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Hogs
| | Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 06:54 pm: | 
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Well have to disagree with ya there on the plug readings Noface, also ya can`t compare your 9 to a 12 can big difference there in itself... also one is not after Chocolates ONE gets FAT if ya eat Chocolates all day :-)) |
Hogs
| | Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 07:03 pm: |
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MIcombat that force pipe you got its for a 9 or 12 both the same right, and also its not the Tiforce pipe right the one with all the springs etc. ? |
Odie
| | Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 07:06 pm: |
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Hogs, it is open at low rpm to allow the engine to wind up faster and then closes for more midrange and then opens again for more top end......Odie |
Hogs
| | Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 07:07 pm: |
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Hi Odie,
sounds right what about WOT ? |
Odie
| | Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 09:29 pm: |
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Hows it goin' Hogs? All the manual says is at high rpm it opens again. Nothing exactly about a certain speed. It says at WOT at low rpms it opens to allow the engine to speed up faster. Later, Odie... |
Kds1
| | Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 09:34 pm: |
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M1,
Look in the sponsor news section and read what buellgator posted about the force pipe under the Drummer banner....
www.kdfab.com |
Dj_rider
| | Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 09:46 pm: |
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yea i cant BELIEVE anyone would drop that much cash on an exhaust, btw can u pay my house payment this month shouldve bought a drummer, also hey kevin, my loud ••• drummer is awesome, the jap bikes i ride with cant even hear themselves to shift correctly...excellent job |
Tatsu
| | Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 10:25 pm: |
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How much louder over the regular drummer is the loud drummer? Sound Clip of the loud drummer? Anyone? I just found out the dealer guys poked a hole in my drummer when putting on new tires. This ticks me off. |
Wyckedflesh
| | Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 11:55 pm: |
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DJ, M1 got his for a hell of a deal.
Tatsu how the hell did they poke a hole in your drummer?????? |
Johnk3
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 12:03 am: |
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this topic is really disappointing. I picked up a force pipe and was planning installing it on my 9r with the tfi and stock ecm. I hope i didn't make a big mistake here. anyone else run the new force pipe with good results on a 9? |
M1combat
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 01:43 am: |
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Alright then...
I leaned out the mix and the problem has gone almost COMPLETELY away. I now get a spot right at 3500 where it seams it is off, then picks right back up. I'm at 3:45 on the first pot and it seems that the first pot has the greatest effect. I'm pretty sure I can tune that out by lowering the green by 15 minutes at a time and then upping the yellow a little. I can now do a hard roll on and it gets up and goes at the "problem RPM range". I can tell that it's still a bit fat, but I'm very confident that it's just about 15 to 30 minutes too high on pot one. I can roll on hard, but if I just whack it open immediately it stumbles once and then takes off. It doesn't do this at all in first, barely at all in second and third, and fourth and fifth is where it stumbles once pretty good then takes off (and takes off like a bat outta hell too...). It still has the spot at 3500 where it seems like it's not quite right. Like theres a large (but narrow) hole in the power. Once I get above that, it's fricken sweet (and LOUD).
Here's my theory...
I think the force pipe scavenges a lot better than the stock header due to the (I believe) slightly smaller header diameter and longer tubes. I think that at the lower RPM's it's scavenging soo much better that it just doesn't need the green pot turned up hardly at all compared to the stock header. In the upper RPM ranges, I think the stepped/longer header design allows it to still scavenge a lot better. Also, I think that the longer collector helps this. I think each header scavenges better than stock, and the longer collector doesn't allow the opposite header to help scavenge as well as the stock header, but it works over a broader RPM range, so the overall is a gain in scavenging ability. I'm ending up closer to ?Rigga's? settings. I don't know if it was Rigga for sure, but whoever had the Ti-Force and a TFI w/ a race ECM.
I'll work on it some more tomorrow, but suffice to say, I think I'm good . I'll ask NRHS and Dobeck about it tomorrow.
Oh... One more thing that I really didn't think of when I was trying to figure out if it was lean or rich... The fan was almost NEVER coming on, or when it would, it would be on high for a second or two, then low for maybe 10-15 seconds, then go off. Outta sight outta mind I guess. I put two and two together at work today and decided that if the fan wasn't coming on at all, it was probably rich. I think I was right.
One more thing that convinced me I was rich is that I took the red pot and cranked it up a couple hours... The problem then manifested itself at higher RPM's. I turned that back down and the upper RPM's cleaned right back up. I then cranked the green down about an hour to I think 4:00 from about 4:45 and the 2K to 3K stumble mostly cleared up. That seemed to support my too rich theory as well, so I cranked it down to about 3:45 and gave it a go. Almost completely gone now but the issue at 3500 showed up. Also, turning the green down raised my idle to about 1300 and it hangs at 2K for a little while now. I'll turn that down as well.
I think 15-30 minutes less on green, 15-30 more on yellow and maybe 15 more on red is what I need. I'll update you all tomorrow. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 01:48 am: |
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DJ... I got mine new off of Ebay from a seller named "daninhavasu" for $335+shipping. It didn't come with the PCIII or the Hi-po O2, but he did send me a completely useless Force intake filter... w/o an elbow...
If I had to guess, I think he bought all of Force's stock of the generation one pipes for a song and put them on Ebay. I think he still has them, and he seemed happy to let them go for $335. Mark from RamRaceCo has a used one for sale as well. I can't remember what his BadWeb handle is. |
Wyckedflesh
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 02:04 am: |
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Englishman119 is Marks handle
hrmmmm...Force is located in Lake Havasu and IIRC is owned by a guy named "Dan"... |
M1combat
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 02:06 am: |
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Maybe it was even less than a song then . Maybe they are just dumping them then. |
Xring
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 08:03 am: |
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Hey, Hogs.
Regarding the A/F ratio gauge. The one I used was by Cyberdyne, and uses LEDs, not the analog needle. I used them when I used to mess around with turbo Shelby Dodges. The LED's do bounce around, at least in closed loop. When it hits open loop (the shelbys are open loop at WOT), they stabilize. I've also used one as a temporary install to troubleshoot my 318 Dakota after installing Thorley headers (turned out to be a bad O2 sensor).
Last time I looked, Summit still carried the Cyberdyne LED gauge.
Good luck,
Bill |
Hogs
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 08:08 am: |
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Hey Xring,
would you know of a www. link to get more info on that.?? Thanks |
Noface
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 08:50 am: |
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M1, I got mine from the same guy on eBay for $280 sweet deal if you ask me, even if it cracks... I got a welder and some ideas to make it better if it does.
I'm glad you got it more or less pinned down. I guess I'll get the TFI box since it appears easier to tune, though I do like the idea of plugging in the laptop to make changes to VE tables (PCII).
Hogs,
well, we'll have to agree to disagree on the plug chop thing. I've heard it from those in the bike tuning business (that have forgotten more than I'll know about it) tell you the same thing. 
As far as comparing it to a 9R/S, well they have the same FI system, so maybe you can tell us why they don't compare.  Sure, they have a different length of stroke, but I just don't see that as having any significance in the tuning process. |
Xring
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 09:38 am: |
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Hogs:
http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=partdetail.asp&part=CYB%2D7009& N=120+400237+307409
Bill |
M1combat
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 10:37 am: |
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Noface... I don't think I'd recommend using a Force pipe w/o an EFI augmentation of SOME sort. On the cracking issue... Same here. I was thinking of welding a strip to each side of the spot where Misato's broke.
On the way to work today It became apparent that I'm very close to at least gettting a useable/non-dangerous A/F curve. It's running "pretty good" even when pretty cold, so that's a good sign . |
Jerseyguy
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 11:11 am: |
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I'm getting myself one of these soon to take the guesswork out of setting up my TFI. It's pricy at about $750 for the full setup, but I think it will get the job done properly. I'll report on how good it works.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products.php |
Wyckedflesh
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 12:17 pm: |
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Daytone Twin Tech WEGO
I was looking at this setup in the recent HOT BIKE and liked the datalogging ability as well as the fact they were implied to be less expensive then the regular automotive units adapted for V-twins. |
Hogs
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 07:54 pm: |
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M1combat,
Hows all the settings now , you good to go , or still having any plms. at all? |
Noface
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 09:04 pm: |
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wouldn't you have to weld another bung on the header to install one of these? |
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