| Author | Message | ||
     Kootenay |
If I stop my 03 XB9R hard with less than about a third of a tank of fuel, it will stall out. Seems like fuel starvation to me, with all the fuel sloshing to the front of the frame--but surely Buell has some system in place to prevent this? I was speaking with some dealer techs about this issue, and I got various answers from "They all do that" to "there's a little white plastic tube attached to the fuel pump, if it's broken it'll cause that problem." My fuel pump has been replaced once--when I bought the bike, the dealer couldn't start it, and their tech replaced the pump to get the bike to run--I dunno if that has anything to do with it, but... Anyways, not a big deal, but I'm planning to take the bike to a dealer in September for some unrelated warranty work (I have no local dealers--this one is 8 hours away), and I thought that while I was there I'd get them to look into it. Problem is that their service department has told me that, even if their tech can duplicate the problem (stalling under braking), if they open it up and find nothing wrong, they'll charge me for the labour even if they can't fix the problem--but if they find a problem and fix it, that would be under warranty. Does this sound right to you guys? | ||
| Buellshyter |
No, it doesn't sound right. If they can duplicate the problem but don't have a solution and want to charge you, I'd tell them to kiss your •••. That doesn't even make sense. It would be one thing if they couldn't see the problem. | ||
| Bruceclay |
I can to that with mine too but only when I'm close to reserve. Like 110 miles on the tank or more. I has always done it on my 12R and it did it on my 9R. | ||
| Tobandeira |
all of them do it.... its a kind of an unforgivable missconception, though never saw a buell responsible assuming it.... sometimes i think they take us all by retarded people........... | ||
| Tomd |
Hi, Wonder if the "tip-over and kill the motor" switch is lose or improperly positioned? Might want to check that. Tom | ||
| Izzinya |
bank angel sensor is what im thinking also Izzinya | ||
| Tahoe_xbuelligan |
mine does not do it | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Its not a fuel starvation problem, its the bank angle sensor causing it. If you look at the FI system, you have an aweful lot of fuel from the pump to the injectors to go through before the injectors end up sucking air. | ||
| Bruceclay |
There's no doubt that what I am referring to is a fuel thing. I even kept it from dying one time by cranking on the throttle a bunch of times. The bank angle sensor is an electrical switch. Unless it shuts off the engine by turning off the fuel pump this is not what I have experienced. I haven't looked at the wiring diagram but I would assume the BAS would cut off the ignition. It is certainly true that what I mean is it takes some real front tire ripping nearly a stoppie kind of action to cause it. | ||
| Kootenay |
Wycked, I have checked the bank angle sensor--I thought that might be the problem, but it is properly mounted and seems to work correctly. No, the problem is definitely fuel related--it won't stall if the tank is full, it may stall if the bike is half-full, it will definitely stall if the tank is near or on reserve. I know there is a lot of fuel in the lines--what I feel is dropping is fuel pressure, not volume (the fuel in the line must be pressurized for the injectors to work). If this is a standard Buell XB design flaw, well so be it--but I have a hard time believing a bike that is raced at AMA FX level can't be braked hard without stalling! I have heard some other guys have this problem (such as Bruceclay), while many more do not. So OK, the bike has a problem. I feel it should be seen as a warranty issue, and fixed at no charge--and the shop agrees with me. What I don't understand is that if they look for the problem but can't fix it, then they want to bill me for the labour spent looking! (and I did say that I wanted a tech to ride the bike and experience the problem, so they won't think I'm just a hyper-sensitive rider or some kind of squid) | ||
| Blake |
Sounds like a problem that needs resolved to me. | ||
| Buellshyter |
The lean angle sensor will turn the motor off | ||
| Tomzweifel |
I would think there's a baffle just forward and above the fuel pump assembly inside the tank that prevents fuel from sloshing away from the pump. The service manual doesn't show anything inside and I don't have a parts manual. If that was missing, or if the baffle has a (damaged, missing) flapper valve on it, a little bit of a stoppie and no more fuel pressure. Could anybody check a parts manual to see if that's what it looks like in there? | ||
| Buellin_ri |
I have also had this problem on my 9r when in reserve. A little sputter/stall under real hard braking. No big deal with me try not to run in reserve. Could be a baffle, or really low on fuel. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
There's no doubt that what I am referring to is a fuel thing. I even kept it from dying one time by cranking on the throttle a bunch of times. Ah, ok, I have misread the symptoms as it happened, and figured it was the same as when mine would cut out, as well as others, that were being caused by the bank angle sensor. My bad, I know for the race bikes they put "Fuel Foam" in the frames to cut down on the slosh when they are running low, but hadn't realised, it was showing up as an issue on the street. When I stop hard enough to cause it to cut out, there is no stumble, its like hitting the kill switch, in fact I have to flip the ignition off then back on to get it to refire. Like Bruceclay said, its damn near stoppie and sudden stop strength, with the rear unloading enough the bike rocks back and forth. My bad I should have asked more questions before opening my mouth. | ||
| Spike |
My '04 12R will do it and it's definitely not the BAS. I struggled with it quite a bit during my first season with the bike. It drove me nuts. I asked the techs at the local dealer where I worked at the time and I posted here but found no solution. Eventually I gave up and just quit braking as hard. Now I don't usually run into the issue unless I'm breaking in a new set of brake pads without a full tank. FWIW- the problem didn't show up at all when I took the bike to the track . . . mostly because I'm not that fast. I'd really like to hear a response from Anonymous on this issue, but I expect it to be ignored just like the XB12 race ECM issue. *Edit: I know it sucks, but the dealer has their hands tied on the warranty issue. They can't get paid for the warranty claim unless they can demonstrate that something on the motorcycle was broken/defective. If they pull the bike apart and can't find a problem they'll be stuck with the bill. (Message edited by spike on August 21, 2005) | ||
| Tobandeira |
come on..... i tell you, it is a known issue...... trojan or bits4buell ( i donīt remember wish one) even sell a special foam to put in the bottom of the tank to prevent fuel starvation and pressure drops.... since i got my xb12r i never ride any other and i own more bikes... what i can not accept is to get conned by the people in wish i put my trust on in the first place...... and this case is one of those and it goes up until the top of Buell admin..... they simply do not admit it....... and end of question..... if it where politics we would call it real politik..... as it is business i donīt realy know how to call it...... | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
It is a "Fuel Thing" and yes there is a new fuel pump to fix it. The new pump helps to prevent a lean condition caused by caveatiion when the fuel level is low or during hard braking followed by a sharp RH turn. Per the Buell Instructors the AFV starts to (Drive Up) correcting for a lean condition before the low fuel light comes on. We found out on our race bike, replaced the pump and all is well, We also cut and installed two pices of fuel cell foam forward and to the right of the pump. Hope all this helps Terry | ||
| Izzinya |
just read this in another thread http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/32777/141540.html?1124938198 Buelldyno_guy (Side note) there is also a new fuel pump available that helps prevent a lean condition caused by the pump caveating when the fuel level is low or during hard braking followed by a sharp RH turn. Per the Buell Instructors the AFV starts to (Drive Up) correcting for a lean condition before the low fuel light comes on. We found out on our race bike, replaced the pump and all is well, Hope all this helps Terry just a thought Izzinya | ||
| Diablobrian |
How much does the 05+ spec fuel pump cost? and does it run noticeably quieter than the early fuel pumps as an added bonus? The one they installed in our race bike seems to but I figure that could be a fluke. | ||
| Cruisin |
Price - not sure...Daves? Quieter - they're supposed to be... | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
The are sort of hard to come by, but be patient it took us two weeks to get ours. Yes they are quieter and when you see the new old pump side by side you will understand how the new one directs the pressure relief valve discharge back to the pump pick-up. We still use the two pices of foam also. I posted some of the same information on the other thread, becuse one bike had some issues with an intermitent lean condition. Terry | ||
| Monorad |
my bike wants to stall during hard stops or stoppies when i'm on reserve. it makes sense, and i don't think its a manufacturing defect. i just blip the throttle to try to keep it alive. | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
I am not into starting some kind of issue here, but the design of the old pump was changed to previent low fuel levels from driving the AFV up so high that sometimes it caused fouled plugs after filling up with fuel. It was our racing experence and what would happen after lap 5 that had us contact with both Hal's and Buell Racing Department where again both Terry from Hal's and Henry Duga fron Buell brought it all to light. During your hard stops when you have less than 1/2 tank the fuel runs away from the pump. The new design helps with this issue. ... Terry | ||
| 99buellx1 |
Pump part number: P0130.02A8A Retail price: $303.93 |
