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Brucelee
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 09:44 pm: | 
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If I understand it correctly, the heat/fan issue is related to the back cylinder which due to its location, does not get the cooling effect that the front cylinder does.
That is why I purchased the right side scoop, which directs the air over the BACK cylinder. That plus the heavier vis of the Red Line ought to keep the back cylinder cool enough so that the fan does not NEED TO COME ON.
BTW-when I originally switched from DINO to SYN, the fan ran much less often and for less time. My goal is to not need the fan at all.
RE: The Bandit, that bike was an unusually cold blooded beast. As I recall, they kind of overdid it with the cooling fins and of course, the motor is right out front in the wind. It also has an oil cooler which might be overkill on that bike. |
Wyckedflesh
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 09:48 pm: |
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I would not dream of running a second cooler during th ecooler months. But its a moot point as it would not affect what I am having a problem with. |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 12:30 am: |
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Dale,
I believe you are thinking of the thermostatically controlled fan available for the tube framed DDFI bikes. That was indeed created in order to keep the throttle body and injectors from getting too hot and vaporizing some of the more volatile fuels that are available in some countries.
The fan on the XB is an integral part of a ducted forced air cooling system that is designed to cool the entire top end. The fan turns on after shutdown to cool the heads and prevent the oil in the heads from getting cooked due to the heat soak (heat buildup) stemming from the much hotter exhaust port and combustion chamber areas.
M1, Wycked,
Failing to allow the oil to heat up is almost as bad, especially in the long term, as overheating the oil, especially if you run synthetic, which is more resistant to thermal breakdown.
On Synthetic oil...
If you believe everything that Redline and Amsoil are selling, please give me a call, I have some fine beachfront property in Kilgore, TX that you'll not want to miss out on. I can accept that synthetic might provide a bit better heat transfer. But there is no way in hell it runs more than a few degrees cooler.
Here is what these hucksters will do in order to advertise that kind of bullshit. They find an engine that is beat up with scuffed rings and spun bearings and such and they put in the crappiest grade of conventional el-cheapo motor oil they can find. It lubricates metal to metal contact poorly and so it gets real hot. Then they put in their own race formula synthetic which is chock full of anti-wear additives and possibly even a lower viscosity grade. The engine runs cooler. DUH.
Don't get me wrong. I'll never use anything but a good brand name synthetic oil in any of my vehicles, but claiming a 20-50oF cooler running engine is utter hogwash. |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 12:37 am: |
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quote:As mentioned in the preceding paragraph, the more rapid oil flow of these lower-viscosity synthetics contributes significantly to the efficient transfer and dissipation of heat."
A lower viscosity conventional oil will do exactly the same. Snake oil slick willy sales tactics.
They disgust me.
Also, a 10% improvement in thermal conductivity of the engine oil, will in no way result in a 10% drop in engine temperature. It could very well result in no discernable decrease in engine temperature.
More slick willy hucksterism and false innuendo. Disgusting. |
Buelliedan
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 08:12 am: |
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I warned you guys!! |
Fatpony
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 08:28 am: |
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I can tell you my "First Hand". I've got a digital led thermo dipstick in my 02 FDX, after a good long ride of an hour or so, the reading was almost always 230-240F. Changed to the HD Syn and now NEVER has been higher than 227, mostly in the 2teens. I know the thermo is fairly good cause the bike lives in my den, I can walk over and check the room temp by the thermo on the wall and it matches the dipstick reading. I run HD syn in my X1 and XB9. Have Mobil One in my Busa and since swapping it out for the Dino Hondastuff I use to run in it, the temp gauge reads lower. Does that little of a temp diff matter? Prob not, but it makes me feel better. Kinda like a Colt under the mattress. |
U4euh
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 08:37 am: |
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Fan= good conversation starter about Buell. Cooler motor=longer life motor.
Motor life=
Imagine you guys in the hotter climates have to try a little harder to keep'um cool. Let us know if the right side scoop does any thing for you.(?) |
Buellman39
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 09:13 am: |
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Thankyou Blake!!!!!!!!!!!
The fans is there for a reason LEAVE IT THERE |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 09:44 am: |
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"The fans is there for a reason LEAVE IT THERE"
Well, for the second time, I never said that I was taking the fan off. However, if the mods I make eliminate the need for the fan to come on at all, then it stands to reason that the back cylinder is staying cool enough to not need the extra help upon shut down.
I cannot help but think that this is a good thing.
Back to Blake's comments about syn oil temps, there is no doubt in my mind that the syn oil runs cooler, as my bike's fan tells me (it used to run while I was riding, until I switched to syn oil). Now, it only comes on after shut down and not always then,
I will do some digging on this to get a more objective view on the matter (ie not from an oil seller). |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 10:00 am: |
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User test for oil temp in an air cooled bike
http://ironcyclesinc.crosswinds.net/oil/oiltest.html |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 03:16 pm: |
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Bruce,
Please read that report critically. If you do you will find its reported results are not credible.
Hint #1:
"Outside Temperature for Day 1: 88oF
"Outside Temperature for Day 2: 98oF
Hint #2:
Engine run with W60 oil produces more HP than with W50 oil.
Please don't buy into it. It is snake oil hucksterism.
A couple degrees okay maybe even ten degrees, though I doubt it. Absolutely no way 20 or 50 degrees F difference, not for oils of equal viscosity.
Michael (Fatpony),
When did you start using the synthetic in your FDX?
I can't believe I'm arguing against the benefits of synthetic oil. LOL. Synthetic oil offers MANY benefits, and they are substantial, but significantly lowering engine temperature is not one of them, not for an oil with the same viscosity.
FYI: Racers often run lighter viscosity oil in order to reduce the parasitic losses imparted by any viscous lubricant. There is absolutely no way that a more viscous engine oil will allow an engine to produce more HP than with a less viscous oil. That is like saying that it is easier to slide over a film of hot tar than melting ice (water).
Dan,
Don't you know it brother! ![: ]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif)
What gets me is that some of these oil hucksters actually have a very good product, which makes their hucksterism all the more irritating.
If Mobil-1 don't claim it about their synthetic, then it probably ain't true. Here's what Mobil-1 says about the benefits of synthetic engine oil:
quote:What makes synthetic oil superior to conventional oil?
Historically, conventional oils lack the performance of synthetic oils in the areas of low-temperature performance and high-temperature oxidation stability. Conventional motor oil is made up of an inconsistent mixture of long and short chains of carbon and hydrogen atoms. In the extreme heat of an engine, short-chain molecules can evaporate, and unstable molecules can oxidize and break down. Conventional oils also contain much greater amounts of impurities, such as sulfur, reactive and unstable hydrocarbons, and other undesirable contaminants that cannot be completely removed by conventional refining of crude oil.
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Brucelee
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 07:02 pm: |
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Blake, I would respectfully disagree with you on this point, simply because my experience in switching from DINO to SYN on two different bikes tells me otherwise. In both cases, cooling fan use was cut dramatically when the switch ocurred.
In the first bike (2002 Ninja) the temp gauge and fan clearly told the story. In the second case, the XB, the cooling fan is the indicator.
Sorry but it must have been oil as I changed nothing else about the bikes. |
Fatpony
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 09:18 pm: |
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Blake. I changed to HD Syn when the Co. came out with it a year or so back. The only other diff I can see, besides the few degrees of temp,is the larger size of oil spot under primary.I figure thats from the syn staying "thinner" than the dino. I've always run Castrol full syn in my Olds Aurora since it came in it new in 96. My XB dosen't run the fan as long either but that may be more a mater of more miles than cooler temps. |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 12:45 am: |
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Blake - wondering if I should change from Motorex full synthetic to snake oil? Do I need to change viscosities if I make the switch because of the cooler running causing thickening of the oil?
I haven't found snake oil after looking through a number of automotive and motorcycle racing sites.
Is it maybe distributed under a different label?
If it makes my motor run cooler, I'll buy! |
Charlieboy6649
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 02:59 am: |
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I'll make no claim as to how much cooler my bike runs, but I know it's cooler none the less. When it's 125 deg out here in Yuma, Az; you can bet my fan runs a lot! Mobil 1 cut the amount of fan run time noticeably by half. Good enough for me...
I almost bought off on the second air scoop but I'm guessing the current design is that way for a reason so I thought on it. My opinion is the current left side duct pushes air across the motor against the right side plastic which then flows out the rear tail section of my "R" because of imbalance. If I added a right side scoop, wouldn't that create an air deadlock? (the two scoops pushing air into each other). I've come to the conclusion it must be better as is and left it.
A similar experiment with an air cooled VW left me with a burned #3 cyl. When it comes to air cooled... It's best to leave it as the designer intended. Just my thoughts. |
Static
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 10:38 am: |
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Just another guy from Az agreeing with wycked and charlieboy. The factory cooling system works well and always use synthetic when riding through hell... er, Arizona. |
Englishman119
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 03:53 pm: |
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Just to confuse this thread further. I race my XB9 without a cooling fan. It was removed to fit a lager Penske shock. Yes I was worried about this in mid Texas summer however there appear to be no ill effects. Yes the motor and all the metal around it get hot, very hot. But none of the misfiring associated with overheating H-D’s. I have the race air intake and a slightly bigger oil cooler from racing motorcycles.com but not that it will be of much use on a slow cool down lap or the ride through the pits after a race.
Word of warning. If you disconnect the cooling fan, it brings on the FI warning light, but no fault code on the data analyzer when used with my 03 stock and Race ECM’s. Runs OK though.
Mark
BTW: I use and sell a "snake oil"
(Message edited by englishman119 on February 12, 2005) |
Trojan
| | Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 08:07 am: |
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I race my XB9 without a cooling fan
LIkewise with our race bike both in the UK and in Italy. The race bike doesn't have to sit in heavy traffic though so consider carefully before going down this route on a road bike. |
Starter
| | Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 09:44 pm: |
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Is there a chance that the specific heat of the snake oils differs to that of dino oil???? |
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