| Author | Message | ||
     99x1  |
The (thermal) circuit breaker could be opening at too low a current - it feeds everything and the alternator charges the battery back through it. From the S1 online service manual: "Since the circuit breakers are of the automatic-reset type, the bimetallic breaker contacts automatically close (completing the circuit) once they have cooled down from the initial overload. If the overload condition still exists, the breaker contacts will again open to interrupt current flow. This cycling effect, or opening and closing of the breaker contacts, continues as long as the current circuit overload condition exists." Disconnect the wires on it, and join them with a 30 amp fuse to test it. Pull the ACC, Lights, and Instruments fuses (leave Ignition fuse in) to eliminate some possible shorts. The Key switch can also come apart inside and have a flakely connection - this can easily be bypassed at the connector. The battery dropping to 5 volts on start maybe normal if it wasn't fully charged, or the battery may be partially opening internally. The speedo sensor shorting is also a somewhat common problem, this can be disconnected at the sensor. I doubt it is the charging system, but you could charge the battery and disconnect the regulator wire to the circuit breaker to disconnect the charging system. Good Luck (Message edited by 99X1 on December 01, 2004) | ||
| Shotgun |
I had similar problems with my M2. Needed a new battery. Even though the old one would show a charge, it wasn't up to a good 13.4V reading like it should be. Seems too simple, hunh? Have you ever replaced it? | ||
| Reepicheep  |
I have a charging system diagnosis procedure posted in the knowledge vault, but from what you describe, my first guess would be a dead stator. You were gradually losing power, discharging the battery. Once the battery gets drained enough, the bike runs exactly as you described. For a while, then it is dead as dead can be. 12v is a pretty discharged battery. Were the battery shorting to ground and everything else working, something would be on fire, which you probably would have mentioned, so it probably is not that. The battery could be bad, but I would expect that to show up as a bike that runs OK, but won't start the next morning. The stator check is easy on a tuber. Start the engine, disconnect the connection on the wire between the stator and the voltage regulator, and look for like 60 volts (as I recall). | ||
| Reepicheep |
One more thing, somebody had some similarly weird symptoms from a blown speedo sensor. Disconnect it (connector near the battery) and see if that helps. | ||
| Bobpaul  |
Country, I have an 00 M2 and I had the exact same problem 2 years ago while riding the Blue Ridge Parkway and Deals Gap. It started almost as a mirage of the tach needle bouncing up and ended up almost as you have described. The biggest problem was the fact that it is an intermittant electrical problem. Anyway, luckily I visited some friends in southern VA and they helped me a bit. I eliminated the side stand switch as a problem and I tried a replacement circuit breaker and that was not it. Finally I limped into the dealer in Wythville VA and the tech and I went over a bunch of things. He load tested the battery and said it was "toast"... (I figured he just wanted to sell a battery since my bike was only 2 yrs old then, but at that point I didn't care so I got the new battery), the other thing he noted was that sometimes the ground wire on the backside of the voltage regulator gets loose and causes a little voltage drop. He removed it, cleaned up the connector and the aluminum lug on the regulator and then reassembled. Anyway after that it ran pretty good. Well, at least for the next 2000 miles... when it started missfiring and the tach jumping again. This time I was home and could use all kinds of experiments with voltmeters to try and find the problem. I added jumpers to the speed sensor plug and eliminated that as the problem but then the problem went away again. I think there might be an open in the wiring harness that runs under the front left side of the battery.... Buell has tie-wrapped the harness to the battery tray and then the harness runs under the starter motor and has some more tie-wraps on it. The span of wire is only about 4" and one side vibrates with the engine and the other does not since it's on the frame. So, the stress probably fatigues the copper. Anyway, that's my theory. I rerouted the wires a bit to allow a longer span of the cable between tie-wrap constraint. The problem has not returned, but I've only put about 5k miles on since then. Did I fix it? On the battery - apparently the battery plates vibrate and grind a short through the seperators, shorting out one of the cells. which causes the voltage to drop from 13.8 to 11.5 (5/6).... this in turn causes the alternator/regulator to dump a huge load through the circuit breaker which makes it trip out. That makes sense to me but I don't understand the jumping tach? that's about all I know! To conclude 1) why the hell don't the techs know about this problem, seems pretty common? 2) the battery is probably one cause... I would replace it if I were you. And maybe with a different kind like a gel, or gas recombination. 3) check your voltage regulator ground wire 4) see if you can reroute the harness wiring a little (nothing radical) to get a longer span. Also check that none of those wires are pinched under/near the starter. | ||
| Orion1 |
Country: "The bike was backfiring like mad and the tach and speedo were still going crazy. ...About 20 miles or so the bike is really acting up and finally just dies." Sounds like a problem I had at The BRAG get together at Deals Gap 3 years ago. Stranded me & my wife. The tech from Knoxville Buell/H-D was set up in the Fontana parking lot and worked on it. Finally he cut the plastic tie wrap that binds the main electrical harness under the gas tank and lossened up the wires. Apparently there was a small hole in a wire's insulation that was grounding out. Ran fine after that. The tach and the ignition share a ground (the pink wire), that's why the tach acted up. Tilley's had already looked at it and replaced the battery the week before. Good luck. | ||
| Country  |
This is some great stuff. I am going to let the tech know about all of this. Hopefully then he can get it fixed. When Buell calls to do the customer service I'll let them know that this a common problem. They just might not know. Although it sounds like it happens a lot around the Gap. | ||
| Orion1 |
Yeh, lots'a bad mojo at de gap! (And when I say "ignition", I mean the "ignition coil". By the way, about once a year a get sorta the same symptoms from the bike, but it only lasts a few miles & goes away. It's always there in the back of my mind though, & that stinks. Good luck.) | ||
| Rick_a  |
One thing...don't disconnect the stator/regulator connection with the bike running. Do the stator continuity and ground tests as well. I've had an external stator wire ground out against the frame. | ||
| Country |
Ok, got a call from the service tech. And guess what. Just a dead battery. WTF!?!?!? They had it for two weeks and its just a dead battery. Why the hell didn't they check that first???? I asked them to make sure that there isn't a charging issue, because I don't want to be stranded on the side of the road in a bad cell service area. I can't believe they had the bike that long and they couldn't figure out it was just the f***ing battery. Pardon my attitude, but I really wanted to ride this past weekend. | ||
| Orion1 |
Country, That's what Tilley's told me a couple years ago when I took my backfiring, tach jumping M2 to them. They replaced the battery and the bike ran ok for a while, but the problem came back. I hope yours IS just the battery. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I was gonna keep my mouth shut here, but can't quite  It *could* be the battery, but based on the symptoms you describe, I would not be out on that bike without jumper cables for a while. Pop off the primary chain tension inspection cover on your primary, and take a whiff, and see if it stinks a LOT more then normal. | ||
| Country |
ok, thanks for the tips. I am going to be doing my own diagnostics from now on, since the warranty apparently doesn't cover that. Bunch of crap. But thankfully, they ended up not charging me for it. I am really disappointed with OHD. When I get home, and have some time, I am going to be going through all the checks that yall have already given me. Thanks again for all your help. I'll keep you all posted. | ||
| Reepicheep |
It *could* be the battery though, so be nice with them when you get it. They very well might have gone through the whole diagnostic procedure, and it could have been the battery. But like I said, I would spend the next four tanks of gas worth of riding with some jumper cables in a back pack or tail bag. Have mercy on the dealer as well, while not a mechanic, I am an electrical engineer, and I got it wrong a couple of times on my bike as well, in addition to have a freakish set of sequential failures that I still have a hard time explaining. These electrical issues, especially when intermittant, may have no good way to debug then to just keep working at it until you either find the problem, or the problem dies good and proper and becomes a smoking hole (which are easy to diagnose). Let us know how we can help! | ||
| Orion1 |
Reepicheep said: "Pop off the primary chain tension inspection cover on your primary, and take a whiff, and see if it stinks a LOT more then normal. Smell like what? Like the usual trans lube stink, only more so?? What would cause this? Thanks. | ||
| Bomber  |
Fried stator causes a heckacious stink | ||
| Road_thing  |
Doesn't make very good gravy, either... | ||
| Country |
I got it back yesterday, was really nice about it, except for them wanting me to pay some outrageous bill, which they waived most of for me. It just bugs me that they said they replaced the battery and then it still kept happening. AND then they tell me it was just the battery. I figure they prolly just recharged the batt, still had problems, did lots of diagnostics, then replaced the batt completely. Now it works. And it sounds better than I remember. Although my last memory of the sound was when she was running horribly on what sounded like one cylinder. Reep, I too am an electrical engineer, but since I had the extended warranty figured I would use it. And I am not that mechanically inclined, but I am learning. I plan on taking a better look at it this weekend. Thanks again for all your help. I will prolly be back here again.  | ||
| Iamike  |
Country- Not to dis the service shops but the more you learn to diagnose and repair stuff yourself, the better you'll be on the road. I ended up installing a voltmeter on my dash after my stator died last year coming home from the Homecoming. I had no indication of a problem until after one stop my S3 didn't want to start too well. The battery went dead 7mi. from home. If you think the primary oil stinks normally, you'll know it after the stator burns up. Mine passed all the tests except for that it wouldn't put out any voltage. When I opened the inspection cover there was no doubt. Battery issues are typically pretty easy to diagnose unless it is an intermitted due to vibration. There isn't any excuse for a shop to keep a bike for two weeks on a battery/charging problem. | ||
| Chris_mackay  |
Need some help! I'm adding a charging system to one of my bikes. It's got the stator in it and I've got a voltage regulator. The regulator plugs into the stator and then I've got a single wire with nowhere to go. Do I need to put a diode on this wire before it goes to the battery? Or can I just connect it to the positive side (fused, of course) and go? | ||
| Rick_a |
That wire usually goes to the positive side of the main circuit breaker. | ||
| Chris_mackay |
Yeah, I figured it out that far, but I THOUGHT there needed to be a diode in there. Electrical is NOT my strong point! I could just hook it up and go but it would probably show me I needed to do more at the most inopportune time on the track. | ||
| Rick_a |
No diode needed. | ||
| Chris_mackay |
Thanks | ||
| Stevedplumber |
i want to replace the oem headlight on my 02 cyclone. i was thinking about a HID bulb, or even a neon bulb. do any buellers out there have any ideas for a quality bulb? | ||
| Kdkerr2 |
Candlepower is good. It's German made. I run a 100W/55W H4 in my K100 Beemer and it's neat. Plenty of light on high beam. There's been some problem running them in Harleys however. Seems the El Cheapo H4 bulb plugs in the cheap aftermarket headlamps have a tendency for the plastic parts around the bulbs prongs to melt at the high beam power draw. I don't know how good the Buell plugs are but the Beemer handled the high power draw with no problems. And oncoming cagers never failed to dim their lights when I had high beam on. Later KK | ||
| Stevedplumber |
thanks for the input. anyone else out there have any ideas? | ||
| Fullpower |
PIAA is good stuff too. HID bulbs are not going to work on 12 volt dc power. if you wish to run HID, as I do on my XB, you will need both a ballast, an igniter, and a specially modified HID bulb to fit you headlamp housing. The HID is very very bright, and is well worth the 300 bucks or so for the conversion. i did my low beam, and like it a bunch. dean. | ||
| Bomber |
All -- I've searched high and low, and cannot source the wovan plastic material many manufacturers (including Buell) uses to cover the wiring harness -- NAPA, Autozone, none of the locals seem to have a source of this stuff -- any hints, please? I really don't want to resort to hot neon blue split plastic conduit! thanks for any help you may be able to offer! | ||
| Mikej |
Bomber, Check with Sacramento Vintage Ford, some old Model-A stuff uses something similar. Well the '28 AA I had did at least, but could have been a retrofit. | ||
| Henrik |
Bomber: Cable wrap: http://www.markertek.com/p/fullpage.php?page=089 http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=3682&prmenbr=361 I'm sure there are other, similar products available, but it's a start. | ||
| Bomber |
Mike -- your ford came with a similar product (my AB has it) but it's made from cloth, originally -- Henrik -- thanks a million -- I LOVE this place! | ||
| Ezblast |
My 2 front Blinkers have stopped working - rears fine, flasher a bit louder - what should I check first? GT - JBOTDS! EZ  | ||
| Ezblast |
The blinker signal at the dash gets erratic when at speed which also tells me there is probably no load to the front - what should I check first? GT - JBOTDS! EZ | ||
| Bomber |
I'd check the round path for the front sigs, EZ -- it's likely shared between them, which would help explain why they are both out -- the dash light getting rerratic at speed also points to increased vibes acting on an iffy connection | ||
| Ezblast |
"Round Path?" - please explain - its like I almost understand, but could use clarification. GT - JBOTDS! EZ | ||
| Henrik |
That should probably have read "Ground Path"? Henrik | ||
| Bomber |
ooops -- well, if the Ground path is improperly configured prperly,, It COULD become a Round path -- note to self -- consonants are your friends!@ | ||
| Ezblast |
Ahhh - will check this weekend - thanks! GT - JBOTDS! EZ | ||
| Drfuyutsuki |
Two questions: What size are the nuts holding on the Clutch basket and Maindrive gear I need to remove to pull the alternator? Is it really necessary to replace the screws holding the stator in place? or just reapply can I just re-apply the loctite? Josh | ||
| 99x1 |
Nuts are 1 1/8" and 1 3/16" - the clutch is a left hand thread. IIRC, a new stator ships with new screws - the screws have a band of plastic on the threads. If the screws back out while running, Bad Things happen... | ||
| Drfuyutsuki |
aahhhh, I thought the were just loc-tited in there makes sense though. Thanks for the size on the nuts. | ||
| Bomber |
Question that's got me stumped My odo (which I almost always leave in the trip position) is resetting itself, but only after about 2 or 3 minutes -- that is, when I shut down the bike (using the ignition switch), if I turn it back on within 2 or 3 minutes, the odo is still in the trip position, showing the milage it showed when the bike was turned off if I wait more than 2 or 3 minutes, when I turn the ignition switch back on, the odo is in the total milage mode, and when set back to the trip mode, the milage displayed has resetted to zero . . . . . any ideas, fellers? | ||
| 99x1 |
The X1 has a separate fuse for the tripmeter (and clock on S3), called "Memory" - it keeps the trip memory alive. It draws very little power, and may take a few minutes to lose the value after normal power is switched off without memory power. Possibly the M2 has the same? | ||
| Bomber |
M2s got a fuse labelled Odometer -- looked good, but was very corroded (noticed on the fourth inspection -- I'm such a bright spark!) -- in short, it was acting like a blown fuse -- cleaned the blades and seat, and everything's hunky dorey! (in short, get it? electrical humor!) | ||
| Iamike |
I squirt a little electrical terminal grease in any connector that I take apart. The grease looks a little crummy but is a lot better than the corrosion that you would get otherwise. I picked up a tube in the electric section of Home Depot. Since I get caught in the rain once in awhile it pays off. | ||
| Rock |
Mike, that dielectric grease is a must when pulling apart and reconnecting electrical connections--and it's cheap and easy. | ||
| Hans |
Dielectrical grease ? Never seen that product in the Netherlands. It does not conduct electricity by itself but decreases the resistance between the connecting parts ? Contact cleaner does the trick for me, also for computer cards and their slots. I am asking myself always how that oil like residue can facilitate electric current in connections. It does.  Hans | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Hans, You should be able to get dielectric grease at any auto supply house. It works better than contact cleaner on water exposed connectors. However, I wouldn't use it on a computer... | ||
| Rock |
Hans, this is a regularly used product for each end of spark plug wires (with the advent of high voltage, electronic ignition). Brad should be correct; most auto parts outlets should carry it. | ||
| Iamike |
I use the dielectric (clear) on the plugs. For everything else I have been using the grease that was designed when they started using aluminum wire and had problems with bimetallic corrosion. It works great as an anti-oxidant. But I would guess the dielectric would be fine for all the connectors, and prettier than the brown stuff. | ||
| Jackbequick |
I plan to brighten up the tail/stop/turn light bulbs on my M2. I know LEDs will do that but am wondering if going to Halogen or Xenon bulbs would offer a similar increase in brightness. Anyone got a feel for this? I'll probably wind up using a Back Off module and halogen/xenon bulbs or a Back Off XP and LEDs. The Kisan self contained flasher/halogen bulb combo is attractive too but more expensive. Does anyone have a feel for the service life on the Kisan flasher module and halogen bulbs? Jack | ||
| Al_lighton |
Jack, You'll have a hard time besting this for brightness, and the integrated turn signals are way cool: 16073 (turn key housing with circuit card, plug and play, with clear tail light lens) 16037 (raw circuit card, you do the assembly work for putting the board into your housing, and supply your own clear tail light lens) The pictures don't do these justice, they are much brighter in real life. The lights overload my camera CCD imager, it's like trying to take a picture of the sun.   We've sold a bunch of them for the XB, much less for the tubers. But the tuber one is actually a little more effective since the tail light is wider, and the LED pattern for the turn signals are a little more distinct. Al (Message edited by al_lighton on July 18, 2005) | ||
| Jackbequick |
"You'll have a hard time besting this for brightness..." That's a nice setup. I had looked at those, I got a little sticker shock on the cost. I'm focused on getting the Back Off module in place for now and getting the brightness up a little. I find people closing up on me and realize that I'm not using my brakes enough to really send them any clues. I usually give the front brake a gentle touch to setup turns around town but engine breaking from of downshifts results in little more signalling before I turn. The action from the Back Off ought to help. I can always add the integrated model later. I don't "get it" on the clear lens. It looks to me like something is missing, like to see a red lens there. I did pay the little extra to get the Back Off XP model, that means I can use either incandescent or LEDs lamps and even a mix of them if I want. At least that was the word I got from them on the phone. Jack | ||
| Mehough |
Okay, I have a question...my bike is a '99 S3. During riding times the bike runs great until it gets up to running temps and I turn it off. When I go to restart after 10-15 mins, it does fine but when I put it into first gear to take off I blow the Ignition fuse. Also, once it does run without blowing the fuse it appears to be running rough, almost like it is loading up or running on one cylinder. The only additional electrical unit is a power commander 2. Other things I have done to eliminate things is to unhook the clutch safety switch and the kick stand switch and still blows the fuses. ANY IDEAS? | ||
| Tripp |
voltage regulator? have you taken a multi meter to it? it could be something easy to fix. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Dang. I should have kept my service manual for my tuber (I sent it to the guy that bought my bike). That's one for "stump the chumps". If that fuse is blowing, something on there is shorting. I can think of only two things "changing" when you go to first, the neutral light and the sidestand kill switch. The light is going off, not on, so I would probably start with the kill switch circuit. | ||
| Jrod |
Need help, tryin to change the headlights on a 03 xb 9s. What do I have to do? It seems like I have to take off everything but thought I would ask before I destroy my bike. Also on other thing, I was wondering if anyone has wired their lights so that when you put the brights on both lights come on. Thanks for your time and help. | ||
| Reepicheep |
You can wire both to come on, but whispers that might be from the factory suggest that you will then eventually melt the housing. Not right away, but eventually. I put in the euro parking bulb in there, and forget what all I had to take off, so it could not have been *that* bad a job, otherwise I would remember... | ||
| Rick_a |
All you have to do is bypass the switch and connect that lead directly to the hot wire. | ||
| Buellistic |
ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS DEPRESS THE "PASSING LAMP SWITCH" on the left handlebar(of course you have to have the headlamp switch in low beam position) ... In BUELLing LaFayette |
