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Bartimus
| | Posted on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 12:27 am: | 
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Josh, I don't mean to offend you, nor do I wish to force you to see things my way. I am just stating what I feel, due to my experiences in the past.
As an american, it is your free right to question my patriotism. As a fellow Jarhead, you should understand where I'm coming from.
I do love my country and still love it despite it's flaws. I wouldn't have put my life on the line through two wars and 22 years if I didn't.
I don't see why I should be expected to purchase what I perceive as an inferior product just because it is made, or assembled here.
Just out of curiosity, were your Fords made in America, or Canada? How many parts were made in America, or elsewhere? Where does the starter come from? Do you only put gas from America in it, or do you use oil from the middle east?
Where does you Television come from? Your camera? Your DVD player? Your cell phone? your clothes? are they ALL made in America?
Do you really insure EVERYTHING you buy is made in America?
(Message edited by bartimus on September 21, 2012) |
Bartimus
| | Posted on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 03:19 am: |
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" I seemed to remember reading about how they would ship vehicles over here without tires on them so they could put "made in USA" stickers on them or something like that"
Perhaps you should stick to facts, "something like that" isn't that believable.
I would think they would be able to produce more than a half million vehicles if they were just bolting tires on them...
Nissan has quite a commitment here in the states:
Nissan has three production plants in the United States - in Smyrna and Decherd, Tennessee, and Canton, Mississippi. Production at Nissan's Smyrna Plant began in June 1983. The vehicle assembly plant has an annual production capacity of 550,000 vehicles and represents a capital investment of $2.5 billion. The plant produces the Nissan Altima, Nissan Maxima, Nissan Xterra, Nissan Frontier and Nissan Pathfinder, and Infiniti JX.
The vehicle assembly plant in Canton, Mississippi, began producing vehicles in May 2003. The plant now produces the Nissan Altima, Nissan Armada, Nissan Titan and NV Utility and Passenger Vans. The plant has an annual production capacity of 450,000 vehicles.
Nissan's powertrain assembly plant in Decherd, Tennessee, began production in May 1997. Today the plant manufactures all the engines for the complete lineup of Nissan and Infiniti vehicles produced in the U.S. The plant also forges crankshafts, and cylinder block casting.
Nissan North America - Smyrna
983 Nissan Drive
Smyrna, TN 37167
Phone: (615) 459-1400
Nissan North America - Canton
300 Nissan Drive
Canton, MS 39046
Phone: (601) 855-6010
Nissan North America - Decherd
520 Nissan Powertrain Drive
Decherd, TN 37324
Phone: (931) 962-5000
Pretty sure they are serious about customer satisfaction also:
Nissan Technical Center North America
Nissan Technical Center North America (NTCNA) is responsible for blending technology and engineering to create cars that deliver total customer satisfaction. This process involves interaction and cooperation among all technical departments, which results in "total vehicle development."
NTCNA has a proving ground facility located on 3,050 acres in Stanfield, Arizona. Arizona's low desert terrain provides NTCNA with an ideal environment to test Nissan vehicles for hot weather, heat durability, engine cooling and air conditioner performance. The NTCNA proving ground also features a 5.7 mile high-speed oval and four individual road courses designed to test vehicle durability, reliability, and ride comfort.
NTCNA employs over 575 people and represents an investment of $118.8 million. NTCNA has operations at the following locations:
¡öNTCNA Headquarters¨CFarmington Hills, MI
¡öVehicle Performance Development Center¨CLos Angeles, CA
¡öNissan North America¨CSmyrna, TN
¡öProving Grounds¨CStanfield, AZ
¡öFuel Cell Research¨CSacramento, CA
Nissan Technical Center North America
39001 Sunrise Drive
P.O. Box 9200
Farmington Hills, MI 48333-9200
Phone: (248) 488-4123
Fax: (248) 488-3901
With Three factories, and a few R&D offices spread out around the country, I'm sure they pay their share of state, and Federal taxes.
I'm not saying Nissan is any better than any other vehicle, just pointing out FACTS as opposed to gossip.
CJ apparently was a good american, and bought a great vehicle that is dependable, reliable, and of course, IS MADE IN AMERICA |
Bartimus
| | Posted on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 03:22 am: |
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If it's any consolation, here are 5 of my "american" vehicles, oh, and one jap bike, built in Ohio...
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Thejosh
| | Posted on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 08:11 am: |
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The only reason Nissan is in the state was to avoid tariffs. They're just waiting us out. Do you think they'll stay when our auto industry tanks again? No. They did the same thing with bikes. I had a Honda shadow that was "made in the USA" couldn't tell you which part, but it was enough to get the label.....oh and it was a turd. I've never had a bike with so many problems. Parts would fall off, bike would start leaking all kinds of fluids, needed fork seals once a year. Needless to say got rid of it and stopped listening to the stigma.
Nissan is a Japanese brand. I don't care where they set up. |
Agfish18
| | Posted on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 10:01 am: |
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Syonyk- Never once did I say that an engine rebuild was general maintenance. I said I had my engine rebuilt because I neglected to perform the general maintenance as I should have done. I have no doubt in my mind that my car's engine would have lasted much, much longer had I kept up with the maintenance in the first place. Now that the engine has been re-built, I am taking better care of it, it still doesnt get driven much, but it is getting regular oil changes, and checkups per the manual now regardless of how often it is driven.
I dont have a problem with Japanese cars, or American cars. When I buy my next vehicle I will buy one with a reliable track record as far as maintenance and dependability go. I dont go through cars every 2 years like most people. I have had my current vehicle since 2004 and plan on having it for at least another year or so... |
Bartimus
| | Posted on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 12:54 pm: |
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Once again Josh, you are just babbling bullshit without no FACTS to substantiate your claims.
In response to your claims that Nissan is here only because of Tariffs:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/05/business/the-iec onomy-nissans-move-to-us-offers-lessons-for-tech-i ndustry.html?pagewanted=all&_moc.semityn.www
"President Carter had told all the U.S. governors to go to Japan and persuade the Japanese to make in the U.S. what they sell in the U.S.”
"In the fall of 1980, Congress held hearings to limit Japanese imports. With tensions running high, Nissan announced plans for the $300 million assembly plant in Smyrna. That gave the company a head start in circumventing looming restrictions. In May 1981, Japan agreed to limit exports to America to 1.68 million cars annually, a 7 percent reduction from a year earlier. In addition, the United States imposed a 25 percent tax on imported pickup trucks."
The reasoning here was NOT to limit the influx of reliable Japanese vehicles, but to INCREASE American manufacturing, and thereby increase JOBS, in America
Very interesting here:
"Early on, Nissan guarded against quality concerns by not relying on parts from American suppliers. Most components were either shipped from Japan or produced by Japanese companies that set up operations nearby. “We felt sourcing parts in the U.S. wouldn’t allow us to make cars in our own way,” said Mr. Imazu, the Nissan manufacturing executive."
By 1985, Nissan was confident enough about the quality that it added passenger cars to Smyrna’s assembly lines. Gradually, American parts makers were allowed to bid on supply contracts. Even that came amid arm-twisting by Congress, which passed a law in 1992 requiring auto makers to inform consumers of the percentage of parts in United States-made cars that came from North America, Asia or elsewhere."
It's a shame they couldn't even trust american parts suppliers to provide quality parts!
As for your FORD being so reliable:
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/b est-cars-blog/2011/10/Fords_Reliability_Ratings_Sl ip_in_Consumer_Reports_Survey/
"Until recently, Ford has been regarded as one of the more reliable American automakers, performing well in Consumer Reports reliability surveys that were dominated by competitors such as Honda and Toyota. However, in its most recent survey of 1.3 million vehicles owned or leased by Consumer Reports subscribers, the publication found that three of Ford’s new models caused the automaker’s reliability rating to slip.
“The new Explorer, Fiesta, and Focus all had below-average reliability in their first year,” writes Consumer Reports in a press release. “As a result, Ford’s overall reliability rank among 28 major car makes slipped from the 10th to the 20th spot this year—the biggest drop for any major nameplate in Consumer Reports 2011 Annual Auto Survey.”
Consumer Reports notes that new models often have reliability issues. “We have often found that new or revamped models have more problems in their first year than in subsequent model years,” says David Champion, senior director of Consumer Reports’ automotive test center. “Ford’s problems illustrate why we recommend to our subscribers to hold off buying a first-year model.”
General Motors also took a hit in the publication’s survey. Falling six spots each, Buick and Cadillac brands fell to 24th and 25th place, respectively. The Buick LaCrosse, all-wheel drive Buick Enclave and the Cadillac SRX were all considered reliable last year, but now fell to below-average ratings.
However, not all domestic automakers suffered in the latest survey. “Jeep moved up seven spots to 13, becoming the most reliable domestic brand,” notes Autoweek. “Chrysler moved up 12 spots on the list, but its ranking was based on just two models: the 200 sedan (formerly the Sebring), which ranked well above average, and the Town & Country minivan, which received poor ratings.”
Predictably, top honors for reliability were earned by Japanese brands. “Taking the top nine spots in the magazine’s Annual Auto Reliability Survey, released on Tuesday afternoon, were Toyota’s youth-oriented Scion brand, which led the pack, followed by Lexus, Acura, Mazda, Honda, Toyota, Infiniti, Subaru and Nissan,” says The New York Times. “Of the 91 Japanese models for which Consumer Reports had sufficient data, 96 percent received ratings of Average or Much Better than Average in predicted reliability.”
As for your issues with your Honda Shadow, Obviously, you must be one of those idiots that abuse your bikes, or have no idea what to look for, when buying a used bike.
Honda's reliability records stands as tall is Iwo jima. VERY few people have EVER complained about ANY issues with a Honda motorcycles reliability. Except maybe a few idiots who know nothing, and are just talking $hit.
Just for $hits and grins, I did a search for Shadow reliability issues:
couldn't find much on the Shadow forum:
http://www.hondashadow.net/forum/53-general-discus sion/
nothing here:
http://www.epinions.com/reviews/2000_Honda_Shadow_ Spirit
This salesman sounds like you, again, no facts to substantiate his claim:
http://www.fireblades.org/forums/honda-cruisers/57 649-vtx1800-valve-train-issues.html
I'm not a Honda guy, or a Nissan guy. I'm a BUELL guy. Not so much because it's assembled in America, but because the bike does what I want it to do, and I was passionate about Eriks vision.
the man is a class act.
You are welcome to your worthless opinion. That is what makes this country so great.
But don't try cramming it down others throats.
A little advice: It is best to remain quiet and thought a fool, then to speak, and remove ALL doubt... |
Thejosh
| | Posted on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 03:56 pm: |
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First of all I dont recall starting any name calling. Just saying I wasnt one of those individuals that believe that jap shit is sooooo awesome. I have never had any problem with any of the fords that I owned or maybe you were one of those idiots that doesnt know how to drive a real truck so you settled for a little jap truck. Or maybe youre one of those retards that believes whatever he reads. Or maybe, just maybe you like to talk all big on an internet forum because you have small nuts? |
Agfish18
| | Posted on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 05:13 pm: |
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sooo... on another note, anyone doing any riding this weekend? |
Bartimus
| | Posted on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 07:17 pm: |
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Adam, the 6th and 7th some of us are riding 191 again...
So Josh,
Once again, words spew out of your mouth with nothing to support them.
"Just saying I wasnt one of those individuals that believe that jap shit is sooooo awesome"
Do you have anything to support WHY jap vehicles, or shit, is NOT awesome? There is a ton of factual information above proving that Jap crap is, in fact, pretty awesome, when compared to the "crap" coming out of american factories.
You sound like a Hardley rider.
When asked why they bought a Hardley, they say, "because it's a Hardley". Not because it makes alot of horsepower, or because it handles so well, or even because it's such an awesome vehicle. Simply put, nothing can stand up to the awesomeness of owning a Hardley. I suppose you hate Chevy and Dodge also, because they aren't made by Ford.
Remember, a Ford is Jap Crap. It's just a Fuched over rebuilt Datsun...
"I have never had any problem with any of the fords that I owned or maybe you were one of those idiots that doesnt know how to drive a real truck so you settled for a little jap truck"
You must be one of the few, the proud, the Ford owners who refuse to admit their trucks have problems.
I really don't know how to drive a truck, american or Jap, because I choose to ride motorcycles. So for once, you could be stating a fact.
"Or maybe youre one of those retards that believes whatever he reads"
No, but obviously, YOU ARE, since you post nonsense with nothing factual to back up your claims, other than crap you read, or heard from Joe blow.
"Or maybe, just maybe you like to talk all big on an internet forum because you have small nuts?"
Finally, another fact. I do have small nuts, but what I want to know is, why are you looking at my nuts?
You one of those guys that prefer Steve over Eve? |
Thejosh
| | Posted on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 07:45 pm: |
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And once again you continue to spew shit out of your mouth, like I said, you act tough in front of a computer, but you're really a little pussy. |
Daschunk
| | Posted on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 08:29 pm: |
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Selling the TT
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/21/ 694021.html?1348273732 |
Syonyk
| | Posted on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 09:28 pm: |
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*whines* I want to ride 191 again!
Does anyone have pictures of the burned out areas? I'd imagine they're already starting to grow back decently from last year's clearing.
Just saying I wasnt one of those individuals that believe that jap shit is sooooo awesome.
I've owned a number of Japanese vehicles. I've owned a number of American vehicles. I've put a good number of miles on both, and have supported both as far as maintenance goes.
In general, I find the American vehicles wear out around 100k miles before the Japanese vehicles do. 150k miles on an American car is fairly high, while 250k on a Japanese vehicle is the same. I've also seen deliberate design decisions to make maintenance a pain in the ass on American vehicles (mid-90s GM ABS system being bolted to the master cylinder with no way to replace the master cylinder short of a $10k GM Tech One computer), vs Japanese vehicles designed for easy maintenance (old gen Subarus were damned easy to maintain).
I also ride Buells instead of Japanese motorcycles because I think they're better motorcycles.
I would support American auto makers more if they'd build properly good vehicles. I think the newer Fords are getting there, but I'm not really a car guy, so... *shrug*
I think Motus had promise, but I'm not terribly impressed with what they've done. A direct injection motorcycle is AWESOME. Another port injection V-4 is... meh.
I think Brammo & Tesla are awesome companies, but I wish Brammo would actually release the damned Empulse.
I don't think it's patriotic to support a company for a significantly worse product just because they're based in your home country. Honda made most of the Goldwings in America for many years.
I'm patriotic in that I want to see American products be THE BEST. Period. Not "Best in America" or such - THE BEST. This is why I think EBR is so awesome, buy parts from them when I can, and am probably going to make a decent EBR Racewear order soon. They're not out to build "A good American motorcycle." They're out to build "The best motorcycle in the world" for the class they're playing in. And it sounds like the 1190RS is doing a damned good job at that.
Or maybe, just maybe you like to talk all big on an internet forum because you have small nuts?
like I said, you act tough in front of a computer, but you're really a little pussy.
And I'm pretty sure this isn't the forum for you at this point. Go insult people somewhere else.
Current weekend plans:
- Change oil on the 1125 & the Blast
- Replace the XB9 front brake pads/brake line.
- Install heated grips on the Blast.
- Install heated grips on the 1125. |
Thejosh
| | Posted on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 10:37 pm: |
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Syonyk, I hear ya. I didn't mean to get personal, but like I said, I didn't start it. I respect your opinion; it has been your experience that American vehicles last 150k and Japanese 250K. In my experience, I started out with a Mazda 626. Within the first 120k it had a blown head gasket, shattered wheel bearing, and a blown trans mount. My wife had an Acura Legend that was in the shop more than she could drive it, she got rid of that to get a Saturn, not much of a step up, but the maintenance it did need was minimal. She now has a Ford Escape with 135k on it. So far all it has had other than oil/brake changes is new spark plugs. I have a Focus with 170k on it that still has as much power as the day I bought it. I have a 98 F150 that has been in the family since new (belonged to my father) with 235k which also has only had a spark plug change. Before the puerco ate it, I had a Cherokee with 295k on it that ran very well for its age. So what am I to believe, that somehow by way of magic any car that I possess is invincible, or the assumption that American cars are unreliable is just a bunch of hot air? And why in the world would anyone stand behind a car that breaks down all the time? Why would I continue to patronize a company that doesn't deliver good products? Like I said, my wife and I have had much better experience with our Fords than we have with any Japanese brand. I don't take the position of "if you don't like fords you're an idiot", but I do have a strong opinion that is contrary to what the internet wants me to think. I am not easily convinced. I also believe that if we were having this convo face to face in a coffee shop, bart would be a little less reluctant to start throwing insults around, that is all I meant by the small nuts comment, everyone is Junior Dos Santos when they're behind a keyboard.
Anyways, I like the Motus Concept. I haven't read much about it just what they release on their webpage. I don't think it will be as light as they think. Somehow a 100 cubic inch V4 seems like it would be a little on the heavy side, but then again that's a lot of power, and probably sounds way cool. I think they'll be in the same price range as the EBR, which like I said before, start up company, made in the USA, probably won't be cheap. |
Syonyk
| | Posted on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 11:48 pm: |
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Actually, I didn't say they "lasted" 150k or 250k. I said those were "fairly high." I've run cars well past that from both makes.
As far as EBR goes, the next wave of motorcycles is apparently aiming at the sub-$19k price range, which is comparable to offerings from the various European and Japanese manufacturers. |
Thejosh
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 12:04 am: |
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Well, Kinda have mixed feelings about the new EBR line, I hope they devalue so that one day I can afford them, but then again I hope they hold their value so that more people invest in them. I have never financed a motorcycle, just isn't feasible to me, I've only financed one car and now that it's paid off I'm enjoying not having a note. I would love to see a head to head comparison between the motus and the EBR sport touring. Like I said, Motus has their own V4 power plant, EBR is using the Bombardier engine. Not sure what EBR is paying for their engines or if they're building them in east Troy (actual casting, milling and stuff), but I would believe that would put the cost of the Motus a little higher. Just glad to see more American Cycle makers pumping out bikes that aren't Harley clones. I'd like to see Polaris pump out a motocross bike too. |
Syonyk
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 12:38 am: |
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Ok.
I propose everyone watching an awesome motorcycle movie. Yes, it's 30 minutes of advertising... whatever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTvYAcJOx3s&feature =youtu.be
Triumph, Icon, awesome terrain, insane riding.  |
Sparky300
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 03:59 pm: |
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I woke up this morning and thought I'd take a ride up to the crest since I'd never gone up there. I'd put on my new ASV levers last night and, about 5 miles up the crest road, the front wheel locked up. As I sat on the shoulder, a Duc GT1000 pulls over and offers help. Turns out he's Chris who owns Fastbecks at the bottom of the hill. Our consensus was that the new lever was not fitting correctly and putting pressure on the master cylinder plunger causing the brake to heat up, boiling the fluid and locking the caliper. So, he makes a call, one of the guys at the shop rides up with a 10mm wrench to remove the lever and we ride down to the shop where we mod the lever and fit it correctly.
Moral? Fit your levers to the bike regardless of manufacturer or model. In hindsight, I do recall reading about this exact scenario over on BuellXB but failed to remember to do it. Also, adding a small Crescent wrench to the toolbag wouldn't be a bad idea either. A big thanks to Chris and the guys at Fastbecks, real stand up guys.
Btw, the last scheduled race for the season is tomorrow and I'll be out, hope some of you can make it also. |
Agfish18
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 04:05 pm: |
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That could have ended badly. about a month ago I got some new Pazzo levers for my 1125R... so far they have been great. havent noticed anything anyway.
Glad they got you set up.
Daschunk, Sorry, I have been a bit busy lately, are you still interested in those 1125 levers? I may be able to run out to the track tomorrow if you are going to be there. |
Daschunk
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 04:08 pm: |
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I'll be there and have the cash for you. I'll be up in the tower.
Also someone needs to buy my lightning.
E |
Sparky300
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 04:15 pm: |
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Ed, You're selling the TT? How's the race bike running? |
Daschunk
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 04:23 pm: |
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Race bike blew the base gasket on the front cylinder last track day. I am gonna rebuild the motor over the winter. New pistons, cams if I can swing it. Was thinking of a 1250 kit but I wanna race Club Sport that that would put me at to high a displacement.
I am selling the TT so I can buy the 1125R that I found. |
Sparky300
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 04:28 pm: |
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That sucks, you almost got a full season out of it. Who's doing the machine work? Is that your TT that's listed over on CL?
1125? Local? What year?
Picked up a factory race pipe in decent condition for mine back in July.
(Message edited by sparky300 on September 22, 2012) |
Daschunk
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 04:32 pm: |
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A buddy of mine that owns a shop in Farmington is going to help me do the work.
The 1125 is up there too. It's an 09.
The factory race pipe is what's on my race bike. What'd you give for it? |
Sparky300
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 04:43 pm: |
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$400 shipped from TN. I'm gonna have it and the header ceramic-coated this winter |
Daschunk
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 04:50 pm: |
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Nice. |
Agfish18
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 05:35 pm: |
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Ed... what time will you be getting to the track? and what time will you be leaving? Have to decide if I will go in the morning or the afternoon. have some plans tomorrow. |
Daschunk
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 05:43 pm: |
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I get there at about 0630, usually there till about 1800. In the tower from about 0900 till lunch, then after lunch till about 1600. |
Buell_nm
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 07:24 pm: |
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Btw, the last scheduled race for the season is tomorrow and I'll be out, hope some of you can make it also.
Not the last race, but it still would be great to have more people in the stands. Racing should start by 10:30. I'll be hanging out in the pits, unless it's hot then I'll be seeking out AC where ever I can.
The last track day is the 7th of Oct and the last race is the 21st of Oct.
Bart, I'd love to do 191 again, and if I don't end up going to UT to race at Miller I'll join you guys. I've got to see how the $$ works out, I might not be able to afford the trip. (btw, I see you are stirring up shyt again. 
Ed, seriously before you buy an 1125 to race. Talk to Xen about it, you'd be so much better off on something else.
(Message edited by buell_nm on September 22, 2012) |
Bartimus
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 08:08 pm: |
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Kim,
Yea, apparently I was poking the schoolyard bully. It would be good if you could make the ride. Probably the last good one before it cools down.
josh,
REALLY? I have no problem meeting you somewhere. you think because I'm sitting in a coffee house I'm not going to tell you what's on my mind? Sorry to spoil your fun, little bully.
threatening me, and calling me names doesn't bother me, as much as it seems to bother you.
I was merely trying to get you to justify why you feel someone that owns a Jap vehicle is not patriotic. And also why you have such a burning hatred of the Japanese.
You still haven't answered my question, as to where your TV and Stereo, and DVD player are from. OH, and where is your cell phone made?
In all seriousness dude, You need to chill on your attitude. This is just a public message board, not the high school parking lot. I'm willing to meet you at whatever "coffee shop" you'd like.
Ed, sorry to see you selling the XB, The 1125's ARE nice, but I think you will miss it. 
Russ,
Maybe you guys can make to next years Springfast, the dates are already set, so there's plenty of time to plan. Sounds like by the end of your winter, you will have all your bikes sorted out very well for the upcoming riding season.
Sparky,
Bummer about your levers! Glad you were able to get them sorted with minimal trouble. did it do any damage to your rotor or anything else? You may want to fluch your brake fluid if it had been boiling... |
Thejosh
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 08:20 pm: |
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Actually Bart, that is exactly what unpatriotic means, you are willing to sell your country down river for something you think is better. I'm not on here claiming to be patriotic, you are, and you fail to meet the criteria. So let me get this straight, your probably 50lbs overweight, around 50 years old. Probably didn't belt in MCMAP, and you think I should be afraid of you? What gain would I get from giving you the ass whoopin you desperately need? If I kick your ass, I beat up an old man that couldn't defend himself. Is that what you want, you want to get beat up because someone called your bluff? And to top it off, you were the one making it personal, name calling, copy and pasting Wikipedia, and blaming me for crossing the line. |
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