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Author Message   Jomama Posted on Monday, July 07, 2008 - 11:40 am:        And Josnow, I am also a Clemson Graduate (Class of '03). I frequently visit the Clemson Area on my bike and will be up there for most of the football games. Definitely should meet up for a ride some time when I am in town.   Scbuellkat Posted on Monday, July 07, 2008 - 11:48 am:        Jomama that trip sounds awesome. I would not know what to do if I pulled up to a dealership that actually had buell merchandise and buell riders working there. Glad you had a safe trip and to hear that your bike is performing better than it use to. Hopefully that will last!   Jwnsc Posted on Monday, July 07, 2008 - 01:23 pm:        Joe, glad you got back OK and had a great trip. My trip to Columbus on the Uly was uneventful but a little wetter because I'm too cheap to activate the XM weather radar on my Garmin 478. I was disappointed that I only averaged 42 mpg after the re-flash which was essentially what I was getting before. I just switched to synthetic oil yesterday so maybe one day I'll get to 45 mpg. About every other gas stop someone would come up to me and ask about the Uly which was something that rarely happened on my BMW. One guy in the other Charleston (WV) who had a HD Big Twin told me he was looking at trading it in on a Uly and asked what kind of mileage I was getting. When I told him I started out at 38 but was now up to 42, he said maybe he ought to stick with the Harley since he got over 50 mpg. I guess I need to turn in my Buell Ambassador credentials.   Nevrenuf Posted on Monday, July 07, 2008 - 02:31 pm:        if he was really interested, it wouldn't bother him. my one buddy used to complain about gas mileage and the only thing i could say was, are you gonna stop riding because you don't get better mileage. then he'd shut up about it.   Guell Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 09:25 pm:        who was on the blue uly i passed on 526 today? Anyone know?   Jwnsc Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 10:12 pm:        Not a clue. Must be from out-ot-town. I've never even seen a Uly on the showroom floor of Low Country.   Xblaw Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2008 - 03:32 pm:        I don't know the Uly's are getting worse fuel economy than I am. For about the 20th time I checked my mpg today and I did the usual 52. And I do not exactly ride easy as many of you know. The ethanol has not affected my economy at all. I do not know what the deal is with my bike, but I like it. I am not changing a thing on it.   Drfudd Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2008 - 04:46 pm:        You know I've been paying attention to this mpg issue with the 08's and its rather interesting, where is the fuel going? the bikes as far as I know have the same Hp and torque rating so what gives? I have an 07Ss and to and from work which is just a short 1.5 mile trip twice daily I average 30 mpg, but I'm pretty hard on the throttle, accelerating quick and for short rides I expect crappy mpg. But when I go out riding for a few hours on the weekend across endless 55mph back roads I get 50-60 mpg very reliably, and I could be burning up the miles on the straights up to 100mph so I don't get it, where is that extra gas the 08's are burning going?   Jwnsc Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2008 - 05:11 pm:        Three "improvements" of the '08 engine were: 1. The timer cover is eliminated, as the engine is now crank timed from a new crank position sensor, which eliminates the need for manual timing, reducing maintenance costs. The ECM actively monitors and adjusts timing based on driving environment. The new sensor makes 30 reads per revolution, compared to the previous two reads per revolution, for more precise control of fuel mapping and timing to conditions 2. The size of the crankpins is increased to 1.50 inches from 1.25 inches. 3. A higher-output oil pump supports oiling to the new crankpin area. The new pump is driven off of the crank, a design based on the Buell XBRR production racing motorcycle. Speculation is that either #1 is somehow producing less efficiency that the '06 and '07 ECM maps, or that #2 and/or #3 increase fuel consumption by using power that would otherwise propel the bike down the road. Just theories. The ECM re-flash seems to have helped a little at the cost of messing up speedometer accuracy. Probably need someone from NASA to sort it all out.   Drfudd Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2008 - 08:16 pm:        So who's thinking about going to Buelltoberfest II ? I'm thinking about it but not sure about it, thats about the time I gotta save for X-mas crap.   Hughlysses Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2008 - 09:07 pm:        I'm planning on going and taking my wife (fingers crossed). Speaking of which, we're headed up to N GA on the 16th for family vacation (staying near Blue Ridge, GA ~20 miles west of Suches) and I'm riding the Uly. I'm REALLY looking forward to riding twisties for a week and maybe exploring some local dirt roads.   Guell Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2008 - 09:28 pm:        I will be there for buelltoberfest, hopefully on new bodywork...   Rcontroler Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2008 - 10:37 pm:        I am in. Not in the 'thinking about it' mindset for Buelltoberfest II any longer. Already got a room reserved down the road from TWO. (Message edited by rcontroler on July 09, 2008)   Jwnsc Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 07:32 am:        When is it again? I think I remember KTM having demo rides the same weekend. I soured a little on camping at TWO on my last trip in May when 10 or so guys trailering KTM dirt bikes from Alabama showed up at 2:00 AM and proceeded to set up camp just like it was 2:00 PM. I swear they must have driven over a hundred tent stakes making sure each stake got at least 20 whacks. No more sleep that night. Well, there's always the airport campground.   Hughlysses Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 08:25 am:        Jim & Nick- On the 08 fuel mileage- I've been very puzzled by this too. The one thing I really don't get- Buells have managed to meet ever-tightening emissions regs without resorting to a catalytic converter. To do this, they've had to get the bike to run on very lean fuel mixtures, which consequently appears to have resulted in them getting very good fuel mileage up to now. I just don't see any way you could dump ~25% more fuel into the engine without totally screwing up the emissions. That's what leads me to think this is some sort of ECM issue- somebody goofed on the factory programming. When the word got out about the latest re-flash, and some riders started reporting an immediate +5 MPG gain, I figured that had to be it. Jim- you still thinking maybe your re-flash didn't "take"?   Jwnsc Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 09:46 am:        Hugh, at first I was thinking that but then I noticed the speedo error, so I knew something had been done. Another Uly owner was told by his dealer that his bike, built in 09/07, was not supposed to get the ECM patch. Only bikes made after a certain build date were supposed to get it. My bike was built in October '07. No one ever verified or disputed the comment. Maybe I should head back down to Low Country and discuss it with Mike Kelly, the Buell tech. There are so many separate and distinct variables that go into the fuel consumption equation that's it hard to pinpoint one crucial factor. I've even been using a small flashlight when I re-fuel so I can visually verify the fuel level in the tank to make sure I'm not over or under filling. I wonder if the wheels are turning freely? Another reason to get a lift. Then again, I weigh around 230 and probably closer to 240 with my all my riding gear on, so that could be a factor. I do not ride slowly, but I also don't ever redline the engine, do burnouts or wheelies. Maybe I should start. But when I recently did a tank on the interstate in 4th gear(4K+ RPM), I got slightly worse mpg. I'm up to 42 mpg now and I just switched to synthetic so I'm hoping for improvement. Some have suggested I need at to get least 10K on he bike before obtaining maximum fuel efficiency. I'm still trying to figure out how I got 45 mpg on a tank of 87 octane while riding Deals Gap, Cherohala Skyway and Hwys 68/60 from Tellico Plains to Suches. Did you make the Adv Rider dinner at Breck's last night? I forgot all about it and went to Pivotal to work out instead. Just trying to lighten the load on my poor Uly!   Hughlysses Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 02:49 pm:        Jim- I concur about the engine still seeming to loosen up until at least the 10k mark. I haven't seen a further increase in fuel mileage, but fan operation went down noticeably from 5k to 10k miles. I switched to synth at about 6000 miles and noticed a slight decrease in fan op after that, but it seemed to drop most noticeably by about 7500 miles. I have also gotten very good mileage in the twisties despite hard riding. My theory is the ECM leans out the fuel mixture to compensate for the altitude and that more than offsets the high power. Did not make the ADV rider dinner last night- Mom staying with us this week and my wife's just about at her endurance limit already.   Jwnsc Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 03:43 pm:        My theory is the ECM leans out the fuel mixture to compensate for the altitude and that more than offsets the high power. Sounds good to me. I've been looking for additional arguments to convince my wife we need to move to the mountains. "Honey, and another reason is so my bike will get better mileage. It's true, an engineer at SPAWAR confirmed it!"   Arctic_firebolt Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 04:15 pm:        I have ran this by a number of people in different arenas with no success. Thought I would try here, even though I live in Florida. I have an '08 XB12R and I get about 39 MPG. I have only seen one tank of 42MPG so far. Mine was built Oct '07. I questioned my dealer at the 1K service interval about the mileage and the ECM and was just given the usual variety of excuses. Also, told my ECM is fine. That's it. No other details. I called a second dealer today and was told that MPG is not a warranty condition so they would have to charge me for the labor to look into it. I probably rider easier than most as I am new to this, all cruisers till now. I have done a tremendous amount of online searches and came up empty handed, so far. Already considering bailing out and selling. I ride 42 miles each way to work, 70%HWY, 30% City. Most always between 2500 - 4000 RPM. Any ideas? I do appreciate it. Thanks.   Jwnsc Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 04:44 pm:        John - Are you saying you did the ECM re-flash and nothing happened, or no dealer will re-flash your bike?   Drfudd Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 05:27 pm:        Hugh, Thats an excellent point about EPA regulations, these bikes HAVE to run lean to pass it without a catalytic converter. its odd that the 08 reflash messed with the speedometer, that tells me that the automatic timing adjustment system is malfunctioning. Maybe its not so much they are burning that extra fuel, its that the extra fuel is just exiting out the tail pipe. That has to be it because in order to resort to messing with the timing system(which effects the speedo) for the reflash, means the cams are not right. I would bet the 09's are going to have a hush hush fix for the cams, if its not hush hush everyone that bought an 08 is gonna be pissed!   Guell Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 10:02 pm:        god bless carbs...   Cyclonecharlie Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 11:39 pm:        Im with you brother.   Arctic_firebolt Posted on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 09:27 am:        Hey Jwnsc. What happened was I brought the bike in for the 1K check from the purchasing dealer. I told them about the mileage and asked them if there were any ECM updates. I was simply told, no, everything is fine. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, stupid as that may be, I figured perhaps they did it all 2 weeks prior when I took delivery of the bike? I hear the '08's are a little different. I also, read on the XB Buell forums about TPS and static timing but that too was geared to an '06. The TPS part was definitely different. I know that on the '08's TPS is electronically controlled by the ECM. I do think the timing could be an issue. It doesn't take much to waste gas and 1 Gallon would be a HUGE increase in MPG. Then yesterday I called a local dealer who told me troubleshooting the MPG issue is NOT FREE!!! He even wen so far as to say, "you may have better luck with the dealer you purchased it from since they may be a little more willing to investigate, since you bought it form them, That's not to say we won't work on it but it is not a warrantee issue". I certainly appreciate any advice. Thank you! Have a great Day. (Message edited by Arctic_Firebolt on July 11, 2008)   Cyclonecharlie Posted on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 10:30 am:        Talk with Buellistic(who also is in Fla.)and knows everybody. See if he can't get you accurate info on your model and problem,instead of the dealer's BS line.   Arctic_firebolt Posted on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 10:52 am:        Outstanding! Will do. Thanx!!!!   Hughlysses Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2008 - 05:35 pm:        Jim! You bought my oil! Just kidding- I went by Autozone this afternoon to pick up 3 quarts of Mobil-1 20W-50 V-twin- none in front, none in back. "Uuuhhh, we probably won't get any more." Thought I might try some Amsoil but Biker's Travel Outlet was closed. Guess I'll see if Cycle Gear has any tomorrow.   Jwnsc Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2008 - 12:02 am:        Hugh, that's hard to believe since they had 28 quarts remaining when I left. Did you physically go back to the rear storage area yourself and check? Their computer showed they had 31 quarts on hand but the Auto Zone clerk and I had to search for it. Most of it was on a shelf about 7 to 8 feet off the ground.   Hughlysses Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2008 - 08:24 am:        Jim- no, I didn't. Guy walked around back and said he found one quart of 4-T and that's all they had. Guess I'll go try again today. Buying Mobil-1 motorcycle oil is about like buying a Buell- you have to find it for the salesman and then beg them to sell it to you.   Hughlysses Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2008 - 03:31 pm:        Jim- Did you get your oil at the Autozone on Trolley Rd. or the one over by Sangaree. I went back to the one on Trolley- guy checked the shelves and the computer inventory- zero on hand. He then called the guy at Sangaree- "Oh yea, I've got two cases". Short trip to the other side of town and I'm good to go. The guy on Trolley said they would be re-stocking contrary to what the guy yesterday said. Right now I'm doing some touch-up painting on the front of the muffler where the header joins. Mine was rusted pretty badly there. One of these days, I need to take the thing off and paint it right or get it Jet-Hot coated.