| Author | Message | ||
     Jeffb |
M2Ffast S&S offers assembled, balanced crankshaft assemblies for Buells. S&S also has stock replacement rods for XL/Buell's. Give them a call and talk to the tech dept. 608-627-1497 Jeffb | ||
| Jmartz |
SEric: I remeber reading and article about a NE shop that modified BT HD's. With an identical kit (heads, cam, exhaust etc.) they provided, when installed in various evo powered bikes, they observed what they considered large differences in peak power. A careful inspection of a subset of these motors revealed large variances in the true and balance of their lower ends. They mentioned in the article finding a factory assembled crankshaft with a runout of .012 when the rated tolerance shoud be .002. They concluded that overall a motor would produce several more HP, vibrate less and last longer if fitted with a properly assembled rotating assembly. Buell motors with their lighter flywheels and shorter stroke should suffer less from this disease but I doubt they are immune to it. The gamble is: If you have a really bad motor, at the edge or outside of the tolerance range, you would see a benefit, otherwise you wold just spend money unnecessarily. With max power outputs well published, if you a have say.., a Nallin top end and the mandatory intake and exhaust mods and carb readjustments, if your bike is not making 100 RWHP then looking into the lower end might be warranted. Jose | ||
| Sarodude |
Any info on CASE quality? I'm up on various procedures to correct f'd up cases on simpler designs - but a common casting for the crankcase and gearbox makes lotsa things tougher... -Saro | ||
| Jmartz |
I understand HD linebores the the crank supports but refrains from doing so for the cam cover. Crankpin oil is fed through the gear shaft, a poor fit on the gear cover could spell disaster. As to the BT motor being 2 peices, I would not be too concerned since the primary drive can easily take a degree or two of misalignment. Primary losses are high with a chain plus a compensating sprocket and a hughe clutch basket, not to mention the large diameter magnet wheel. + or - a degree is not good but I don't see how it could matter. | ||
| Rapid49 |
How do I distinguish between a thunderstorm head and a lightning head? Evan | ||
| Jmartz |
Evan: TS heads are painted flat black, the rear one has a machined hole for a FI sensor (unless very eary), valves are bigger and set deeper (hence a larger CC) and I think they have smaller exhaust ports. Jose | ||
| Ralph |
Noticably smaller. PN will be different as well, don't know off hand what they are though. Kinda like seeing the difference between a Thunderstorm and a Lightning piston  bighairyralph | ||
| Rapid49 |
Ralph ,that sounds very simple but to do that I would have to look at both.I have nothing to compare to.Evan | ||
| Aaron |
Umm, I'm doing this from memory so don't quote me, but I seem to remember T-storm valve sizes are 1.810 & 1.590. I don't know the Lightning numbers but they're most definitely smaller. I can measure when I get home if I remember. | ||
| Buelliedan |
I think he's askin how to tell the difference when they are on a bike. You tech heads!! Evan, as Jose said, the Thunderstorms are all black crinkle coat paint. The Lightnings are black with polished cooling fins. | ||
| Aaron |
Oh. Yeah. Okay. Lightning heads come in many flavors. The Buell Lightning heads as fitted to '97-'98 M2's and '96-'98 S1's have a silver finish and are single plugged. HD also offers Lightning heads in the P&A catalog, either silver or black w/highlighted fins and either single or dual plugged. The Sporster 1200S has essentially dual plugged Lightning heads with highlighted fins. The Blast carries a flat black Lightning head with a couple of Blast-specific external features. The Lightning head is a small chamber head that yields about 10:1 compression with a flat top in a 600cc cylinder. In the short-stroke Blast, they use a domed T-storm piston with the Lightning head to get back some of the compression the short stroke taketh away, it ends up at 9.2:1. Yes, T-storm heads are generally a black wrinkle finish without highlighted fins. I've heard people claim they have t-storm heads that came in silver finish, but I've never actually seen and verified it. Certainly the vast majority are black. These heads have bigger valves, a bigger chamber to allow those bigger valves without shrouding, and dome piston to get the compression back to 10:1. AW | ||
| Jmartz |
I had mine dipped in carburator cleaner and then beadblasted. What gives them away is the screw hole on the rear. | ||
| Jeffb |
Jose, I got your phone message yesterday and I have been trying to call you back. S&S may be able to help you out. You should call back to S&S and ask for Charlie Hadayia. He has some ideas on how to build what you are asking for. Talk to you later. Jeff Bailey I | ||
| Rapid49 |
I got to look at an actual thunderstorm head today and unfortunately my heads were the original lightning heads. I plan to buy a set of thunderstorm heads and a nallins 1250 kit. Is there any reason to buy aftermarket pushrods? If I stay with stock pushrods, I will only need two. | ||
| Ralph |
Unless Brian uses some funky gaskets to get his squish right there's no reason I can think of to use aftermarket pushrods. He would be the one to ask about that. If turns out you are going to stick with stock ones let me know, I've got some. What'cha gonna do with the Lightning heads? I may be interested. I need more heads to hack up. bighairyralph | ||
| Blake |
Rapid49: Brian may take your lightning heads in trade for Nallinized T-Storms. Sorry BHR. Just trying to help Rapid get some mo power!!! | ||
| Ralph |
Didn't hurt me a bit bighairyralph by the way, you need to do that over in the apology vault, this is BIG mechanical parts | ||
| Jeffsd |
Kris a.k.a M2fast, welcome to the rod knock/blown engine club. Unfortunately our number seems to be growing. For the sake of the other readers, I won't re-hash my delima. You can find my (long) story on the last few pages of this listing. The readers of this site have been a great help. I have also talked to Brian at Nallin Racing. He was full of friendly advice. GOod luck and let me know what you decide to do. I'm gonna wait and have mine done in a few months. BHR, thanks for the advice. Jeff | ||
| M2fast |
Jeff, From what I understand, this problem in general is pretty rare. I've still yet to actually pull the engine apart so I don't want to say that it's definately a rod bearing but it sure sounds like it. This is my theory (it could well be way off from what really happened)I think one of the rollers possibly came out of the cage creating the initial noise I heard. Eventually I believe that the uneven spacing on the 2 closest rollers to the first led to their demise and so forth until there are enough rollers gone and I have a much larger problem. As for what led to this I don't really know. I used Mobil1 15W50 and changed the oil every 1500 to 2000 miles because I was paranoid about oiling problems. What really worries me is not finding a glaringly obvioius reason for the failure... Hopefully by the end of spring I'll have a proper diagnosis and be on my way to riding again. Any more tips and advice greatly appreciated, Kris | ||
| Jeffsd |
Hopefully some of you will find this as amusing as I did. I just left the S&S web site where I found a 91 inch longblock for Buells. 110 hp and 100 ft/lbs of torque on the dyno. There is one small catch. The price. A cool $7424.17 (I don't think that is in pesos) By the way, that does not include trans, ignition or charging system. I'm still hoping to win the lotto. Jeff | ||
| Blake |
Makes that 100" S3 with Baker 6-speed that "someone" just snagged for a paltry nine large seem criminal don't it? | ||
| M2fast |
LOL! I see that Jeff and myself are pursuing similar avenues for a sulution to the bottom end problem. I was on their site the other day and saw the same thing. That's more than I paid for my bike! If I see anything reasonably interesting (read:affordable) I'll post it here to let you know. Sounds like "someone" got a killer S3 for a great price. Must be a hell of a fun ride! Kris | ||
| Chrism |
Aaron, Did you ever check/compare port volumes between Lightning heads and the T-storm heads? I'm searching for a set of unmolested lightning heads. If you or any one else in the group would like to be relieved of a pair, please contact me. Also what kind of flow numbers do the t-storm heads produce stock and lightly modified? Boxerkid@aol.com | ||
| Jmartz |
Chris: Buell motors are severly restricted when it comes to breathing. They respond very well to larger valves and individual runner heads. Ported S1 heads with intake and exhaust mods and optimized timing and carburation yield RWHP in the 90's. A few more from T-storm heads (100's), more with larger valved T-strom heads/hurricane pistons and 110's with the 1248 kit. | ||
| Pammy |
Jmartz, Smadd has 113 with the stock pistons(stock displacement)113.8 to be exact last time I was a witness. | ||
| Jmartz |
Pammy: I assume that was a ported thunderstorm motor? Stock cams? What carb? | ||
| Buellzebub |
Pammy: i'm not sure if you posted them before, but could you please give us a basic rundown on what was done to smadd's engine, and was it still reliable on the street? thanks in advance | ||
| Pammy |
Thunderstorm heads, ported by Cycle-Rama. Cyl's bored .010 over(H.D. pistons) for clean up. 585 Red Shift cams. Roller rockers. Crane ign. Mikuni HSR 42. Dyno-tuned by Cycle-Rama. As far as I know the bike runs perfectly still. Last time he called me about it was because he wants to get it on the dyno again because it "feels faster than ever." The bottom end had about 30k on it at the time. I believe Smadd has over 40k now. | ||
| Blake |
I witnessed that 113.8 dyno run. It was the real deal. I then followed Steve around town. Seemed he was having lots of trouble with his front tire. Never did want to use it much. Don't know why, looked 'bout brand new to me. | ||
| Chrism |
Thanks for the input. Still curious about flow numbers for the various combinations of heads and valve sizes. Thanks again, Chris |
