| Author | Message | ||
     Aaron |
I just changed Susy's front rotor the other day. Being a PM wheel with no paint to damage, I just heated the hub with a torch, keeping a finger on the bearing to make sure I didn't get it hot. 4 of the bolts came out by just whacking the ratchet handle. The other rounded. I used a 3" cut off saw to cut a big notch in it (which did cut in to the carrier a little) and then an impact driver and got it out. But yeah, setting a nut on there and welding in the middle of it ought to work too. That was going to be my next method. | ||
| Al_Lighton |
Henrik, Welding the nut to the screw head was the only thing that worked for me. I beat the crap out of the screws with a punch, destroyed the punch and 3 allen bits before I finally gave up and took it to the welder. Al | ||
| Jmartz |
I have removed several like this: Place the wheel flat and smack the cone bolts with a ball peen hammer till the allen hole edge gets distorted. A good 5 or 6 whacks. Then hammer a 1/4 drive allen cut down so no hex is exposed (about 3/8 long) into the hex hole. Put a 3/8 drive converter and use a water pipe to increase leverage. While apling force (carefully) have someone whack at the bar over the bolt. If this fails (has never for me) then with a Dremel cutoff wheel carve a slot on the bolt head and with a chisel (gentle hits form a small hammer) hit down the slot tangent to the axis of rotation. This has never failed. | ||
| Road_Thing |
I've been able to break mine loose by simply rapping the allen wrench counterclockwise with a hammer. If you have the right set of adapters to put the allen bit into a hammer (impact) driver, I'll bet that would work, too. r-t | ||
| Blake |
Henrik: Be sure to video whatever you decide to do. I'm thinking it may end up qualifying for one of those humorous video TV shows. Good luck! Blake (D'OH!! Just realizing he also has the old style front brake on his '97 M2.) | ||
| V2win |
Manoman, we would make great Ford mechanics. Hammers,punches,chisels,hacksaws,torches,... all you need to fix a Ford or a Buell. Its been my experience that those who have tried the hammer/punch technique and failed have simply not hit it HARD enough.  | ||
| Henrik |
Encouraged by great and friendly advice he charged the offending rotor bolts with a battle cry from his cold, forbidding homeland: Hvad drikker Møller - Ølleeeeer ... Result: one rounded out bolt, one bent/twisted allen socket (even cut down), hurt pride. Had the video camera been running you would all have learned a few juicy danish curses as well. Off to Sears for more Allen sockets tomorrow... Henrik | ||
| Court |
Henrik: Let me know if you need tools delivered (not sure if "the big S" is on your line).....it's no problem and I love it when you speak Denmarkian. I need to do this soon and see you as my guinea pig.....or would that be Danish Pig? Anyway.....gimme a call if in the office or cell if'n I can deliver anything...parts, booze or video tape. Court | ||
| Aaron |
Hey guys, I have a question maybe someone here can answer. The new rotor needs these new button head/torx bit rotor bolts. The parts books list the same late model rotor for the M2/X1/S3 (45166-00Y), but the M2's bolts are 3655A and the X1/S3's bolts are 6570Y, superceded to CA001.Q according to my dealer. What's the difference? The dealer only stocked the M2 bolts, so I used those, they seemed to fit and work fine in a PM front wheel on a '96 S1. Hmm. AW | ||
| Henrik |
Aaron: I'll check what P/N Dave King sent me. That odd #: CA001.Q I believe is the new and "improved" part number system - which would mean that they all now use the same type bolt - which would make sense  I'll report back. Henrik | ||
| Jmartz |
Aaron: Colony makes a very nice set of chromed bolts for that application. | ||
| Aaron |
Henrik: but the M2's part number, 3655A, has apparently not been superceded to the new number. So they retain separate part numbers for M2's versus X1/S3's, despite the fact that they use the same rotor. That's what's confusing me. Anything different about the M2 wheel? Aren't PM's now available on domestic M2's? No mention in the book about different bolts for PM's anyway. Jose: chrome shmome! I don't need no stinkin poser chrome on my bikes  ! | ||
| Rempss |
I replaced my rotor screws with 12 point ARP stainless type after the nightmare of torx removal. Antisieze & lockwashers. Looks good on the PM wheel. Should be a breeze to remove if needed. Jeff | ||
| Mikej |
Anybody know the thread size and grade and necessary length and if they have a required shoulder or if the threads run all the way up to the head? I think I'll try to find some square-head bolts or thumbscrews to use instead.  Actually apart from the second sentence this was a somewhat serious question. I'm sort of thinking of swapping out the S2's rotor as well due to the possibility of moving to a wetter/saltier climate in the next few years. | ||
| Jmartz |
I have a set of the stock torx screws and I thought they were just too rough for my $400 gold center Ferodo rotor. Generally I'll go for stainless or titanium but neither is avalable for this application (post cone {"countersunk"}) in buttonhead. | ||
| Rempss |
Mike - Front rotor screws are 5/16UNC x 7/8", though longer (1" if it's all you can find) would be OK, holes go all the way through in PM's anyway. If you like stainless - $1.54 (2-3815) each from Totally Stainless. Grade 8+, used stainless lockwasher also. I spent some time replacing all my external hardware with stainless, I parked under a well-water sprinkler for 5 days last summer, not so easy on the zinc plated stuff. Jeff | ||
| Henrik |
Pumped and with new instruments of destruction in hand I charged the cursed rotor bolts. First bolt came out like nobody's business. Riding the wave of success I went to work on the second bolt ..... and promptly snapped my new Allen socket  Cut groove in the rounded out bolt and went to work with a flat head bit in the impact wrench. Bit went skating across the carrier and was bent to boot. Attacking the bolt with hammer and chisel gave no result. So now I'm having a beer and am off to the welder tomorrow (^&$*&@)*&$&_)_(&!@#~*&%$ Aaron: the torx bolts Dave King sent me are #CA0001.Q. Probably doesn't answer your question though. Henrik | ||
| Jmartz |
Henrik: Do the dremel thing I mentioned above, I guarantee you these bolts will come out. Jose | ||
| Henrik |
Josè: did the dremel and chisel thing already - no good. Thanks though. List of things done so far: 1) Liquid wrench 2) smacked all bolts *hard* with allen bit in the bolt. Used the impact driver and 2 lbs hammer. 3) Electrical impact wrench 4) Ballpeen hammer - hit/deform bolt head 5) More impact wrench 6) Heating bolt w/ torch 7) More impact wrench 8) Rounded out bolt 9) Cut grove w/ dremel tool - Impact wrench w/ flat head bit. Then impact driver w/ flat head bit. Ran out of flat head bits. 10) Narrow chisel & hammer hitting groove in bolt for counter clockwise rotation. No movement. What I've learned ... so far: 1) use bits that don't twist; my Stanley bit was visibly twisting when I tried to loosen bolts w/ long handled driver. To try to minimize the twisting I cut down the bit to ~ 3/8" - which made the bit twist permanently and round off when I used the impact wrench. I believe the twisting of the bit dampened the hits from both impact wrench and driver. 2) My new Craftsman bit was stronger/harder, and the bit itself was made from a thicker hex bit machined down towards the tip. Much stiffer and no twisting - but it shattered on the second bolt. 3) The one bolt I've gotten out so far had a tiny amount of oil on the countersunk part of the bolt head. I think the Liquid wrench did something, only not enough for my twisting/snapping bits to finish the job. I have 2 Proto Tools impact hex bits on the way. I'll report the results later ... Henrik | ||
| V2win |
Now you know why some of the guys refer to their bikes as "her". Contrary as all getout. | ||
| Peter |
Henrik, Did you try heating the hub whilst it had WD40 or something around the bolt? I get it hot enough to boil the liquid which also expands the alloy and allows the WD40 to penetrate better. PPiA | ||
| Henrik |
Well, the struggles are over ... no I didn't burn my S2 ... I took the wheel to a local welder (where is my welding machine when I need it?), who welded nuts on the last 4 bolts and we got them out without any problem at all. The fairly intensive heating of the bolts may have helped. My high $$ impact allen bits from Proto were useless - twisted just as bad as the Stanley. I'm hoping to send them back for a refund .. ? If I were go do a step by step suggestion for how the get these out it'd look like this: 1) Liquid wrench for a long while. 2) A couple of good solid smacks to the bolts; either V2win's idea with the punch, with an impact driver (on "no drive) and bit, or as Josè suggested hit the bolt with a ball peen hammer until the hex hole deforms slightly. 3) The hex hole deformation will help the allen bit fit more closely in the bolt. Make sure to use a good bit, and if it's too long (twists too much) cut it down. As for bits you apparently have to make a compromise between a solid bit (that shatters) or a "twisty" bit that may not transfer enough torque. 4) If this fails heat the bolt with a torch. I heated the bolt until the oil started to boil away. I should probably have heated it much more - it is attached to this huge "heat sink" after all. 5) if all this fails, and you round out the hex hole, try cutting a groove in the bolt head. Use a small diameter grinder or a dremel tool. Then try using flat head bit to get the bolt out. Make sure the flat head is plenty wide to get good purchase in the groove. Otherwise the bit will bend/break. 6) Last resort - which works very well. Get a handful of 1/2" nuts and have them welded onto the bolt head. That will heat the bolts plenty and provide much more leverage to get the bolts out. In addition - a good socket will not start bending/twisting on you. To mount my new rotor, I got the factory recommended button head torx bolts, P/N: CA0001.Q. When I compared them to the similar bolts I have on the S3 I noticed that these new bolts don't have any markings indicating what grade they are. The ones on the S3 have 6 lines on them, which I believe indicates high grade bolts. That made me wonder about these new bolts. So I ordered a set of high grade, polished stainless steel, 12 point stainless steel bolts from Tat at American Sportbike. Before reassembly I should probably run a tap through the bolt holes to clean them up. And this concludes my brake rotor ordeal - finally. Henrik | ||
| Blake |
That really would be great to have on video. In fact, I'm pretty sure that I'd pay good money for it. | ||
| Court |
Ditto....I've never heard anyone curse in Danish. Does this mean I can remove the "Henrik Emergency Sanity Kit" from the trunk of the Saab? Court | ||
| V2win |
"Curse in Danish". Henrik, that's why you had so much trouble. You have to be chewing tobacco, give those bolts an evil look, spit twice, and then utter the longest list of four letter words you know in your best southern stockcar racer impersonation. Then knock the devil out of them. Danish, hell they thought you were just kiddin around. On a related subject, I had posted this info on the ATC site for a fellow there and then thought I might as well post it here too. I just put new bearings in this afternoon on my rear PM wheel. Having replaced them two times before I knew what to expect. Here is what I do. I place the wheel assy. on an old rear tire laying flat on the garage floor. This keeps the pulley and rotor from being scraped up. I remove the clip from the rotor side. Take a prybar and push the inner spacer to one side about a 1/4". Flip the wheel over and with a long punch I tap the rotor side bearing out. You may need to move the inner spacer from side to side so you can punch the bearing out evenly. Be careful and dont gouge the inside of the wheel. Now with that side done and the inner spacer removed, flip the wheel back over. Again with a large punch you carefuly knock out the two bearings on the pulley side of the wheel. Again, be very carefull not to mar or gouge the inside of the wheel. Ok, now the wheel is bare. Use your finger to feel inside the wheel where the bearing came out of for any nicks or gouges. If there are any, be sure to sand them out BEFORE you try to install the new bearings. Make sure the wheel is clean and you are ready to install the new bearings now. A press is the best way to do the install but most of us dont have one. So..... Install the two bearings on the pulley side first. I put a little lube on the inside of the wheel then gently tap the new bearing into the bore of the wheel. After its started I use a brass punch to work it down until its almost level with the wheel. Now with a large socket thats just a little smaller than the od of the bearing or any other object such as an old bearing that I have ground the od slightly with my bench grinder so it is small enough to easily romove, I work the bearing down to about 1/4" below the surface of the wheel. Now I start the second bearing on the pulley side. It will push the first bearing in as it's work down just like the first bearing. Stop before the second bearing is level to the top of the bore. You will want it level but NOT now. Leave about 1/8" sticking out. Flip the wheel over. Make sure the inner spacer is clean and has no nicks on the inside edge. Install it. Place the third bearing in the bore and work it all the way in until it bottoms out in the wheel. Install the clip back in the wheel. Now turn that wheel over for the last time. Center the inner spacer with a prybar. and gently work bearing 1 and 2 on the pulley side the rest of the way until they just barely contact the inner spacer. Double check the spacer to be sure it is centered on the inner bore of the bearings and your done. A couple of wooden 4x4s will also work instead of an old tire. Later, V2win | ||
| Henrik |
Then knock the devil out of them. Danish, hell they thought you were just kiddin around. I guess I genetically am better dispositioned to swing a long handle battle ax at enemy skulls than a brass hammer at a punches Henrik (thanks for the bearing R&R instructions. Great stuff) | ||
| Rocketman |
Those rotor bolts are always tight but if you use a Snap-On or Mac socket, then smack it really bloody hard with a big hammer (read lump and not 2 lbs of shitty toffee hammer), they will give. Obviously you need to use a socket driver too. It also helps to have the wheel held firm ! Rocket in England | ||
| Henrik |
Rocket: of course I used a socket drivers ... and next time I'll use an english brick Henrik | ||
| Tim |
Jmartz, (or any one else)I am looking at the ferodo black lightening front brake rotor. Your last report was at 100+ miles. and you gave it a B+. Any new info? Also, does anyone have experience with kevlar brake lines? Thanks, Tim | ||
| Icepick |
Just found this site - what a great place! I've checked through the archived posts and I'm sure this has been hammered to no end but I have a tire question and would appreciate some input from people who understand Buells. I just moved to SoCal from Colorado and am in need of tires that last longer than the stock 207's due to significant freeway travel. I've heard the 205's are a good option but a guy here at a shop three blocks from my house swears by the Continental ContiForce ZR for a great freeway/tight canyon tire- anyone run these or have experience with them? Thanks in advance! Kindest Regards, Icepick – ’99 X1 |
