| Author | Message | ||
     Gentleman_jon |
According to the Washington Post: Democratic lawmakers from Wisconsin and Indiana helped make buyers of motorcycles and recreational vehicles eligible for a tax credit aimed primarily at automobile and truck purchasers. Officials said the measure will primarily benefit Milwaukee-based Harley-Davidson and RV manufacturers in Elkhart, Ind., where Obama held a town hall meeting last week as part of his campaign to push the stimulus. Every cloud has a silver lining, so to speak.  | ||
| Gsilvernale |
Too bad South Carolina has the auto tax capped at $300 - I wish I could pay more taxes so that I could get a bigger deduction. Nah - I think that too many taxes are part of the problem now. Individual states are going to start revolting soon. The South will rise again! | ||
| Bill0351 |
"The South will rise again!" Every time I hear that I want to puke. 700,000 dead Americans weren't enough last time? | ||
| Teddagreek |
Cowboys "The South" other than a geographic location Easter bunny Tooth Fairy and many others Do not exist... | ||
| Skinstains |
The only thing the south can do "again" is get their asses handed to them, AGAIN. | ||
| Spdkls |
The only thing the south can do "again" is get their asses handed to them, AGAIN well, at least not in football | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The South will rise again! While I don't share the sentiment as it pertains to slavery, I understand the sentiment as it pertains to states rights. | ||
| Bill0351 |
"While I don't share the sentiment as it pertains to slavery, I understand the sentiment as it pertains to states rights." To the point that it's OK to destroy the United States? To me the slavery aspect of it all is only a small part of the issue. When people say, "If you don't like it, then leave" they usually don't mean leave with your chunk of our country. I don't think anyone would have been all that upset if the South had left the Union on boats. The problem was when they wanted to leave without actually leaving. I don't know why this whole thing bothers me so much, but it always has. Many of the same people who hate Al-Qaeda for what they did on 911 will fly that abortion of a "Rebel" flag and not see the irony. Worse yet is when it's flown on the same flag pole as our American flag. | ||
| Bud2741 |
Bill0351 Your mind seems pretty closed on this issue but if you want a different perspective I would recommend reading "The Real Lincoln" by Thomas J. DiLorenzo. Secession was a very important concept to the Founders. It is (was) the last resort for the people to keep the central government under control. I am not a southerner and in fact grew up thinking like you but after reading this book it is clear that Lincoln's real agenda was increasing the power of the federal government. | ||
| Gsilvernale |
I was talking about "State's rights" and personal liberties. I am not a true southerner (have to be born here to be able to make that claim). Moved here 18 years ago - time flies. The South is the birthplace of rebellion - although the folks in Boston may argue that point. If we continue down the paths that we are on with regards to our government - there will be massive demonstrations, civil unrest, and what some would call rebellion. Me thinks we have gone too far in the direction of moving power to the Federal government, and we need to move the ball back towards state's rights. Either that or we have to figure out a way to clean up Washington. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
The south had its turn... Maybe the West should have a whack at it. Take back the Louisiana Purchase, claim it as independent... All my kin folk are back in the South, thats why I hang my hat up here in the NW. | ||
| Ironheadjay |
NINE STATES NOW DECLARING SOVEREIGNTY!! 10th Amendment Resolution - TLP That the State of Colorado hereby claims sovereignty, under the 10th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, over all powers not otherwise ... www.lawfulpath. com/ref/10th- mnd.shtml - 7k - Cached - Similar pages Several states have recently appealed to the 10th and/or the 9th Amendments to assert their state rights over federal government. These amendments state: Amendment 9 - Construction of Constitution. Ratified 12/15/1791. The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Washington http://apps. leg.wa.gov/ billinfo/ summary.aspx? year=2009&bill=4009 New Hampshire http://www.gencourt .state.nh. us/legislation/ 2009/HCR0006. html Arizona http://www.azleg. gov/FormatDocume nt.asp?inDoc= /legtext/ 49leg/1r/ bills/hcr2024p. htm Montana http://data. opi.mt.gov/ bills/2009/ billhtml/ HB0246.htm Michigan http://www.legislat ure.mi.gov/ (S(sjgu5xbql1n5x f45imuuysrm) )/documents/ 2009-2010/ Journal/House/ htm/2009- HJ-01-22- 002.htm Missouri http://www.house. mo.gov/content. aspx?info= /bills091/ bills/HR212. HTM Oklahoma http://axiomamuse. wordpress. com/2009/ 01/07/state- legislator- charles-key- wants-to- limit-federal- power/ Hawaii http://www.hawaii- nation.org/ 2009 Montana Legislature Additional Bill Links PDF (with line numbers) HOUSE BILL NO. 246 INTRODUCED BY J. BONIEK A BILL FOR AN ACT ENTITLED: "AN ACT EXEMPTING FROM FEDERAL REGULATION UNDER THE COMMERCE CLAUSE OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES A FIREARM, A FIREARM ACCESSORY, OR AMMUNITION MANUFACTURED AND RETAINED IN MONTANA; PROVIDING FOR THE DUTIES OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL; AND PROVIDING AN APPLICABILITY DATE." BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF MONTANA: NEW SECTION. Section 1. Short title. [Sections 1 through 7] may be cited as the "Montana Firearms Freedom Act". NEW SECTION. Section 2. Legislative declarations of authority. The legislature declares that the authority for [sections 1 through 7] is the following: (1) The 10th amendment to the United States constitution guarantees to the states and their people all powers not granted to the federal government elsewhere in the constitution and reserves to the state and people of Montana certain powers as they were understood at the time that Montana was admitted to statehood in 1889. The guaranty of those powers is a matter of contract between the state and people of Montana and the United States as of the time that the compact with the United States was agreed upon and adopted by Montana and the United States in 1889. (2) The ninth amendment to the United States constitution guarantees to the people rights not granted in the constitution and reserves to the people of Montana certain rights as they were understood at the time that Montana was admitted to statehood in 1889. The guaranty of those rights is a matter of contract between the state and people of Montana and the United States as of the time that the compact with the United States was agreed upon and adopted by Montana and the United States in 1889. (3) The regulation of intrastate commerce is vested in the states under the 9th and 10th amendments to the United States constitution, particularly if not expressly preempted by federal law. Congress has not expressly preempted state regulation of intrastate commerce pertaining to the manufacture on an intrastate basis of firearms, firearms accessories, and ammunition. (4) The second amendment to the United States constitution reserves to the people the right to keep and bear arms as that right was understood at the time that Montana was admitted to statehood in 1889, and the guaranty of the right is a matter of contract between the state and people of Montana and the United States as of the time that the compact with the United States was agreed upon and adopted by Montana and the United States in 1889. (5) Article II, section 12, of the Montana constitution clearly secures to Montana citizens, and prohibits government interference with, the right of individual Montana citizens to keep and bear arms. This constitutional protection is unchanged from the 1889 Montana constitution, which was approved by congress and the people of Montana, and the right exists as it was understood at the time that the compact with the United States was agreed upon and adopted by Montana and the United States in 1889. NEW SECTION. Section 3. Definitions. As used in [sections 1 through 7], the following definitions apply: (1) "Borders of Montana" means the boundaries of Montana described in Article I, section 1, of the 1889 Montana constitution. (2) "Firearms accessories" means items that are used in conjunction with or mounted upon a firearm but are not essential to the basic function of a firearm, including but not limited to telescopic or laser sights, magazines, flash or sound suppressors, folding or aftermarket stocks and grips, speedloaders, ammunition carriers, and lights for target illumination. (3) "Generic and insignificant parts" includes but is not limited to springs, screws, nuts, and pins. (4) "Manufactured" means that a firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition has been created from basic materials for functional usefulness, including but not limited to forging, casting, machining, or other processes for working materials. NEW SECTION. Section 4. Prohibitions. A personal firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition that is manufactured commercially or privately in Montana and that remains within the borders of Montana is not subject to federal law or federal regulation, including registration, under the authority of congress to regulate interstate commerce. It is declared by the legislature that those items have not traveled in interstate commerce. This section applies to a firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition that is manufactured in Montana from basic materials and that can be manufactured without the inclusion of any significant parts imported from another state. Generic and insignificant parts that have other manufacturing or consumer product applications are not firearms, firearms accessories, or ammunition, and their importation into Montana and incorporation into a firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition manufactured in Montana does not subject the firearm, firearm accessory, or ammunition to federal regulation. It is declared by the legislature that basic materials, such as unmachined steel and unshaped wood, are not firearms, firearms accessories, or ammunition and are not subject to congressional authority to regulate firearms, firearms accessories, and ammunition under interstate commerce as if they were actually firearms, firearms accessories, or ammunition. The authority of congress to regulate interstate commerce in basic materials does not include authority to regulate firearms, firearms accessories, and ammunition made in Montana from those materials. Firearms accessories that are imported into Montana from another state and that are subject to federal regulation as being in interstate commerce do not subject a firearm to federal regulatio n under interstate commerce because they are attached to or used in conjunction with a firearm in Montana. NEW SECTION. Section 5. Exceptions. [Section 4] does not apply to: (1) a firearm that cannot be carried and used by one person; (2) a firearm that has a bore diameter greater than 1 1/2 inches and that uses smokeless powder, not black powder, as a propellant; (3) ammunition with a projectile that explodes using an explosion of chemical energy after the projectile leaves the firearm; or (4) a firearm that discharges two or more projectiles with one activation of the trigger or other firing device. NEW SECTION. Section 6. Marketing of firearms. A firearm manufactured or sold in Montana under [sections 1 through 7] must have the words "Made in Montana" clearly stamped on a central metallic part, such as the receiver or frame. NEW SECTION. Section 7. Duties of the attorney general. (1) A Montana citizen whom the government of the United States attempts to prosecute, under the congressional power to regulate interstate commerce, for violation of a federal law concerning the manufacture, sale, transfer, or possession of a firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition manufactured and retained within Montana must be defended in full by the Montana attorney general. (2) Upon written notification to the Montana attorney general by a Montana citizen of intent to manufacture a firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition to which [sections 1 through 7] apply, the attorney general shall seek a declaratory judgment from the federal district court for the district of Montana that [sections 1 through 7] are consistent with the United States constitution. NEW SECTION. Section 8. Codification instruction. [Sections 1 through 7] are intended to be codified as an integral part of Title 30, and the provisions of Title 30 apply to [sections 1 through 7]. NEW SECTION. Section 9. Applicability. [This act] applies to firearms, firearms accessories, and ammunition that are manufactured, as defined in [section 3], and retained in Montana after October 1, 2009. - END - | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
While I don't share the sentiment as it pertains to slavery, I understand the sentiment as it pertains to states rights. Sounds like a fair statement. | ||
| Greenlantern |
I am not a southerner and in fact grew up thinking like you but after reading this book it is clear that Lincoln's real agenda was increasing the power of the federal government. If it meant preserving the Union, then that is a True statement. There was no secret agenda for Lincoln just as there was no separation of slavery from states rights when it came down to the question of cause. when mulling over the question of states rights, I always ask myself these questions. 1) At what point does the sovereignty end and the federation begins and who foots the bill for that sovereignty? 2) If state rights could outweigh federal authority then how does the federation continue to function ? 3) Who would be top state? Without the federal authority being top dog, somebody has to be "chairman of the board" for this confederation. I have come up with plenty of answers which would probably work on paper.........uh yeah right, time for Pancakes  | ||
| Bud2741 |
If it meant preserving the Union, then that is a True statement. There was no secret agenda for Lincoln just as there was no separation of slavery from states rights when it came down to the question of cause In Lincoln's inaugural address he stated that slavery could not be controlled by the federal government as it was a states right issue. In his speeches and writings prior to being elected president he made clear that he believed that blacks should not be allowed to live amongst whites. He was an advocate of colonization and at one point designated a government official to research locations to which slaves might be relocated. The emancipation proclamation did not apply in any areas controlled by the Union so it's primary intent was to create disruption and possible rebellion by slaves in the South to aid the Union's war effort. If abolition was his primary goal it could have been accomplished peacefully through a program of compensated emancipation as was done in most other countries of the world. | ||
| Bud2741 |
At what point does the sovereignty end and the federation begins and who foots the bill for that sovereignty? }The Federal Government's powers and duties are clearly enumerated in the Constitution and all other powers are delegated to the states. The federal budget is provided by a levy of taxes applied equally to all taxpayers. The point is that the right of secession deemed so important by the Founders served as a check and balance against abuses of power by the Federal government. Once that right was lost through the Civil War we can see that the Central Government has grown almost unchecked and now controls all aspects of our lives. The corruption that comes with those abuses of power are becoming all too evident. And now I will get off my soapbox. | ||
| Crusty |
uh yeah right, time for Pancakes With Vermont maple syrup - it's the best! Isn't it time to move this to the Backfire Board? | ||
| Ourdee |
I'm surprised it's not there yet. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
This thread went to hell in a hand basket within 3 posts... riding season must be right around the corner.... | ||
| Greenlantern |
With Vermont maple syrup - it's the best! Have you been in my pantry?  In Lincoln's inaugural address he stated that slavery could not be controlled by the federal government as it was a states right issue. In his speeches and writings prior to being elected president he made clear that he believed that blacks should not be allowed to live amongst whites. He was an advocate of colonization and at one point designated a government official to research locations to which slaves might be relocated. The emancipation proclamation did not apply in any areas controlled by the Union so it's primary intent was to create disruption and possible rebellion by slaves in the South to aid the Union's war effort. If abolition was his primary goal it could have been accomplished peacefully through a program of compensated emancipation as was done in most other countries of the world. Lincoln stated he had no intention to interfere with the institution of slavery as it existed and that he neither the inclination nor the legal ( constitutional ) right to do so. The emancipations primary objective as it was issued by the commander in chief and not the executive branch of the federal government was to reinvent the war which was going less than stellar for the partisanship embattled union. While Lincoln publicly stated that if slave insurrection in the rebel states were a byproduct of the order than all the better, it was incidental to the main goals of negating the possibility of foreign recognition of the confederacy( Lincoln had learned well from the Trent Affair) and taking the issue and nature of the prolonged war to the public who were Lincoln's primary defense against the slavery / secession tolerable democrats and the radical abolitionist republicans in his own party who were constantly waging war on him. Compensated emancipation was offered to those states who returned to the union within the time frame dictated by the emancipation in the event that congress made emancipation law. Remember the South initiated civil war by taking up the sword instead of testing the constitution on the battlefield of law ill prepared they were for it and therefore themselves destroying the institution of slavery and the cause of state rights by their own hand. You people of the South don't know what you are doing. This country will be drenched in blood, and God only knows how it will end. It is all folly, madness, a crime against civilization! You people speak so lightly of war; you don't know what you're talking about. War is a terrible thing! You mistake, too, the people of the North. They are a peaceable people but an earnest people, and they will fight, too. They are not going to let this country be destroyed without a mighty effort to save it… Besides, where are your men and appliances of war to contend against them? The North can make a steam engine, locomotive, or railway car; hardly a yard of cloth or pair of shoes can you make. You are rushing into war with one of the most powerful, ingeniously mechanical, and determined people on Earth—right at your doors. You are bound to fail. Only in your spirit and determination are you prepared for war. In all else you are totally unprepared, with a bad cause to start with. At first you will make headway, but as your limited resources begin to fail, shut out from the markets of Europe as you will be, your cause will begin to wane. If your people will but stop and think, they must see in the end that you will surely fail. -- The prophetic words of William Tecumseh Sherman on December 24, 1860 after he learned of South Carolina's secession. Sherman at the time, was superintendent of the Louisiana State Seminary and Military Academy Bud2741, It appears we have the same historical data but interpret it from different perspectives and such is friendly debate.  My apologies for the hijack. That was not the way it was intended, Randy | ||
| Dragonslayer |
Oops, I'm sorry. Wrong thread. I thought I clicked the one one that said HARLEY BENEFITS FROM FEDERAL BAILOUT. |
