 seconds to adjust it each time that way. If it's a hair loose and a tiny turn gets rid of the knocking... But that's why I ask...there are those that know more than I... | ||
| Reepicheep |
The only problem with that is that if the chain is no longer in spec, or if you just "miss" one of the subjective measurements. The way you will discover that this is the case, is by the fact that you just destroyed either your transmission bearing, your crank bearing, your transmission input shaft, your cases, or your crank. Or some combination of the above. That's a pretty expensive litmus test compared to removing a couple allen head bolts :0 (but I have thought the same thing you are thinking more then once  ). | ||
| M1combat |
Well... Like Whodom said you may indeed get by with that technique. Try it if you like. Just tight enough to stop knocking doesn't mean it's adjusted properly. It means it's just tight enough so it doesn't knock. Why not just adjust it once the right way and be done with it? Why does it matter where it was to begin with? The manual lists a travel distance for the primary chain both cold and warm. One of those (I can't remember which one it is) coincides with the width of the chain itself. I adjust it like that. I'll have to read the manual again to remember if it was warm or cold but I open the inspection cover and adjust until I can hold the chain up and the lower edge of the chain is in a certain spot. I then push the chain down and the upper edge moves to the same spot. I believe my method is easy and leaves the chain just a TAD loose just in case I haven't found the tightest spot. Loose is a LOT better than replacing cranks, crank bearings, jugs, rods, pistons, transmissions, clutch baskets and whatever else can be destroyed by being too tight. It takes just a few more seconds. Take the dang inspection cover off. You DON'T want to deal with the consequences of a too tight primary chain. That's an adjustment you don't really want to fudge too much and if you DO... Make SURE you're fudging on the loose side. The ONLY way to do that is to open the inspection cover. Why do it the wrong way 2-3 times instead of the right way once? TWO T27's... That's it. | ||
| Cruisin |
I've got the manual, so I'll check. A visual like the width of the chain is nice - thanks for the tip M1...I had a hard time getting the tape measure inside the case to check the distance. And thanks for the Reep...good to see I'm not a bad person for thinking about it...well...at least not the only bad person  | ||
| Whodom |
I'm glad you posted this question and I read this thread. M1combat's post made a light bulb go off in my head. I had only measured the chain slack pushing upwards on the primary chain. I had either forgotten or just never had read the manual correctly that you also had to include the slack in the downwards direction in the measurement. I went back and checked my primary chain this afternoon (bike hot) and it was approximately 1/8" -3/16" too much. It took about a quarter of a turn to bring it into spec. Quick test ride, and I found a noticable reduction in vibration in the handlebars. I guess it pays to read the directions in the manual step-by-step every time... | ||
| Starter |
This brings back the days of the aftermarket manual cam chain tensioner on my old SRAD GSX-R750. Same posts, same comments regarding nipping the adjustment up (to stop the clicking in the case of the suzuki) blind without removing the bodywork, airboix and cam cover. Many people went the quick method and lots of times they stuffed the crank bearing and chain guides. Take the time, pull the cover and do it properly. As has been said, it takes only a quarter hour to do it good and proper. On the GSX-R the proper process took a over and hour. In fact most checked the valve clearances once they were in there. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Cruisin - I've adjusted mine several times recently due to trouble shooting a noise and replacing a chain tensioner. Doing the adjustment through the small inspection cover is easy enough. I pull the spark plugs (a few seconds with a 5/8" open end wrench), put the transmission in 5th gear, and move the wheel in small increments until I find a tight spot. I mark the tight spot with a permanent ink Sharpie (wipe the oil off and mark and "X" on the side of a link). Go around until you find the mark again as there may be another tighter spot. I also marked the loosest spot with an "O". The two spots I marked remained visible and valid for tightest and loosest spots through two clutch removals. That surprised me, I thought they might wear off and/or move around with the change in chain/sprocket positions. It really helps if you can get someone to stand behind the bike to rotate the tire with their hands, they can control the chain advance much better and you can test by lifting the chain with your finger. On my chain, the noise was I was hearing did not go away until I had the total up and down movement in the tight spot down to 3/8". And I was pushing on the chain very firmly with my fingertip. And at that point I had about 3/4" of up and down in the loose spot. Push up very firmly with your finger tip when taking the measurement. Go easy on the cover screws when putting them back, they seem to get regular mention for breaking. The torque specs on those is 40 inch (not foot!) pounds, if they got overtightened at all they can be very hard to break loose. Push the cover in against the o-ring and get both screws in light contact then tighten them is a couple of steps. Jack | ||
| Cruisin |
Thanks for the input...Whodom - I'm glad my question got answers that helped you too... The total job can be done in less than 15 minutes...more like 5. Put it in neutral and put the kickstand on a 2x4 so I could see better. I took the two bolts off and took a look. M1's suggestion of doing the width of the chain seemed to be right (cold the variance should be 3/8 to 1/2). Since it's in neutral I just hold the rag over the hole and give the starter a quick push, just to cycle the chain. I did that a couple times to find a tight spot or two, then adjusted it so that the bottom of the chain when pushed up was at the same position as the top of the chain when pushed down. Snugged it up a hair (chain would disappear from view when I pushed it up) and put the cover on. Initial ride to work gave no knock in the case...and no problems shifting, so I think it's loose enough. (Message edited by cruisin on August 26, 2005) | ||
| M1combat |
For what it's worth, the primary chain seems to be right at 3/8" thick. | ||
| Buellistic |
5/8" to 3/4" inch on the tight spot(primary chain) !!! In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Jackbequick |
I think M1combat was talking about the physical heighth of the chain as seen through the inspection cover, not the amount of movement. I agree with your recommended measurement range, unfortunately the amount of eccentricity that exists in the primary drive on my M2 is such that when I set it to that range in the tightest spot, I wind up with a lot more than that in the loosest spot and it starts slapping the case. So I've got mine adjusted down to about 3/8-1/2" in the tight spot. Jack | ||
| Buellistic |
Jackbequick: Adjust to 5/8"(primary) on the tight spot ... As long as it is within 5/8" to 3/4" inch the adjustment is within specifications !!! IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE THIS, then check when it is AT OPERATING TEMPERATURE(HOT !!!, HOT !!!, HOT !!!) ... In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Jackbequick |
Yeah, I did check it hot, it has some (but not much) play left when well warmed up (after a long ride). I knew that the primary chains are tighter when warm, I either read that here or somewhere. Just out of curiosity, what do you think that 5/8-3/4" measurement goes down to when it is all warmed up, that's a useful number and I don't think I ever seen it mentioned. Jack | ||
| Buellistic |
Jackbequick: "i" have used this 5/8 to 3/4 inch cold(on tight spot) from the days of the IRON HEAD XL's ... It came from the KR primary spec's ... In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Cmm213 |
I just adjusted my primary a few days ago and it was bad, way out of spec. I bought the bike a 03 9s last weekend and spent all week adding parts and doing a overhaul and now it shifts great and nothing clunks or makes any noise. The steering head was loose to, very clean bike but the owner was not that good with tools. | ||
| Vaneo1 |
I dont know how old this thread is but my primary chain on my XB12R is too tight. It has no play when pushed up and has about the chain width of play when pushed down. Can someone educate me as to where I can find the primary chain adjuster? The owners manual doesnt cover primary chain adjustment, only INSPECTION.  | ||
| Buellistic |
Vaneo1: Harley-Davidson TECHNICANS adjust every thing like the SPORSTERS and BIG TWINS which is too tight !!! The chain adjuster works just like the TUBE FRAME BUELLs ... 5/8ths on the tight spot(5/8" to 3/4" is within SPECS !!!) ... In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Jackbequick |
"my primary chain on my XB12R is too tight..." The adjuster is on the bottom of the primary cover in about the center. It is a large locking nut on a threaded adjuster that has 1/4" Allen head socket in the end of it. The muffler may be in the way of using an Allen wrench, you can cut a short (3/8" or so long) piece off a 1/4" Allen wrench or grind the end off of a 1/4" screwdriver bit, stick that in the socket, and turn it with a box end wrench. It won't take much, 1/8th of a turn or so goes a long ways. Jack |
