| Author |
Message |
    
Oldman
| | Posted on Sunday, March 03, 2002 - 12:06 pm: | 
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guess it could go back to whether it was built on a monday morning or a friday afternoon or somewhere in between. |
Jerome
| | Posted on Sunday, March 03, 2002 - 04:27 pm: |
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Aaron : my M2 is pulling very strong at all rpms, it's just a question of curiosity on how it would behave with a different inlet track of the RRC aircleaner. A system with a dynamically changing length would probably be something much easier to do on the inlet side than on the exhaust header side (metal below with the right diameter, with a few guides and a small electric motor to drive it in length, electric motor driven by engine rpms, thus by the ignition module, does it sound fine ?!). |
Aaron
| | Posted on Sunday, March 03, 2002 - 07:30 pm: |
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Sounds complicated!
I generally use cardboard and duct tape to do intake length experiments. |
Henrik
| | Posted on Sunday, March 03, 2002 - 10:38 pm: |
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Jerome; sounds like something that's gonna fail and leave you stranded when you're furthest away from home 
K.I.S.S. really *is* a good principle.
Henrik |
Wet4uracing
| | Posted on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 05:17 am: |
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Aaron, Are you saying that the total length from valve to atmosphere was 5 inches ? Does the force winder adaptor act as a velocity stack? Would you expect the volume of the adaptor (not so much the length) to be proportional to the rpm range?...............Stu. |
Aaron
| | Posted on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 08:53 am: |
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Stu ... you lost me. I said 5"? I've never measured it, but my guess is it's much longer than that. If Denish's formulas are correct (I've never tried to prove that they are or aren't and I've had mixed results with his exhaust formulas) then it's probably catching the 4th or even 5th wave would be my guess.
And what adaptor do you refer to? |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 03:55 pm: |
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There is also the issue of a secondary wave instigated at the intake manifold "Y" convergence. |
Wet4uracing
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 02:56 am: |
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Aaron, Sorry to confuse an allready confusing subject.My interest lies with a twin cv carb conversion.For a lack of any real understanding on this subject, I will just have to fudge it and see what happens.If you have any suggestions on inlet tract length,I would be eager to hear from you.Otherwise my plan is to make up two separate manifolds to suit the standard rubber carby adaptor.The rear cyclinder would be fed from the carby on the clutch side and the front cyclinder would be fed from the throtle side.I will then just suck it and see what happens next.I dont have any plans as yet for an air cleaner setup,but will probably machine up something.Do you think it is critical to get the adaptor(carby to air filter snorkel)length right or, is that just a fine tuning adjustment(ie. velocity stacks)..............Stu. |
Jerome
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 12:59 pm: |
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Aaron and Henrik : the variable-length inlet tube I was speaking about was by no mean to be used by Aaron on dyno runs. Carboard and duct tape are the right tools for dyno tests, I entirely agree. I was mentioning this due to the fact that a given inlet length optimally works for a given rpm. So why not trying to vary the inlet length automatically, by coupling the engine rpms and the inlet length ? Technically speaking it's not difficult at all, the question is "is it worth trying" ?! How much could be gained ? Do we speak about a few tenths of hp or a few ponnies here ? |
Loki
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 02:57 pm: |
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Not knocking Jerome here
Hasn't Lockheed already done something similar? Just for a different purpose. Could we call it the Force/RRC SR(-71) intake |
Loki
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 03:01 pm: |
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Aaron,
may I say thank you and tip my hat to you
That choppy little dyno curve looks awfully familar to me. Now I need to go pull the thing of the side of the bike and look to see what I got. |
Carlost
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 08:10 pm: |
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Aaron:
Isn't this kinda misleading as it's hard to replicate let's say a 100MPH wind and its impact on the Forcewinder? Maybe turbulence turns the Forcewinder into a real piece of caca (which is my theory BTW).
When is Dynojet gonna put together a portable dyno so we can weed this out? 
Carlos
Hey Somebody's Gotta Be a Wiseass |
Aaron
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 08:49 pm: |
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"Maybe turbulence turns the Forcewinder into a real piece of caca (which is my theory BTW)."
I always suspected that, too, until I got one (quite by accident, it was on Susy's S1 when we bought it). I put it on my M2, since the race kit filter was banging my knee, and much to my surprise, the M2 picked up top speed. So I changed my mind. |
Skulley
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 09:59 pm: |
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replicate a 100MPH wind?
Not sure how a dyno works but what if? you recreate a 100mph wind by using a lawn blower.
Oops, wrong place to post. or is it? Aaron have you tried it? |
Henrik
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 10:27 pm: |
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Could the narrow tunnel and it's right angle to the intake air flow cause a "suction" effect on the float bowl vent. Similar to when the airflow in the venturi creates a vacuum above the piston in the CV carb.
The much larger opening in the older Force models would prevent such a vacuum build-up.
Henrik |
Aaron
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 10:43 pm: |
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Skulley: there's an easier way, but I'm sworn to secrecy on it.
Henrik: that'd be my guess, too. |
Loki
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 11:47 pm: |
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Hmmm,
I wonder if this could be a problem with those Hyper-charger gizmos also? |
Artful
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 01:13 am: |
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I have had no such problem with my hypercharger, but then again I have a DDFI bike.
Art..... |
Carlost
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 12:10 pm: |
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posercharger... |
Carlost
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 12:13 pm: |
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Aaron:
Does your version have the big cylindrical filter or the regular conical-shaped one?
Hey don't they have big fans on movie sets to simulate wind? |
Carlost
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 12:15 pm: |
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Aaron:
I now have a regular SE round air cleaner on my M2. Would you be interested in testing it? I have a Buell race air cleaner which I got used and I gonna put it on. |
Buells2t
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2002 - 08:19 pm: |
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Sometimes the butterflies on the Hyperchargers interfere with the air velocity causing problems with slide lift. (The slide lifts on pressure differences based on the velocity of air under itVS atmospheric pressure.) Removing the vacuum to the butterflies so they stay open usually cures this problem (don’t leave the vacuum line open).
To accurately simulate airflow over a bike going down the road on a Dyno the Dyno would have to be in a wind tunnel.
The bodywork, forks, … and most other parts at the front of the bike can have an affect on the airflow into the intake.
Blowing a fan at the air box is not an accurate way to simulate the bike going down the road.
S2Mike |
Loki
| | Posted on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 07:02 pm: |
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Aaron,
Ahhh again I must thank thee.... I have the small passage Forcewinder on my bike. I have been running a 1/2 inch spacer with it for special reasons. Looking at the gaskets everything lined up and all. So last year my a/f guage would go extreme lean when I opened the throttle up, eventually catching up. So as an experiment I removed some material from the spacer and opened up the vent passage. Made my own gaskets for the set-up and opened(blended) the base of the force to the spacer. Took it out today for the first time with this set-up. Much improved! Throttle response is crisper and the guage is steady. Shows just a little rich and just drops into the stoich indication on heavy excelleration. With no drops into a lean condition.
Loki |
Jrh
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 05:33 pm: |
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I bought a Force sidewinder set-up in June 2000,
never used it because i liked the looks of the Buell c.fiber ham can.After reading all Aarons
excellent posts on the vent problems i opened the
plastic package mine was still in and found even
one that old had the small machined vent style.No
problem because its an easy fix but maybe all you
guys,even if you purchased yours years ago should
check yours to be safe. GREAT work Dynoman Aaron!
Thats what makes this site the best Buell info
available |
Oldman
| | Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 07:32 pm: |
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hey aaron,
when i take my force off to grind out the dent
1. do i have to reset the air fuel mixture.
2. is a new gasket needed
3. any precautions??? |
Aaron
| | Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 08:21 pm: |
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Hey Neil (I refuse to call you old!),
1. If in fact your Forcewinder is causing the high rpm leanness like the 2 I've tested, opening up this vent will make it go substantially richer. For reference, this bike above went from slightly lean with a 200 main all the way to slightly rich with a 180 main just from making this change. In other words, ideal jetting probably moved 6 jet sizes ... that's a ton.
2. Not unless it's torn.
3. Use a ball end hex key and try not to scratch it. Remove the element before grinding. Clean it good after grinding (brake cleaner then compressed air works). |
Oldman
| | Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 09:49 pm: |
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thanks for the feedback aaron. i know i have a 195 in there right now |
Skulley
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 03:23 am: |
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Aoron, Will this bowl vent finding have any effect on a FI bike? |
Aaron
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 08:59 am: |
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I wouldn't think so ... since it has no bowl ... but honestly, I've never really looked at an FI bike. |
Lsr_Bbs
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 10:04 am: |
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Skulley, no. DDFI bikes don't have a carb; so not bowl vent exists.
============
Aaron...curious, does the bowl vent need to be in the intake stream (what does the stock, M2 snorkels look like?)??? That is, is the design of the bowl vent *meant* to be influenced by the intake...or does it just need to be open to atmospheric pressure so the bowl can fill???
Neil Garretson
X0.5 |
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